Attention: Prospective Art and Design students

Colleges and Universities A-Z Syracuse University
1

<p>I found the following thread in the Arts Forum about some art majors being moved 5 minutes OFF campus. You may want to call Syracuse and confirm whether the information contained herein is true. If it is, you may want to reconsider attending Syracuse.</p>

<p>Here is the thread:</p>

<p>#121<br>
jerzgrlmom
Junior Member</p>

<p>Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 39 Was just at Syracuse for an Open House for Accepted Students. Seems the new Chancellor has bought property downtown and SU is "really excited by this acquisition" since they want to promote the arts more. What that really means (a tour guide let it slip) is that the Communications Design, Advertising Design and Architecture Depts are moving downtown (10 minutes away from campus - approx 3-5 miles away). When we asked at the Design admissions dept about this news, we were given the "we don't know for sure what the Chancellor is planning." My daughter wanted more info. Says it will affect her decision. So she pressed the issue. We were then told it's true about the move. Apparently Architecture will be moving back on campus eventually but no one knows what will happen to CD and AD. As it is, the art building is quite a distance away and now this. My daughter was very disappointed to say the least. She had been having a great time and was excited about the program. She's been offered a nice merit scholarship to SU, but the prospect of taking a bus (SU uses town buses for transportation) back and forth every day (and night) is a bit upsetting. I also found it disappointing that CD and AD students weren't told this news. We just happened to hear about it. Another CD student walking around with us said she had come all the way from CA and wouldn't have made the trip if she had known this</p>

2

<p>Enclosed is a letter that I sent to admissions. I am awaiting a reply.</p>

<p>I just read on one of the college forums that some art and design programs are being moved off the main campus about 5-10 minute bus ride away. </p>

<p>I have to say that, as a parent of a prospective design student, I am EXTREMELY concerned. (Have I voiced enough of a concern?)</p>

<p>What concerns me is that the city of Syracuse proper is not that safe, not to mention that all travel within the city would be hazardous in winter due to inclement weather.</p>

<p>Moreover, art and design students, more than other students in the university, tend to work long hours in studios. I certainly don't want my daughter in a studio till 2AM and have to travel back to campus unescourted.</p>

<p>In addition, one reason for picking Syracuse over a "stand alone art school" is that the art program is situated on a campus with other non-artsy types. This "relocation" would greatly reduce that advantage. </p>

<p>Finally, gettting from an art class to a liberal arts class in a timely fashion can be a real problem if the art classes are located 5-10 minutes away by bus even assuming the bus will leave for the main campus immediately upon by daughter being ready to leave. Syracuse would have to have a lot of buses coming and going every 10 mintes till at least 2 AM for this to work. This also doesn't take into consideration the increased time of travel due to inclement weather conditions. At least on the main campus,students merely need to walk to class.</p>

<p>In short, I am very, very concerned over this development. Unless you can clearly show me that my worries are completely unfounded, my daughter will be one of many that will not attend Syracuse! Moreover, from what I have read on some forums, there will be a lot of other concerned parents as well. Someone may have made a really "brain dead" decision.</p>

3

<p>that sucks. i was really looking to go to syracuse but now i'm rethinking it. does the move include interior design too? also, how unsafe is syracuse? thx.</p>

4

<p>Wannagotocornell, you will need to call Syracuse and see if it applies to interior design. I will say that the new quarters are in a very up and coming area of Syracuse. However, I need to have my concerns addressed or my daughter isn't attending there.</p>

5

<p>Wannagotocornell asks,"also, how unsafe is syracuse? thx."</p>

<p>Response: Just travel 4 blocks off campus, and you will get a feel for the surrounding locale. It clearly isn't an area that you want to stroll around in.</p>

6

<p>I don't think this move applies to interior design. I was told that SU chose AD and GD (and Architecture) because they're computer based and easier to move... I agree that you should call the school to check though (especially if you're currently a senior). Decisions need to be made very soon. Great time to spring this news. Oh, that's right. SU didn't exactly announce this decision. Guess they were waiting for Sept to tell the students.</p>

7

<p>A faculty member at the University told me that the architecture school will be moving down to a large warehouse about 2-3 miles off campus and that there will be a regular shuttle plying between the school and the University. This will be for a couple of years until they are done with renovations.
Im not going anyway.</p>

8

<p>Jerzgrimom, I called Syracuse and asked about this move. After being shutled about ( no pun intended) to three different people, I got the following response:</p>

<p>As an update, someone spoke with an admissions rep in the Art and Design admissions group.Here is what they were told:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>They had no idea that parents would react like this. Imagine, they had no idea! They felt that puting students in new and better facilites would be welcomed. Personally, I find it unfathomable that the administration would not realize that both parents and students wouldn't see numerous disadvantages to this move. I wouldn't object as strongly if this were for graduate school,but for undergraduate kids, it is very undesireable. </p></li>
<li><p>They also had no idea that this was discovered so quickly. They don't have response as of yet. i I think you are right in that they were going to spring this on kids after they enrolled in September to avoid any possible fallout.</p></li>
<li><p>They did, at least, consider safety. They felt that having busses back and fourth would eliminate the safety issue.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>I should note that one other disadvantage would be having to wait in the cold for the buses each way. Thus, you have the waiting time each way, and the transporation time. If you travel to this new building twice a day, this could kill an hour a day for the student.</p>

<p>Darn, I hate this news. Syracuse was going to be our daughter's first choice. Now with this news, I am questioning whether she will even bother applying there.</p>

<p>If I find out more, I will post this information on this site and on the Syracuse forum.</p>

9

<p>I must have been very tired when I typed the above post. I should have said:</p>

<ol>
<li>They had no idea that parents would react like this. Imagine, they had no idea! They felt that placing students in new and better facilites would be welcomed. Personally, I find it unfathomable that the administration would not realize that both parents and students would see numerous disadvantages to this move. I wouldn't object as strongly if this were for graduate school,but for undergraduate kids, it is very undesireable</li>
</ol>

10

<p>taxguy,
Another thing I learned on this visit is there seems to be a good deal of animosity between the Design school and Newhouse (the Communication School). Since my dd is a communications design major, she is interested in possibly taking some electives at Newhouse (graphic arts major is under Newhouse, so is photography I think). Well, I can't say for sure but several people alluded to problems doing this. Newhouse requires you to get permission to take classes there and it doesn't seem easy to do. Admissions people reluctantly agreed this can be a problem.</p>

<p>The Open House was going along nicely, really hooking my dd with the excitement and fun on campus and then it all seemed to blow up. Now she has a week to figure out what to do... She's ok with RIT but was hoping for a more social place (both seem equally cold). I must say that the incoming design students she met at RIT's open house were very compatible, as were the students she met that live in the Art House (dorm). She also has some concerns about the workload due to the quarter system. She and I had expected students to take less classes per quarter but that doesn't seem to be the case. She was offered merit $ at both schools but unfortunately she was offered less FA grant $ from RIT.</p>

11

<p>Jerzgrlmom, RIT is about $5,000 cheaper per year in tuition. You need to factor this in. Also, I had, many moons ago, classes that were on both quarter system and semester system. There are pros and cons for each. Quarter system lends itself well to coops. Although quarter system is much faster, you also have to study less for finals. Finally, if you get a bad professor, you only have to put up with them for 10 weeks with a quarter system. A semester system is 15 weeks.</p>

<p>As far as Syracuse, I really don't know what they were doing. They clearly didn't think this move through from a parent's perspective.</p>

12

<p>Perhaps among the questions to ask would be how long is the bus ride (in minutes) and how often will they run?</p>

<p>SU has run shuttle buses from Skytop & Vincent Apts (maybe they have new names now) that are short and frequent and not really any problem.</p>

<p>UofR, for example, runs shuttles from their Quad to the Eastman campus that take 20 minutes each way and only run about once an hour. So, to fit classes into your schedule on both campuses can make for complicated planning and use of time.</p>

13

<p>WS17, yes, there are numerous questions that need to be answered. However, busing the kids each way is not very alluring to me.</p>

14

<p>Enclosed is Syracuse's response to my letter. What may alarm some of you is that this relocation may apply to a number of majors in the School of Visual Art and not just to Communication Design and Advertising Design. I think his letter is self-explanatory, but I have another letter that I sent him asking for some more details:</p>

<hr>

<p>My colleague Jeff Charboneau passed your message on to me. I'd like to try to address your concerns and respectfully disagree with your contention that "no one is happy."</p>

<p>It is true that the School of Architecture, the Communications Design and Advertising Design programs in the College of Visual and Performing Arts (VPA), and the Goldring Arts Journalism Program (a graduate program) will all be located in downtown Syracuse beginning with the Spring 2006 semester. </p>

<p>The University's Admissions Office, Parents Office and students, faculty and staff in Architecture and VPA are all apprised of the move. The site is a large warehouse facility that the University has purchased and to which has committed several million dollars for renovation. </p>

<p>The move is a necessity--in order to carry out the renovation of Slocum Hall, the current home to the School of Architecture and the two VPA programs--that we are turning into an educational opportunity for the students. The Warehouse is located at the edge of the Armory Square District, a thriving portion of the city that features old buildings that have been renovated and are now filled with restaurants, specialty shops and artisans. The Warehouse provides students with an opportunity to be immersed in a prosperous downtown environment that can serve as a living laboratory for the study of urban design. </p>

<p>I won't deny that the students (and some of the faculty and staff) had some initial concerns, but as they have learned more they are embracing the opportunity. In all, more than 500 students, faculty and staff will be located at The Warehouse.</p>

<p>The initial concerns focused primarily on transportation, food and safety. </p>

<p>Transportation--A free campus bus shuttle service will run 24 hours per day, seven days a week during the times classes are in session. Point-to-point (express) service will be offered from College Place (on main campus) to The Warehouse and back. </p>

<p>Food--Food services will be offered via a cafe in the building, which will honor student meal plans and the SUpercard. The cafe will be open likely for 12 hours a day, dependent on class schedules. Vending machines will also be available during all hours. Wireless Internet access will be accessible in the cafe seating area, and hard-wired computer access will be available elsewhere in the building.</p>

<p>Safety--SU's Department of Public Safety will staff and monitor the building on a 24-hour basis, similar to their coverage of SU's other academic buildings. During peak hours, two DPS officers will patrol and secure the premises. Cameras will be installed to monitor activity in specific locations. </p>

<p>In addition, a small retail shop will be located in The Warehouse to cater to the academic supply needs of the VPA and Architecture students. </p>

<p>The renovation of Slocum Hall is expected to be completed for the start of the Fall 2008 semester, at which time the School of Architecture will move back to the main campus. At that time, additional VPA programs are anticipated to move to The Warehouse, along with some other SU departments and community arts organizations. </p>

<p>It should also be noted that The Warehouse is also serving as a high-profile anchor for Syracuse's Connective Corridor project (<a href="http://sunews.syr.edu/fullstory.asp?id=3150515)%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://sunews.syr.edu/fullstory.asp?id=3150515)&lt;/a>, which has drawn a lot of attention in our local community.</p>

<p>We are in the process of creating some Web materials describing the University's space initiatives, including The Warehouse, the planned edition to the Newhouse School and the $107 million Life Sciences Complex. This site will offer a great deal of information, including drawings and schedules. </p>

<p>In the meantime, if you have any further questions or concerns, please feel free to contact me.</p>

<p>Best regards,</p>

<p>Kevin</p>

15

<p>Here is another letter by Kevin that addresses some of my concerns based on an additional letter that you will find at the end. At least kids will be shuttled to the campus. The bus stops will be covered in campus. At the Syracsue stop they can at least wait in the building for the bus, which is a big relief as to safety and cold. Personally, however, I hate the idea of having them bused 10 minutes away, plus having to wait for the bus each way. This denigrates the whole campus concept.</p>

<hr>

<p>Sandy,</p>

<p>I will confirm the frequency of the bus runs Tuesday a.m. and will get
back to you. Regarding your other questions, I have answers now.</p>

<p>First, I am a parent with a 21-year-old, and I understand and respect
your concern. A good parent is concerned. That said, I hope you take my
response seriously. I am not speaking disingenuously when I say that I
believe we have the bases covered.</p>

<p>The main bus stop on campus is roofed and is located on College Place,
just outside of Slocum Hall, the current home to the School of
Architecture and the Communications Design and Advertising Design
programs. The College Place bus stop is also adjacent to the
headquarters of SU's Department of Public Safety in Sims Hall. The
Department of Public Safety maintains foot and vehicular patrols of
campus around the clock, 365 days. Students catching the shuttle buses
at The Warehouse end will be able to wait inside the building. The buses
used are the same buses we use in the intra-campus shuttle system. They
are owned and operated by Centro, the local transit bus company. The
Warehouse-College Place buses are provisioned exclusively to the
University and are intended only for the students of the School of
Architecture and the Communications Design and Advertising Design
programs.</p>

<p>It is not expected that the travel time will interfere with students'
schedules either at The Warehouse or on main campus. If you have
specific questions about scheduling, it'd be best for you to address
your questions directly to the VPA or Architecture dean's office. I can
provide name and contact information for either school if you want to
specify which you'd like.</p>

<p>I don't doubt that some parents are concerned about the move from main
campus to downtown. This is why we are trying to share as much
information as possible with both students and parents. You made the
comment: "I am sure that many in the administration are thrilled." Yes,
we are, because we believe this will be a great educational opportunity
for the students. Relocation is necessary for the Slocum Hall renovation
to occur. There were other--and less expensive--locations scouted for
the relocation, but the deans were especially taken with The Warehouse,
its position in the Armory Square neighborhood, and the possibilities it
holds.</p>

<p>You also commented that it's too bad we didn't do this with grad
students. Frakly, we don't really have a choice in this instance. Almost
all of the Architecture and VPA students currently taking classes in
Slocum are undergraduates. </p>

<p>Kevin</p>

<p>Kevin Morrow
University Spokesman
Executive Director, News Services
Syracuse University
(315) 443-3784</p>

<hr>

<p>This is my second letter to Kevin:</p>

<br>


<br>

<ol>
<li><p>How often will these buses run? Kids, and these are kids, will be
waiting at the bus stop in the freezing cold. I am wondering how long
they would have to wait at each stop each way?</p></li>
<li><p>I am not really concerned about the security in the Armory building.
I am concerned about the security while waiting on the bus stops and
possibly on the bus. What security will be available at these bus stops?
We don't want our kids mugged at the bus stops while they are waiting.</p></li>
<li><p>If kids have to do this once or even twice a day, how will they be
able to take course in the main campus if it might take 10 minutes plus
bus waiting time.</p></li>
<li><p>Will the busses pick up right near the dorms or at least on campus?
If so, will anyone be there to watch our kids as they walk to their
dorms as late as 2 AM, which art and architecture kids may have to do?</p></li>
</ol>

<p>I don't know if you are a parent,but I am sure that you can see the
problems that we parents are concerned about.</p>

<p>Also, I never meant to say that "No one is happy." What I meant to say
was that "no one (meaning parents of kids) who have posted on the
college forums about this issue is happy about this situation. I am sure
that many in the administration are thrilled. I think that you will
find, once this situation becomes more well-known, that you will find a
lot of other parents just as anxious about this situation as I am . It
is too bad that you just didn't do this with grad students. They are
older and should be able to handle this better</p>

16

<p>Thanks taxguy for posting this info. My dd is still deciding between SU and RIT. I'm glad someone was able to confirm this move because it affects my dd and she must choose without really getting to see how this will play out. At least your dd has a yr to watch and visit. </p>

<p>Personally, I think SU is still doable IF my dd wants to go there. There were a lot of things she liked about the school. She definitely preferred the school spirit atmosphere at SU. The students were friendly and diverse, but she did notice many dressed expensively (lots of designer stuff). But she must decide if she wants to put up with the inconvenience of this new setup. It actually puts SU in the same category as some other schools she decided to pass on for this very reason. </p>

<p>Many kids here won't consider our state U, Rutgers, because it regularly buses kids from one campus to another for classes. My dd decided against JMU (VA) mostly because design wasn't stressed as much there and although the art class building is on campus, the art studio is located several blocks off campus, over a set of railroad tracks. My d chooses to work late at night into the early am hours and wants studio accessibility. She liked the school but didn't like the art setup.</p>

<p>I think my dd's been leaning toward RIT all along because she's had good experiences there every visit she took (3-4 visits). RIT's administration definitely sold the school with their kindness, accessibility and interest (and they followed up with $). But she hears horror stories about weather, social life, and the intensity of classes due to the qtr system (they take 5-6 classes per 10 wk term). We know of at least one student who couldn't handle the workload and transferred. </p>

<p>I spent my junior year as an exchange student and wanted to travel the US. To see the northeast, I chose U of SouthernMaine. The dorms were in Gorham, a rural area, and all my classes were in Portland (what Mainers call a city). I had the experience of taking a bus to the other campus every day. Fortunately I enjoyed Portland and my classes. But I did felt like a commuter, returning "home" at night to my friends in my dorm. None of them had any classes in Portland and I didn't have classes in Gorham. It wasn't a bad experience but I was glad I had a more typical campus situation during my earlier college years. </p>

<p>Although my d initially thought she would like to live in Boston, she decided against BU and Northeastern after visits there. Views change as reality hits; I guess that's why campus visits are critical. She's been spending a lot of time in Manhattan recently and realizes she prefers the city from a far, not ground level. I guess she also prefers the "enclosed campus" feel. She also rejected the "small school" where everything is easily accessible. But, I think she's independent enough to handle this setup at SU. </p>

<p>While tourning SU, we had to take a bus to the ComArt building where studio classes are held. It's a bit far away. Actually some of the dorms are far away from everything also. Just depends where on campus you start out. We saw students standing inside the ComArt buidling waiting for the bus to arrive so I believe that will be the case with the downtown building as well. Safety and warmth will probably not be an issue. Being downtown to shop/eat out will probably be fun and interesting for students (Portland was for me). It's really a matter of convenience and comfort level. Taking buses anywhere is a hassle. You have to factor in weather, scheduling and travel time, including the time to get to the starting location which may not be anywhere near the dorm. Art students often spend lots of hours in the studio. SOME students may feel left out of things at the main campus but other students may like the feeling of independence and the city experience...</p>

<p>And so I wait for her to make the final decision.</p>

17

<p>Jerzgrlmom, I will keep you appraised of developments by posting the letters that get from Syracuse. One question that I just sent Syracuse was "whether building remodeling will be going on while the kids are in the downtown armory?" This is a crucial question and will result in a make or break decision for my daughter.</p>

<p>I know that Jerzgrlmom has seen my Overview of RIT in the RIT forum. However,for those who want to compare RIT to Syracuse, check out the thread, "Overview of RIT" found in the RIT forum.</p>

18

<p>Jerzgrlmom, there is one more thing that I should have pointed out. I wouldn't worry about the social life for your daughter. There are more guys at RIT than girls. It is the guys that have the short end of the social scene.</p>

19

<p>Taxguy,
I got that impression too. When we walked into the Student Center at the Accepted Students Open House, the first person that walked up to her was a good looking guy who asked her if she wanted to live in the Engineering House. She laughed, said no and said she would like to live in the Art House - to which he replied, "gotta love those art students." Then we found out what he meant. Sitting at the Art House table were two pretty girls, the President (or whatever she's called) and another red-headed girl. More importantly, the students were very open and friendly. Seemed like this group had a lot of fun together. Sure hope that's true because the workload is intense.</p>

20

<p>Here is a recent letter elaborating on bus schedules:
Sandy:</p>

<p>I spoke with my colleague Mike Riley, director of SU's Office of Parking and Transit Services, who is the architect of the bus plan, working with assistant deans in both VPA and Architecture.</p>

<p>It is a rather extensive plan, so please bear with me.</p>

<p>The plan follows the premise that architecture students and most VPA design students are studio-oriented. Every Monday, Wednesday and Friday, all 450+ architecture students will be collectively in studio classes at The Warehouse from 1:30 to 6 p.m.</p>

<p>Bus schedule:</p>

<p>Weekdays from 9 a.m. to noon, buses will depart College Place bound for The Warehouse (and conversely leave The Warehouse bound for campus) every 20 minutes. </p>

<p>Since we know of the afternoon studio classes, weekdays from 12:30 to 1 p.m. six dedicated buses will be lined up at College Place to take students to The Warehouse.</p>

<p>Weekdays from 6 to 6:30 p.m., after the studios let out, four dedicated buses will be lined up at The Warehouse to transport those students who want to return to campus. We know, based upon knowldege of architecture and design students' work habits, that some students will want to go and others will likely stay at The Warehouse later. </p>

<p>Weekdays from 7 p.m. to midnight, buses will depart both College Place and The Warehouse every 20 minutes.</p>

<p>At all other times--throughout weekends and during the 1 to 6 p.m. and the midnight to 9 a.m. weekday hours--buses will depart from College Place and from The Warehouse every 40 minutes. </p>

<p>Every student who will be studying at The Warehouse will be informed of the bus schedule. In general, our students tend to be very savvy about bus schedules.</p>

<p>This is the initial plan approved by both the School of Architecture and the College of Visual and Performing Arts. As it goes into operation in January 2006 it may be adjusted to reflect any changes noted in students' study and riding patterns.</p>

<p>Kevin</p>

<p>Kevin Morrow
University Spokesman
Executive Director, News Services
Syracuse University
(315) 443-3784</p>

<hr>

<p>My original letter to him:
Kevin, thanks again for your response. I do feel better that kids can wait in the building for the bus. This avoids both the bitter cold and possible mugging. I will be waiting for your response on bus frequency. I will be coming to Syracuse to see how long it takes to drive to the Armory building from campus. </p>

<p>Admittedly, I do feel a bit better IF there will be a lot of buses with little wait time. However, feeling better is still not great. I would have MUCH preferred for her to be on the main campus. I guess I and other parents will have to think long and hard about this.</p>