“Why did this change? Did the UCs suddenly run out of high-achieving OOS applicants?”
UCB and UCLA get more outstanding OOS applicants than they ever have. What has changed is the in-state pool.
California continues to grow bigger and bigger and bigger. Much faster than the number of seats at UCLA and UCB has grown. So the in-state applicant pool keeps getting bigger and bigger and stronger and stronger. If you want the OOS kids to have higher stats than the in-staters, just make a big increase in the number of IS seats available at UCB and UCLA. Don’t take seats away from the OOS kids, but just make more IS seats. That, for example, is what UVA has agreed to do in negotiation with the Commonwealth. That would would fix the numbers.
Instead, it seems like UC is instead trying to send strong IS kids to the other UC campuses.
“I wonder if they should return to a policy of legacy considerations for applicants.”
This would never fly for in-state admissions.
UVA and UM (I think) use legacy admissions. But their legacy policy is limited only to OOS applicants. It would be toxic for a state university to give legacy taxpayer a preference over non-legacy taxpayer.
But no one cares if you give non-resident legacies an edge over non-resident non-legacies. Especially when those non-residents pay a higher price.
I understand you are angry. It’s brutal out there.
A friend of mine’s daughter only got into UCSC. A cousin was a straight A student and didn’t get into UCLA. The only school, last I heard, she got into was Indiana.
Your daughter is obviously bright and a great student.
Years ago, my daughter did not get into UCD even though the school used a point system and by my calculations, she had more than enough points. She did get into UCSB. It was easier to get into schools years ago.
My daughter ended up choosing between Washington and Michigan. My daughter couldn’t decide the afternoon before the last day to decide.
We are in the SF bay area. I said to my daughter, "Get ready. We are going to fly to Seattle right now. It’s $40,000 cheaper to go to Washington. So…if you can’t decide…
Then she chose Michigan. That’s what I get for saying you can go wherever.
My son lives in NYC. For the right student, I think NYU looks good.
I get it. Your daughter is qualified for all these schools. And now… You are out $100,000.
@dstark exactly. If I thought there was even a legit reason, I’d be fine with it. If she lost her seat to an economically challenged kid, or even a URM. But the URM’s are like 7% of the engineering programs. They are getting screwed more than anyone.
The problem is these kids are pawns in a bunch of admins shell game to get bigger housing allowances and more money for pet research or bigger swimming pools or god knows what.
For the record, OOS tuition and fees for UC Berkeley for 2016/17 is $55,192.00.
If you add their estimate for on-campus R&B, books, transportation and personal expenses, it shoots up to $60,100.00 for a first year on-campus student. http://financialaid.berkeley.edu/cost-attendance
Subsequent years, after the first year housing is past, students will need to secure off (and afford) off-campus housing in the Bay Area, which is an education in itself…
Colorado has accepted OOS for years, but with a current 85% acceptance rate, pretty much anyone meeting the minimal requirements can get accepted, so I’m not sure that the instate-ers care about the OOS %.
U-Wisconsin is much more selective, with a 57% acceptance rate. But UW also has a reciprocal agreement with Minn to provide an OOS discount to the other’s residents.
U-Michigan has a 33% acceptance rate, but exists in a state that is barely growing, if at all. Further, the state also offers its residents a wonderful experience at Michigan State in East Lansing. (acceptance rate = 66%)
In contrast, Cal (16% admission rate) and UCLA (19%), exist in a state with a growing high school population.
Bingo! To the poohbahs in charge of UC, they are all ~equal, so getting a degree from Merced is just as good as from Cal.
UCLA tab is a whopping $51K
UCB,UCSD,UCI,UCD come in around $27-30K
UCSC,UCR,UCSB around $14-17K
Almost all OOS are opting for the most expensive campuses, so as a group they are costing the system more than the average UC student. If you break it down further, if they are entering into STEM- especially engineering programs -they are costing even more than the average per student campus cost. So their OOS subsidy is not going as far as it appears when looking at totals averaged over all campuses. I suspect many CA residents would pay more-much more- in tuition to buy back seats for CA students. As mentioned in several posts in this thread some parents are now on the hook for many thousands more to send kids OOS for a comparable education. We’ve got a ridiculous funding model where people are subsidizing students in other states instead of spending just a bit more ($2500/year according to Pres. Napolitano) to keep the kids closer to home.
@momsquad ^^ there’s someone that gets it. “Sell” the UCB and UCLA STEM (at a loss, btw) and send resident kids to “good enough for them, but not good enough for OOS/international” Merced or Riverside or SC…
We’re about to dump 100K extra on sending our kid either downtown or to Ann Arbor or Seattle or Brooklyn to get her ME degree. She’ll have a great time and we’ll keep the car a few years longer and make it work, but it’s a travesty.
And now that our kid is left out of the process, we have no incentive to support increased UC funding. So now we’re in the “kill the beast - defund now” camp.
@CaliDad2020 Doesn’t your daughter needs 2 SAT subject for engineering? Also 2190 for COE at UCB and UCLA is not very high. Most admits I know to COE at UCB or UCLA has at least 2200 or higher. Most of them have 2300 or higher.
@Desiree2 I think his point was that she also didn’t get into UCSD, UCSB, UCI, or UCD, but she did get into UMich, UWash, USC viterbi, NYU-Tandon and McGill. For OOS, UMich is also fairly selective.
@Gator88NE Engineering applicants are also strongly encouraged to take the SAT Subject Test in Math Level 2 as well as a SAT Subject Test in science (Biology E.M., Chemistry or Physics) in order to be as competitive as possible.
From Berkeley website.
My point is that no matter how qualified she is. If she doesn’t fulfill the requirement, it would be difficult for her to get in. Also 750 in Math II is probably not high enough for Berkeley engineering. I didn’t even dare to apply to COE Berkeley and I had 800 in both Math II and Chem.
UMich might not require SAT Subject test (I don’t know I never applied to UMich).
UM,UW, Colo and UVa have had large OOS numbers for many years. They all figured out it was profitable many years ago and a way to offset flat state funding (at best). UC is just late having been better funded for years.
@Desiree2 She has 670 Bio, 720 Math II as well. And a 33 ACT (only took it once 'cause McGill required it). As I mentioned elsewhere, she knew UCB COE, UCLA and even UCSB were at best a pick 'em and even a bit of a longshot - although she has very strong extra-curriculars like 2 years of weekly SHARK/SEAL lab work at CIT and amazing recs. She is clearly ahead of the top 2015 stats at UCI and UCD and lands pretty favorably in UCSD.
She also has a very rigorous resume - 6 varsity letters, 11 APs, art portfolio, language awards. JHU Engineering innovation w/ 2nd highest lab grade in class (and only girl in class btw.) 4.13 UC gpa, 4.3 W. And again, she got a big merit scholarship at one school, got into UMich (USNews #5 ME undergrad), UWash (USNEWS #23 ME), Viterbi, Tandon, McGill… and UC Santa Cruz
It is just implausible that a university system that has stated over and over again it wants to rectify the gender imbalance and needs more women in STEM would find her resume uninteresting. It’s just a joke.
It is a political game being played by carpetbaggers and self-replicating admins. It’s a bad chess game and our kids are the pawns. Fire Napolitano and most of the deans. Start over. Or defund.
Calidad2020 I don’t think the OOS students kept your daughter out. But I would also just as soon limit the number of OOS students to the bare minimum. UC is a California institution and should be primarily for the citizens of California. I am a UC alumni.
