Audit shows UC admission standards relaxed for out-of-staters

@bluebayou I have been involved on periphery of a couple of admissions offices in different (low level usually) functions, one was an ivy that is not Harvard (so it is possible Harvard does not recalculate, but I would be surprised.) But rather than going through anecdotes, I’ll link some colleges that explicitly state they recalculate.

I thought this was pretty common knowledge BTW.

Truth is they all have to at least in some instances. Every school does it differently. My kid’s school uses + and -. Some don’t. Some schools include “Athletics” or “Religion” grades in GPA. Competitive colleges tend to drop those unless clearly academic. Some schools use 100 pt. scale, Some use 5.0 point scale.

As far as weighted, often - and everyone does it differently - the weighted GPA gets dumped too, and the AP (and honors) info goes into the “rigor” basket - along with “degree of difficulty” of the school, if known, etc.

Here are some schools that explain how they do it: (I just posted the first few that popped up for my google.)
UGA: http://ugaadmissions.blogspot.com/2013/11/calculating-uga-gpa.html
"So step one is to look at the GPA(s) on your transcript, and then completely ignore it. Scratch it out, mark it out with a Sharpie, rip that section off the transcript, but do whatever you need to do to get it out of your mind.

Step two, understand that UGA re-calculates all high school GPA’s, and it is based upon the individual grades…"

Purdue: http://www.admissions.purdue.edu/apply/coregpa.php
“Each year Purdue receives applications from high school students across the United States and around the world. Each applicant’s school makes decisions about how it calculates grades for students, what scale is used, and whether some grades are reported as weighted or unweighted. Because of such variances we calculate the student’s academic core GPA to use as one factor in admission and scholarship decisions. However, the strength of the student’s curriculum (in the context of the coursework that is available at his or her school) also is a factor.
The core GPA is calculated using unweighted grades from only the academic coursework reported on the applicant’s official high school transcript - courses in English, college preparatory math, lab science, social studies, and foreign language.
For the recalculation, we use the same grading scale that is used for Purdue students, which is as follows:”

Florida: http://www.scoreatthetop.com/blog-1/florida-schools-change-their-gpa-calculations-for-admissions
Colleges rarely use the GPA that you see on your transcript; rather, they recalculate it using criteria that are essential to their specific admissions decision-making process.

Old WSJ article, but mentions a number of schools: Emory, Hopkins etc.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB105899458688282900
To try to cut through this hodgepodge, colleges around the country are coming up with their own formulas to recalculate each applicant’s GPA. One strategy – used by Emory University and the University of California system, among others – is to drop the pluses and minuses alongside letter grades. (So a B-plus in trigonometry becomes a B.) Another approach is to disregard the applicant’s entire freshman year of high school. Some schools, like Haverford College in Pennsylvania, now go a step further – throwing out the GPA altogether and relying instead on the student’s class rank.
The high-school transcript of a student with lots of pluses next to his grades, for example, could mean more to Johns Hopkins, which takes those shades into account in its recalculation. At Carnegie Mellon, by contrast, “an A is an A is an A,” says Michael Steidel, director of admissions, regardless whether there was a plus or a minus alongside it.
In addition, since colleges like Emory don’t give credit in their formula for difficult courses, it may not make sense for a student already taking a decent dose of APs to overload on them and risk a low grade.

http://www.collegeadmissionspartners.com/college-admissions-counseling/recalculating-gpa-at-michigan/
article on Michigan that mentions it is stopping the recalculation, but says this:
Recalculating a GPA can mean one of several things. Some colleges eliminate the grades from all courses that are not considered core courses. Under this system, grades in classes like music, phy ed, health, theatre, are not counted in the GPA used by the college for admissions purposes.

Another way to recalculate GPA is to eliminate all of the score increases that high schools give for honors, AP and IB classes. Here is how it works. If you high school gives a 4.0 for an “A” in a typical class, they may give a 5.0 for an “A” in an honors class and a 6.0 for an “A” in an AP class. Each high school awards these higher grade points according to their own policies and there is no uniformity in these policies. At some high schools, there is no extra GPA bump for an honors course or an AP course. At other schools, the bump is substantial.

Anyway, there’s no single list I’ve found, but tons of information out there. Trust me, recalculating GPA is one of the easiest thing an admissions committee has to do with an application. Try trying to evaluate the “authenticity” of EC commitment. Or how much “help” an essay writer got…

It is easy, but looks like a significant amount of work unless the high school records are already in some standardized machine readable format (like the self-reported courses and grades put into the application, as used by UCs and some other schools like SUNYs). How do colleges deal with the workload if they receive transcripts from high schools on application (instead of self-reported courses and grades put into the application)?

@ucbalumnus at the most mundane level they have to recalculate because they have to record stats for all the mundane stat-recording things. Some will just plug the 5.0 scale and 100 point scale into a program and hit a button.

I would bet many, if not most, competitive privates have some work-study flunky recalculate. It’s a one-sheet with what 15-20 entries? It’s closing out a gas-station cash register, but easier. They’ve been doing it a long time:

Chicago Latin - they use + and -, strip 'em out, add divide. We’re good.
Holy Ghost Redeemer - they give everyone an A for compulsory comparative religion. Strip out that 4, add, divide.
Regina French Immersion School - 100 pt. scale. Do that Canada thing. Input the GPA.

At the risk of going OT a bit, I stumbled over this blog. I never did anything around admissions at Princeton, so I can’t speak authoritatively about this specifically but it is a very accurate-sounding/feeling account of what little, transient exposure I’ve had to this process for “more competitive” type schools.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=520869

15-20 entries times 39,000 (or whatever) transcripts is a significant amount of work, even though it may be easy work.

And to stay on topic, I really do encourage everyone to read the audit. It is surprisingly well-written for a state office audit.

Pages 38 or so are around where there is deeper info on nonresident stats and, more importantly, I think, the revenue changes that came from the 2007 decision to allow campuses to keep money that previously had been put into a general fund. I really think the worst excesses were fueled by that understandable, but misguided change. That mechanism alone will continue to injure the UC-as-one-system myth more than any other.

https://www.bsa.ca.gov/pdfs/reports/2015-107.pdf

@ucbalumnus again, they need to record keep so at the very least they are converting everyone to the same scale.

They’re reading from 2 to 7 essays. Putting piles. Discussing…

I mean, are you actually saying you don’t think Harvard bothers to recalculate?

Then how do they get a consistent GPA for the Common Data info? Again, I don’t know for a fact, but given the schools I know for a fact recalculate, I kinda can’t imagine. I can call someone tomorrow if you want.

http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/counselors/q-and-a/calculating-gpa/#5

The UC must have some way to filter student grades to meet that selection criteria especially when classes are taken outside of the high schools and transcripts are sent separately by students, not by HS counselors.

I am not saying that. However, you do not seem to recognize that, even though the work of recalculating GPA is easy work, it is still a significant amount of work in aggregate. Assuming that a college recalculates, and does not have applicants self-report courses and grades like UC and SUNY, it would be interesting to see how it manages the workload of dealing with tens of thousands of transcripts to recalculate GPA for during application reading season.

Sometimes the common wisdom on cc is incorrect. :slight_smile:

And yes, I know of a few anecdotes of schools - all public – that do recalc as well.

But I’m still not convinced that it is common at top privates. Much easier and faster to look at the applicant’s GPA, in whatever format its presented, and compare that to the school Profile. A seasoned Adcom can estimate/approximate class rank in a few seconds; most of us on cc could do the same.

And if you are a top private, you are really narrowing the acceptable pool down to the top decile as a first cut – absent a hook. In the case of HYPS and their ilk, narrowing down to the top handful in a class. No need to recalc thousands of transcripts <top decile when only the top ~20 students have a real chance of acceptance (absent a hook); total waste of time and resources, IMO.

Applicants enter the courses and grades into the UC application. Some unusual situations may require special handling, but, for most frosh applicants, all of the high school academic record is then in a standardized machine readable format when received by UC, so that recalculation of GPAs and such are done automatically by a computer program.

@bluebayou @ucbalumnus Ok, I can’t speak for Harvard - or very many schools - specifically and they might not bother to recalc all applications as a certain percentage are going to get tossed just on SATs or whatever.

But I can tell you most, if not all, top privates go through a student’s transcripts during the admission review and make sure to drop athletic, extra-curricular as courses (Band, Theater etc. that is not an academic course etc.) Some drop +/- etc. And some recalc that as number. Others might just note the info, I guess, as to how it reflects on academic rigor.

And, of course, they all have to recalculate the non-4.0 scale scores.

And at the end of the day, the UCs get three windows into a student’s acadmics. Unweighted GPA, UC GPA, Weighted GPA. It would likely be relatively easy, using these three metrics, to glean a good idea of academic rigor.

As far as the UCs go - there will still be variance in any nonresident GPA calc. The Audit did not even use international students, since the UCs objected to how they would all have to be recalculated, but they did note that had they used them they would have been lower as well, fwiw.

from the audit footnotes: “We did not include international nonresidents with lower weighted GPA scores in our count to address the university’s concern that those scores are not comparable to the scores of residents. However, if we had included these students, in academic year 2014–15 the total nonresidents with lower weighted GPAs would have been 17,533.”

I get the feeling some folks don’t fully realize the changes that were made in the UC system that led to the drastic change in nonresident enrollment and standards. In case you are not inclined to read the audit, here is the graph from the audit that I think best illustrates the effect of the two big changes that were made: (P. 42)

  1. Allowing individual colleges to keep non-resident money and individual college presidents to set nonresident enrollment targets.
  2. a bit later the change in the standards for nonresidents as defined by the BOARS - the UC Board of Admissions and Relations with Schools.

Those two changes obviously accelerated the increase in nonresidents long after the financial crises had abated.

http://www.auditor.ca.gov/pdfs/reports/2015-107.pdf

Got to P. 42 - makes it very clear.

(I don’t know if you can insert images in these posts, but I haven’t figured it out if you can. Sorry.)

I disagree. There is no need, and that is my point. All top colleges are seeking top decile kids, if not much higher, and that is really easy to discern from the transcript and school Profile, regardless of whether the school is on a 6 point or 100 point scale. They can also eyeball whether the student loaded up on fluff classes or AP/IB/honors. Plus, they have the GC to mark the “most rigorous” box, so Adcoms don’t need to evaluate for rigor. Just a quick perusal is all that is required.

Yup, I pointed that out earlier.

btw: there is actually a 4th “window” into the academics: rank of applicant relative to all other UC applicants from that HS. Note, this only applies to those students who apply to a UC in that year.

@bluebayou - Would the Eligibility in the Local Context (ELC) program be a part of that 4th window, or would it be something else? I remember when my kids were in 11th grade we had to give consent for the school to release their grades to the UC system to calculate if they were in the top 9%. I think the school sent in the transcripts for those kids in the top 15% at the end of their junior year. Then during senior year, when they submitted their UC applications, they received a notice whether or not they were officially designated as being in the top 9% of their class.

@CaliDad2020 - I thought the UC system already had most of the top 15% of IS students’ grades on file prior to senior year? http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/freshman/california-residents/local-path/
http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/freshman/california-residents/local-path/

that is different, Fish.

The UC computers (obviously) know every student that applies from each HS. And since UC requires all grades be inputted, its really easy to rank those applicants by HS. It’s all part of the file.

Re: #853

ELC is determined by checking if the applicant’s UC-weighted-capped GPA >= the top 9% threshold UC-weighted-capped GPA set by previous classes at the high school. Presumably, this is done to minimize rank-grubbing within the current class, and to calculated rank for ELC purposes using UC-weighted-capped GPA instead of whatever the high school uses.

Note that this was inspired by the Texas top 10% rule, but the Texas top 10% rule goes by the high school calculated class rank within the current class; there are plenty of threads about rank-grubbing in Texas high schools.

@bluebayou Thank you!

@ucbalumnus Thank you for the details!

@CaliDad2020 - Regarding #854 - Never mind! @ucbalumnus answered my question!