<p>Goaliedad- I like your rose bush analogy. :) It's kind of true. And also, there are different atmospheres at each boarding school as well.</p>
<p>Some kids who go to boarding school decide not to come back after one or two years, or even the summer before their senior year. I know people who've done that, and it isn't because they aren't smart - it's because the environment doesn't work for them. They themselves would do better in a different environment (a smaller school, being a shining star at a public school).</p>
<p>In other threads I've taken the position that it's harder for the unhooked to get in to an Ivy via a top BS. I'll spare you the repetition...as all of those arguments have also been made in this thread by others. I'll say this, though, in support of those who contend it helps: thousands of extraordinarily competitive, highly resourceful, extremely bright, Ivy-oriented/focused parents aren't throwing away their kids' chances for an Ivy League collegiate experience by sending them to top-notch boarding schools.</p>
<p>For all the logic that gets thrown around here in support of one side or the other, I think Stephen Colbert's got it right in this sort of situation when he quips, "The market has spoken!" </p>
<p>I doubt that the proposition's universally true or false for all students, regarding the chances being improved. I do think, given that so many Ivy-focused families fight for their kids to get into BS, that FOR THE POOL OF PEOPLE WHO APPLY TO BS their chances probably improve. </p>
<p>I don't think this circular reasoning resolves anything other than to point out that lots of people who have opinions about this question are "voting" that BS helps with Ivy admissions when they send in their deposits. No, not everyone is making that statement, but I'd guess a goodly number of them are saying exactly that when they enroll their child in a BS.</p>
<p>I think I should have entitled this thread "Do you think BS (or elite day schools) help get child into Ivy or Top LAC?" rather than making the assertion that a top BS will help get your child into an Ivy. </p>
<p>Valid points have been made on both sides of the question. I agree with D'yer that the proposition is not universally true or false across the board. </p>
<p>I've come to the conclusion that the students at the elite boarding and day schools have already gone through a highly selective process to get into those schools, so naturally a high percentage are going to apply to highly competitive colleges and some will be accepted.</p>
<p>This is not to say that an outstanding academic student at a public school cannot be admitted to a top LAC or Ivy. A top notch student will stand out no matter what school he attends.</p>
<p>Considering that getting into Exeter and similar prep schools requires students to be accepted from a pool of very strong students, it is not surprising that many students end up at top schools. I believe for the class of 2012, the acceptance rate for Exeter students was 17%. Many of these kids don’t end up going to HYP and a lot of the time, Postgraduates and students who are sport recruits are the ones who go to ivy league schools. One could argue that going to Exeter broadens a student’s horizons and prepares them for college (most Exeter graduates maintain cum laude or magna cum laude), and the strength of the extracurricular programs allows non-academic students to thrive, find a passion, and get an edge in the admissions process. </p>
<p>I would argue that prep schools do increase your chances of admission, but not at schools like Exeter or Andover. At my brother’s private school in Germany, 20% of the 50 student senior class went to top-15 schools, with additional students receiving offers to Oxford and Cambridge. Most of these students are not as academically driven or talented as the students from Exeter, but many other strong private high school boast a similar acceptance rate to that of Exeter or Andover. The reason for this is that these students have maintained a high GPA in a challenging program such as the AP or IB, and get outstanding recommendations from teachers who treat them as the star of their school. At a school like Exeter, students don’t take that many AP courses or advanced level programs, and colleges are looking for strong, balanced students who will contribute to all facets of college life (sports, art, theater, etc. etc.)</p>
<p>We are from a very small town in Central PA. We often joke that if there is a bright spot in the universe, we are furthest from it. That being said, the graduating class (public school system) for 2010 is 233, there are maybe 4-5 ap classes. My d has had some great teachers here, and some very poor ones. I have lived here all my life, as have most here. As far as I can remember, from my time (in the 80’s) until now, I know of only 2 students to ever be accepted to Ivy League schools, and as far as I know, D is the only one to attend (Cornell 2014! YAY!!!). From the moment she set foot on the campus, she knew it was the place for her. (warm fuzzy feeling) I think possibly why so few branch out from this area is that we are in the shadow of Penn State, most of the top of D’s class are going here, and didn’t even try for anywhere else. Just to let all the private school people know, it is not the name of the school, it is the student’s drive that determines their direction in life, granted, the “brand name” may help, but you can succeed being from a little town and a public school.</p>
<p>Sadly, I agree most what hwpan said. American elite colleges are changing their ways from decades ago to increase their diversity, which is the right thing to do. Where they are missing the point is that schools like Andover and Exeter already have a very diversified student body and the students have been selected and trained rigorously. They really shoud be treated as “several” schools instead of one. Well, maybe the colleges know that, but it wouldn’t be politically correct to accept too many from elite high schools, which to the general public are still open only for rich and powerful.</p>
<p>For one, boarding prep schools hand select from top 10% of the US (based on SSAT) to make their school community. If you are one of the lucky, and already proven smart, that are admitted to a prep school, you are likely to make the most of your experience…boarding schools offer an unfathomable amount of opportunities for a student to “enhance” their college resume through multiple clubs, and a supportive and motivated community of learners. </p>
<p>A school does NOT “get” a student into a college, whether it be the top prep school or worst public school. A student utilizes the opportunities/environment of their respective school to develop themselves (and their application). Top Boarding/Prep schools simply have a potential for a student to develop themselves further. Most boarding schools spend $70000 educating a student…Most public schools spend $7000…</p>
<p>It is the overwhelming opportunity for a prep school student to develop his/her interests that accounts for the 20-30% acceptance rate to Ivy league institutions - NOT the school itself.</p>
<p>Benley - colleges don’t treat prep schools as “one school.” Each school has an individual personality and the students aren’t homogeneous. They have as much of a chance as anyone else.</p>
<p>What I fear happens, is because the BS schools cherry pick from the top students in the country, after a while, given the same experiences, the students stop differentiating themselves (not intentionally) in a college pile of similarly ranked individuals.</p>
<p>True, andoverwarrior. But I sense this conversation (although I haven’t read all the posts) is about the “bottleneck effect” of a top boarding school - many of the graduates from there would’ve been able to (or they think they would) be admitted to an HYP but couldn’t because they attend a top BS, although in absolute terms, they may be more ready in academics and maturity than had they graduated from their public school. Take a step back - if you ask the college adcoms, they’d say we accept 15, 20 and up to 30 (often higher than number of matriculated) from a pool of 300 graduates (and not all of them are applying). That is a LOT. However, looking closely, how many of those are PGs, recruited atheletes and students who joined in 11th grade (where half of their resumes were written somewhere else)? Are the HYP’s really know what they are doing? Bottom line is prep school is prep school. In the long run, if they cannot deliver the college outcomes the students “deserve”, they won’t be able to sustain the level of interest it currently has. We’ll see what direction the wind blows in the years to come. My sense is that as we as a nation are more and more aware of the importance of academics in education (duh!), students from BS’s, magnet schools, and private schools known for their academic rigor and admission selectivity will be more valued.</p>
<p>I’m going to chime in here with a comment about the HYP and other ultra selective schools. They are SO selective, that randomness is a huge factor. With over 20,000 applicants and acceptance rates of 9% at Harvard, Dartmouth, etc., a lot of it is just random, and whether you are at Exeter or a public high school, you’re probably not going to get in!
Admissions folks at these schools say they could take their accepted student class, throw them all out, and find another accepted class from about the rejected pile who is just as good as the first.</p>
<p>The top schools are on a massive marketing campaign throughout the world, and that campaign, along with the ease of the common app, has caused applications to rise approximately 25% in the last 5 years alone.</p>
<p>My point is that most top students aren’t going to get accepted to these schools anyway, so planning a high school career around a perceived higher chance of acceptance really doesn’t make much sense.</p>
<p>Benley- you have to understand that the acceptance rates of the Ivy League, which is only a sports division, are mostly <10% (which is EXTREMELY hard to get in to. Ultimately sometimes its just chance. My top boarding school had a what most students call an “average” student (in boarding school terms) get rejected at Brown but accepted to Harvard. I also happen to know a girl from a disadvantaged town at a terrible public school got rejected at Boston University, but accepted to Brown. College Admissions in the very selective colleges is never guaranteed, nor well predicted. </p>
<p>Also, you say that prep school students are more “deserving” = FALSE…yes, we may have more fancy resumes…but our opportunity was 10x greater than anybody else - as a matter of fact, it is expected that we should look more admissible/“deserving”. Colleges want their community to be diverse, in many ways…not just preppy kids</p>
<p>You should also know that most elite colleges used to select the way you think they should now. I.e. HYP for the most part, only accepted students that were well off with the prestigious prep school pedigrees and good family names. I mean, look at an old yearbook, everyone at Middlesex, Exeter, etc only attended the Ivy League… However, after many years, they (as in the IVY educators) thought that these methods (as in your methods) were unfair and consequently came to a belief that this education should be available to everyone, regardless of their last name or prep school diploma…</p>
<p>If it is you’re dream to attend HYP - ask yourself why? just cause its HYP? If you as the Middlesex motto is “find your promise” you will do well and go wherever you want to. Just be yourself and listen to yourself. Don’t do anything for the college, do it because YOU want to…</p>
<p>But honestly, don’t worry about what the IVY matriculation of a school is when choosing where you are for the next for years…choose the place where you believe you can be all that you can be.</p>
<p>Remember too that there are dozens of colleges (besides the Ivy League) that have more than taken up the slack for all those Ivy-caliber students who did not get into an Ivy due to the aforementioned reasons. Many, many colleges have greatly improved their academics and overall offerings in order to be attractive to the top students. Maybe they, as yet, lack the “prestige” of the Ivys, but it will come, given time, it will come.</p>
<p>Why do you think Princetons app has an area where you check off which private school you are attending if BS doesn’t help you get into princeton?</p>
<p>Sax, Ivy League admissions offices assign officers regions. So, if you attend XYZ private school, your file should be routed to the officer assigned XYZ private school. Many private day schools draw students from many towns.</p>
<p>It doesn’t necessarily mean that there’s an admissions advantage for a candidate from a private school. It just means that your file will be read by someone who knows your school.</p>
<p>^agreed. But, looking at the admission stats from last year, it looks like BS graduates are doing pretty well at Princeton. It is the only ivy school that separated BS from the private school category though, so we can’t do any side by side comparison.
<p>I wonder how many of those future tigers from boarding school are foreign students? Not, foreign nationals from US boarding schools, but foreign students from boarding schools outside of the U.S.?</p>
<p>I know how deeply you feel about this, but you’re putting emphasis on areas where no implied advantage really exists. Different colleges break out their numbers different ways.</p>
<p>A more useful statistic would be - “from what schools, and how many from each?” People try to take the college’s stats and combine them with the boarding school’s stats and find a correlation.</p>
<p>It just doesn’t work that way. Let’s suppose you pick BS “A” because it has the highest matriculation to Princeton. But if 99% of those are IVY legacies, then your child still wouldn’t have a better shot than being in public school. Or if they are some other “subgroup.”</p>
<p>So I say what my mother says - go to BS (or college) for the experience and the education. Not for the guarantees - because there are none.</p>
<p>And there are many non-IVY schools that have tremendous academic programs and alumni networks. Names used to mean something. These days - meh!</p>
<p>Someone said it well on another thread - in the end there are thousands of students applying (from various schools) with very similar academic standards. In the end, whether you get into an IVY depends on your interview skills and how well you define who you are as a person. And even then, in any given year, a student might not fit the “mix” the college seeks to make.</p>
<p>To tell you the truth, reading all the threads about parents who pick BS because they want their kids to go to IVY and the nitpicking of statistics drives Adcoms and Interviewers crazy. Students like that, and the ones that load up on AP’s and miss the point of going to BS in the first place are the ones I’m most likely to suggest not be admitted because they have the wrong priorities, IMHO, and make the least interesting picks.</p>
<p>This is a good time to relax and not worry about it. It is what it is, and it changes every year. Don’t chase a trend.</p>
<p>Our AP course selection out performs some nearby private schools and is neck to neck with “top boarding schools (is there a definitive list for this?)” </p>
<p>And College Counseling is also really good… Just recently with the declining economy sadly a lot of courses are being cut, and overall the number of AP Classes (not subjects) is going to be going down… Kind of why I want to go to a private school</p>
<p>Our academic performance was also exceptionally good but it seems to be dropping as well ex: Math League and Average SAT Score, I know that these are things that only you can change for yourself but I am also looking at the “name” or “prestige” factor from my school… So I could definitely see myself graduate into a top Government School/Stanford - Georgetown - MIT sort of thing, As for Ivy League, we used to have more people go to those but now the number of graduates is dwindling…</p>
<p>So simply said: Its up to you to get into a top college: I mean there is a “who’s coming from where” factor but at the top level public and private schools merge. Its up to our graduates because our school probably makes it to a fairly high tier if not one of the highest tiers in term of public schooling, yet we still dont have an armada of graduate going off to ivy-leagues. It depends on whether your determined to get into an ivy league and whether your pursuing it for the the right reasons.</p>