Oh, rebeccar, we hear those too. Though D is not in college yet, she has worked for three summers at a camp for low-income kids and has been asked when she will be doing a “real” EC or get a “real” job. Good luck to you! My niece has been a middle/HS teacher (went to a selective LAC) for 10 years and LOVES it!
I think the OP was talking about going into debt and being advised against it. If the student was considering teaching in NYS they’d probably be advised to consider another career altogether. Our schools cut teaching positions every year and use those salaries to balance our budgets. Administrators try to cut teachers from different departments each year so no single department takes too much of a hit at one time, but it only delays the impact. And it’s expected to get much worse before it gets better…
WOW…so much to say based on that initial comment posted by the OP.
- Maybe the school fits you better.
- Maybe, despite your career goals, you appreciate being surrounded by other uber-smart students and professors.
- Maybe you might want to do something other than teaching high school down the line…perhaps become a professor or an administrator. A degree from an elite school certainly does not hurt in that way.
- If the program at the elite college is a good one, then why not get the education there? At “prestigious” schools, the bar is raised for students and for faculty. High school students deserve great teachers, and they don’t ALL need to come out of a second-tier school.
- Maybe you want to have a leg up in the hiring process and want to get into the best school district possible (more pay, potentially better students to deal with, nice facilities, etc.). All things being equal, a degree from an elite school can not hurt you during the hiring process.
The comment that was highlighted really shows a lack of respect for teachers. Why WOULDN’T you want a high school teacher to get the best possible education? Not sure how that could be a WASTE at all. Also, lets not forget that for many students, it costs LESS to attend an elite college based on income than it does to go to the large local state school. That is the case for our family…and we are not poor!
@austinmshauri You are thinking of the wrong thread. It was a School A vs. School B thread, and the poster did not have a concern about costs, and teaching was mentioned as a possible career, not the intended major.
Here is the statement that was made:
Wow. So much wrong with that original statement. What happened to seeing value (other than simply monetary) in a good education?
My dad was disappointed when my sister said she wanted to be a teacher. I think one of his main concerns was if she would be able to support a family if she needed to. Sure enough, my BIL has ADHD and has a difficult time holding onto a job. Even when he has one, or even two at the same time, my sister bears most of the burden, financially. Sometimes I wish she had become a physician or an attorney. I wish teachers were paid better!
@rebeccar : remember this : “Those who can, do. Those who can do more, teach. Those who can’t do anything, legislate!”
I just want to note that Teachers College, one of the big-name centers for teacher education out there and one that’s know for turning out pretty decent teachers, is associated with Columbia University, and that isn’t exactly a non-prestigious school.
I have a dear friend whose daughter graduated from Yale and is a teacher not as a default but because it is what she is passionate about. Apparently she gets that question to her face with some frequency.
One of my daughters very much wants to be a teacher, and she is only considering private LACs for college. We support her goal completely. Why wouldn’t we support her goal of becoming educated? What could be more rewarding than educating our next generation?
We know a lovely young woman who always wanted to be a teacher. She attended an extremely selective private LAC. Her father constantly told her that she was too bright and hard working to be a teacher and that there was so much more she could do with her life. She listened to her father, went into finance and was miserable for 2 years. Went back to get her Masters in Elementary Education and could not be happier teaching third grade at a very prestigious private school. Her father now wants her to work toward becoming a principal or administrator of a school! Seriously.
It is wonderful when a young person finds the the road they want to travel.
I just have to put in a tangent comment. You can’t always say that an Ivy grad or a grad of a top LAC is automatically going to be a great teacher (and I don’t think anyone has said that frankly). My kids have had HS teachers from Ivy, top LACs and the majority from our state school system which was designed originally to be teachers’ colleges.
While they have had good and bad teachers from all types of colleges, I have found no pattern. One of S’s best teachers was a first gen college student who went to a pretty basic state school. He probably would not have been able to get into a top school. But he was a fabulous teacher! He knew his material and he engaged the kids, boys especially, in the classroom.
You don’t necessarily have to be an overachiever to be a great teacher. Often great teachers have something that cannot be taught or defined in the classroom.
As to the comment in the OP, that is ridiculous. It’s like people saying to women a generation ago, why are you going to college when you are a “just” going to be a homemaker? As if education itself was not an acceptable pursuit.
@Themclos, I often remember the cautionary tale from my high school boyfriend’s life. He was a good student, and a very gifted teacher. When he graduated from Stanford in 1984, he decided to get his MA in education and went to Lesley College in Boston. His mother was an utter snob (and he was a mama’s boy) and insisted that he follow his dad, sister, cousins and uncle into the legal profession. He ended up at a mediocre law school, and now, years later, has a struggling law practice. I can’t help but think how much better his life might have been if he’d developed his actual gifts rather than the ones his controlling mother wanted him to have.
My brother-in-law married a very accomplished woman, who graduated from Cal Tech, but chose to teach Science at a high-powered private high school. Her best friend from Cal Tech went on to Stanford Law, and - following a few years of practicing - decided that she, too, would prefer teaching high school. Their school is very lucky to have them, although most of the students there are paying dearly for the privilege.
Private schools often are heavy with faculty from elite colleges, many with advanced degrees. Some pay very well, and include almost 4 months of paid vacation.
I think that there are some schools that specialize in teaching degrees (such as TCNJ in NJ) which are inexpensive and have many different teaching options and are not elite schools. You leave TCNJ with all the requirements for a NJ teaching certificate and can start teaching immediately. If you are passionate about teaching, this is a great option.
I know three kids who are currently at Yale where they are taking an education concentration, but due to it not being a real education degree (they do not offer a true education major) they will not graduate with all of the teaching certificate requirements completed.
I know a kid who has a history degree, went with teach for america and taught inner school HS kids for three years. Back home in NJ, she does not have the requirements for teaching (unless she pursued alternate route certification). She is now in law school pursuing a career which her fathers considers more worthy (I am not making this up - that is his opinion).
Funny, @snarlatron, my sister taught at a very expensive private school and found that the pay is not comparable to public school nor are the benefits. A client’s D teaches math (newly) at a different private - old school old money place and has found the same thing. Sis reported that many of her colleagues at the time had “fancy” degrees and several were trust fund babies who didn’t need to really make a living. Making a living is possible but it wasn’t a great living. Many more mature teachers stay where they are for the tuition benefit.
A good friend of mine, an African American woman, wentto Japan to teach English after college graduation. It was a Japanese Ministry of Education sponsored program where families sponsored/housed the American teachers. Because the host families could review the profiles (which all had photos), a sad thing happened. Those most coveted and chosen first were blonde white females. Then the other white females, then the white men, then the black men and lastly, the black women.
My friend saw this as less racism and more of a preference to have a certain “type” of foreigner as a guest in their home. Face to face, she felt nothing but kindness and immensely enjoyed her time in Japan.
However, one of the BIGGEST things she remembers is this: upon meeting new people (and people were interested in her all the time), they would inquire what she was doing in Japan. When she said she was working for the Ministry of Education as a sponsored teacher, everyone– even extremely high-placed officials and older men would bow profoundly at her in abject respect and admiration. She was awed by how every facet of Japanese society valued and revered the teaching profession – and compared it to how many Americans view the profession…
T26E4 -D’s school has a very active Japanese program and students have had the chance to go on two trips there in just the last year. They noticed the same thing about teachers in Japan. They are MUCH more respected than in the US. It is not only Japan. D spent time in Ghana last summer and education is considered such a priority that entire villages will save up to send promising teenagers to the nearest high school. Teachers are revered there as well.
I think perhaps a major issue is how much we value our future educators in our society. Comparatively, teachers are not paid as well as other professions or even other cultures. Teachers jump through many hoops for a job that is sometimes as difficult as a college professor. If anyone doubts this, try teaching at one of the inner city schools, many students are vastly under prepared and have basic disciplinary issues. When will teaching get the respect it deserves?
Well, it is the same as to ask why would you do it if you are planning to go to Med. School. In both cases Grad. School will determine future and not so much as the name of the Grad. school but the fact of having Grad. School degree, which is required for both teaching and practicing medicine. I never understood why people go to the top school when education of the person depends priamarily on this person and not the UG that he/she attends.
However, I am totally for whatever each person desires and can afford. Why not? If they want to attend at Harvard, then attend at Harvard, if they want to start with CC, then do it (this was my way, found the job after CC and various employers paid for my BS and MBA). Whatever…why anybody cares at all,…Medical School does not, I bet, Grad. School for teaching does not either (not familiar with the last one)