Auditions for BFA vs BA

College Majors Theater/Drama Majors
1

<p>I would be very interesed to know if panels evaluating prospective students have a different expectation level for those who are auditioning for a BA vs a BFA program, particularly where both degrees are offered by the college/university. </p>

<p>My D is (at this moment-it could change by next week) deciding whether the BA or BFA in Acting is best, or a BA in a more general theatre program to be followed by more specific studies in grad school would be a better fit. We are going over a lot of the old threads which cover the distinctions in great detail, and they are a tremendous help.</p>

<p>That led to the thought that the standard may be higher for the BFA auditions, or maybe BA in a specific track such as acting or MT rather than a general theatre studies program. </p>

<p>Any thoughts would be appreciated...</p>

2

<p>Most BFA programs are audition based and most BA programs are not, even where the intended concentration is performance oriented, although there are exceptions for each. At most BA programs, a student is admitted based on the same criteria as any other liberal arts applicant and must meet the same academic and other criteria. The programs also and typically differ drastically in regards to the opportunities and requirements to take electives and other classes outside of the major. BFA programs are typically very structured and specifically sequenced while BA programs in theatre/acting require students to meet the same gen ed/L.A. requirements as other students. It is important for your daughter to think through whether she wants a highly focused experience (BFA) or a broader experience encompassing a more diverse range of studies (BA).</p>

3

<p>In most cases where a school offers both a BFA and a BA program, the BA program does not require an audition. (I’m sure there are exceptions, of course.) And in those cases, the BFA program is regarded as the top program. My recommendation is, if you are interested in a BA program, look at schools that do not also have a BFA.</p>

4

<p>Thanks so much for the great replies. D is part of what I have heard described in lots of posts as “the cake and eat it too” crowd. She attended just a week-long theatre camp that had them going all day into the evening, focusing on dance, voice and acting. I have never seen her happier. So at first glance a try at a BFA seems right. But although she is not interested in a rigid core curriculum with math, science and language requirements, she thinks she would like to take courses in psych, art and history. </p>

<p>I think maybe attending a month-long theatre program next summer would help her understand if she can sustain a BFA type of schedule for longer than a week. Also a program that is more student determined, such as the type of study offered at Bennington, might be another option for her. I think whichever way she goes, she will have to really research each school’s core and elective expectations for the degree offered. </p>

<p>I also have to laugh at myself re-reading this post; as I seem to be going on the assumption she has enough talent to audition for a BFA program. Never assume! Safety schools list here we come…</p>

5

<p>There are BFA programs that, while highly structured, are still provided within the context of a liberal arts curriculum. My D will be attending Illinois Wesleyan this fall for BFA Acting, but she will still be required to take a number of liberal arts/general education courses and has a handful of electives outside of the theatre department. It will make for a busy schedule – and it would be nearly impossible to double major – but it will allow her to study those psychology, greek mythology, and other topics that interest her.</p>

6

<p>The BFA program at Syracuse requires courses outside of the major… I think about 24 credits or so. I took history, religion, mythology, writing, women’s studies, etc. The training within the program was very intense. I am sure that there are other BFA programs that require and encourage students to take courses outside of the major. NYU is another that comes to mind. You may find that other small liberal arts colleges like Bennington have more flexible core requirements outside of the major. Sarah Lawrence, Hampshire, Bard, Vassar come to mind.</p>

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<p>This is a good place to link an excellent article someone posted for me and my D when she was making the decision between the BA program at UCLA and several BFA programs she was also accepted to. It really outlines the difference between the two. But because this keeps coming up and I worry the link may disappear, here is also the text from the link:</p>

<p>[Acting</a> in Plays, Singing: b.a ?bfa?, mfa programs, bachelors of arts](<a href=“http://en.allexperts.com/q/Acting-Plays-Singing-695/2008/11/b-bfa.htm]Acting”>http://en.allexperts.com/q/Acting-Plays-Singing-695/2008/11/b-bfa.htm)</p>

<p>In the article, they wrote:</p>

<p>"Actually, there are some very specific differences between a BA and a BFA, and I think you have it a bit backwards.</p>

<p>A BA is a general undergraduate degree with a particular focus based on what your major is. So if you major in Theatre and get a BA, you will have a concentration in theatre arts classes which may include such classes as Acting (beginning, intermediate, advanced), voice, dance, technical theatre, directing, and more, but you will also have studied a broad range of subjects outside your major. This will give you a very good general education (and believe me, an actor needs one), as well as the opportunity to study in areas (such as business, English, psychology, sciences, etc.) which can give you the skills to find a good day job while pursuing an acting career (something that EVERY actor needs). </p>

<p>However, a BA is not a “terminal” degree. That is, it is not considered a “professional” degree. While you can certainly get acting jobs with a Theatre major in a good BA actor training program, it does not give you the “professional” training that will catch directors/producers’ eyes and show them that you have the skills and commitment to your career to . Ideally, if you intend to pursue a professional acting career, you will follow up your BA with graduate school and get an MFA in Acting (or directing or film or music, or stage management, or playwriting, or whatever your area of interest is). An MFA is the “terminal” or “professional” degree for the theatre/film. It is a full professional program with intensive studies in acting and its related areas. Most good MFA programs are affiliated with a professional theatre, and students have the opportunity to work at a professional level as well as make many professional contacts that will benefit them in their careers. This is the degree that is also the requirement for most high school or college teaching, so if you have any intention in the future to teach acting, this is the degree you will need.</p>

<p>A BFA is a degree that sort of falls in the middle of these. It is also sometimes known as a Conservatory program (although some conservatory programs do not give BFA’s and some BFA’s are not technically “Conservatories” but rather part of a university acting program. A BFA, unlike a BA, is an intensive performance program, much like an MFA program, focusing almost exclusively on performing arts, but taking the same amount of time as a BA alone. This may sound great to someone who is in a hurry to get their training done and get out to work, and who doesn’t care about getting a well-rounded education, but it does have its disadvantages.</p>

<p>A BFA program is not considered to be a terminal degree. Most programs, while intensive, do not give the same degree of professional training that a BA and MFA together give, and are not given the same degree of respect in the marketplace, and will not enable you to teach without further training should you want to. Additionally, because it is so intensive, an BFA does not give you the general education that a BA does. And, believe it or not, that can be really important to an actor. As an actor, you need to be able to connect to plays and people from every walk of life, from different countries, different historical periods. The more you know about just about everything, the better you will be able to portray the characters you will be asked to. And a knowledge of history, psychology, sociology and more, will enable you to understand the minds of those characters and the cultures they inhabit. A broad based liberal arts education can give you a really strong foundation in all of these.</p>

<p>That said, it is impossible to say exactly where each of these degrees will take you, career-wise. Acting is an art, a craft and a business. It is one of the most difficult professions there is and, while good training is vital, actually making an acting career also depends on talent, passion, perserverence, persistance, determination, networking, and a tremendous amount of luck. A good choice of acting program will give you skills that will allow you to be the best actor you can be, but it’s what you do after that training that will determine whether you will be able to make a career as an actor. </p>

<p>I hope that helps clarify things a little, Valerie. Acting is such a unpredictable profession. Fewer than 2% of all professional (union) actors actually make a living by acting alone, and median annual salaries range between $5000-7000 - well below the poverty level. With all of that against you, getting the best training you can get is one way you can help ensure that you have the best chance to make the most of your talent."</p>

<p>That was the end of the article. I think they did a fine job of explaining the differences.</p>

<p>That being said, every program is different and some BA auditions are just as complex as the BFA auditions. (UCLA’s BFA audition requires two monologues and an interview, and you must complete a supplemental application package, had a headshot and a resume… just like the BFA programs.)</p>

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<p>Wow, thanks so much everyone. This is great information and will give my D a clearer way to think about all the options. If I had to pick for her, I think a BA in Theatre is better in her case, followed by MFA in the field in which she has the most interest. I know she loves acting the most, but she can also sing and is very artistic. She always works on the sets, lighting and costume design on her school productions. And she has spent HOURS this summer working on computer animation projects, and I think if anyone is passionate enough to spend that kind of self-motivated time on something, it should be considered for future concentrated study.</p>

<p>But the best I can do is put the information in front of her and let her decide; she’s the one walking the path. Thanks again!</p>

9

<p>Following up on KatMT and chrissyblu’s posts, many BFA programs require taking liberal arts classes and provide the opportunity to do so in the structured curriculum, even schools that have been viewed historically as pure “conservatory” programs such as CCM for example. The question is how much of an opportunity is there and will the level of the liberal arts classes be what a student desires. It’s accordingly important to look at the structured curriculum at each school and also consider whether the liberal arts offerings are through a “liberal arts department” at the school or whether the classes are through a separate department in that discipline as you would expect to find at a school that offers degrees in a variety of liberal arts and science majors. KatMT’s reference to 24 credits at Syracuse (8 classes) is a pretty good average of what you would expect to see at a BFA program. </p>

<p>As to the subject of BA/MFA, BFA and the differences, here are some additional things to think about. If you are talking about employment as an actor, the degree behind your name is not nearly as important as a host of other factors. Look at the Playbills from professional productions - it would seem that most working actors do not have MFA’s. There are many ways to develop the skills and training needed to be competitive as a performer and it is your work experience and history that result in credibility as a performer much more so than if you happen to have a particular degree, including a MFA. While a MFA is the “terminal degree” in theatre, I think the question should be asked of “terminal degree for what purpose?” This is not intended to trivialize or denigrate the additional professional performance training available through a MFA program but I believe that a MFA is more important as a terminal degree if you want to have doors opened to you in areas of theatre and theatre related jobs other than performing as an actor. This is not to say that a MFA won’t result in training, connections and experiences that will open additional doors as an actor, however, those doors can be opened through other paths and having the MFA is not a guarantee that those performance doors will be opened. </p>

<p>I think it really boils down to what kind of educational experience a student wants to have - more focused specialized education in a BFA (with some liberal arts thrown in) or a broader more diverse liberal arts education through a BA with the intent of obtaining more specialized and focused education later (if at all). In this regard, however, also keep in mind that many MFA acting programs strongly prefer candidates who are not applying directly from their undergrad program and are looking for candidates who can show a body of work and experience post college graduation. Applying directly out of college can put a student at a competitive disadvantage compared to applicants who have been out of school for a few years pounding auditions and developing resumes.</p>

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<p>Just an observation on the ‘general education’ provided by a BFA … </p>

<p>While we don’t actually take many courses in specific liberal arts subjects, among the first things an actor has to do in preparing a role is answer seven basic questions. Who am I? Where am I? When is it? What do I want? Why do I want it? How will I get it? What do I need to overcome? </p>

<p>Obviously, a great deal of research needs to be done if one is to adequately answer those questions in a play of any import and this research needs to go pretty deep. I’ll submit that one needs to go much deeper than what is typically provided by the freshman and possibly sophomore level liberal arts courses one generally takes in a BA or liberal arts heavy BFA although it can certainly be beneficial to already have the broad understanding having taken those classes can bring. I’m not saying one approach is necessarily better than the other, but I will say that I don’t think it’s necessarily accurate to suggest that a BFA lacks in general education in the final analysis. I think it’s just different learning styles and different ways of getting to the same place. </p>

<p>Some people REALLY didn’t like it that last time I pointed this out, but the British who are often cited as being the best actors in the world take ZERO formal general education classes in their training programs. They’re deemed to have sufficient education on entry. Some may argue that this is because their education system in general provides a better background, but I’ve seen nothing to suggest that it’s any better than what a smart American student with some AP/IB type classes under his/her belt brings to the table out of high school.</p>

<p>Now just for fun get on YouTube and search “1930s lady Amsterdam” and watch the first two videos. Would you rather rely on the general knowledge you get from a freshman or sophomore level college class in preparing a role from that time and place or would you go to [url=<a href=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLZJ1ESWiwY&feature=channel]her[/url”>www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLZJ1ESWiwY&feature=channel]her[/url</a>]. Believe it or not, there are a lot of people like that around who can provide details about their specialty period that could make your average college history professor’s head explode. :)</p>

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<p>MichaelNKat and FishBowlFreshman,
As usual, well thought-out responses on CC have brought to light other important factors to consider for college selection in general, not just for Theatre/Drama students. It made me think of the college selection process for my older D, (who heads out to Loyola (MD) this August. There was a definite conflict between selecting a school with an “upside down” curriculum offering study on one’s major with built-in internships and a very limited required core, and a traditional LAC which offered classes in the major with lots of “well-rounded” classes included. The traditional LAC won out, and that did surprise me a bit. So now it’s time for round two with little D.</p>

<p>You each made important points, but two in particular stood out for me. First is the consideration of career options one will expect the conclusion of the four undergraduate years in regard to the type of degree earned. (And in turn, how difficult is that to be determined by the average a 17 year old?) And what about the learning style of a particular student, also taking into consideration the changes in education, industries and the economy in the past few years. It also strikes at the heart of the purpose of advanced education; is it for the sake of learning and pursing a passion in more depth, or is it to groom oneself primarily for a career? I know, ideally it should be both, but honestly I can think of quite a few people for which college was neither…it was a huge missed opportunity. And I guess that’s why I do spend so much time on CC and college research in general; to help them see as many of the possibilities as possible, and take it from there. I am paying for my two Ds education, and it will be what they make of it. But I refuse to pay for missed opportunities or coasting through those four years.
“Who am I,” “Where am I,” questions unless they have to do with a role in a production. But it’s pretty important to try to figure a general direction at least, knowing there’s a good chance you may end up taking another path. Time to ask and answer the questions…</p>

<p>Secondly, D is the type of kid who is self-motivated when it comes to things that really are her passions. Unlike the kids who are true students, (and by that I mean those who love to be in ANY class where they are learning something new), she has trouble staying focused in classes like math and language. So a program where is absorbed in studies that are her passion with a couple other classes mixed into the schedule is appealing. When she is miserable trying to master geometry for example, I always try to keep her moving forward her how nice it will be when she gets through the required high school classes and continues into higher education, where she can focus on improving what she is good at, rather than trying to “fix” stuff she not only isn’t good at, but for which she really seems to have no brain power :slight_smile: </p>

<p>So again, your points are more things for D to consider…keep 'em rolling!
Buggie</p>

12

<p>Here is one more voice to be heard in the endlessly debated issue of BFA versus BA, conservatory versus liberal arts.</p>

<p>My daughter is in tech theater and was leaning in the direction of a BFA conservatory program and everything made perfect sense UNTIL she went to precollege at CMU this summer and fell in love with dramaturgy. She had always assumed she preferred the practical to the theoretical but now it turns out she wants to tackle the larger issues as well.</p>

<p>So she is going over her list of colleges to find the programs/majors which will allow her to explore. She is looking at some BA programs, some Dramaturgy programs, some BFA in Theater Arts programs as well as Design/Tech. This BFA degree in Theater Arts, the liberal arts approach to a professional degree, may be just right. I think she wants the intensity of the conservatory experience, and she wants to immerse herself in theater, but she does not want to choose a specialty just yet. Or maybe she wants more than one specialty. Or maybe she wants to be a generalist: dramaturg, director, stage manager.</p>

<p>I guess my point is that it’s tough to say what will happen to our theater/drama children. You don’t want to put them in a box, never a good idea for anyone but especially not for artists. Many will eventually change direction simply because they just don’t know enough yet. In my daughter’s case, she did not go to a performing arts high school. Her school has a relatively good theater program so she knows something about crewing lights, for example, but she doesn’t know much about lighting design. (Or didn’t, before the precollege program.)</p>

<p>Very few people fall in love with a particular kind of work at an early age and then never change as they grow older. It’s not unlike marrying your high school sweetheart. It’s probably an amazing experience to fall in love and have it work out the first time (I wouldn’t know) but a lot of those relationships don’t stay together long term.</p>

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<p>My son didn’t get bit by the theater bug until his senior year of HS, so BFA was never on the radar. He is a Theater (or the oh-so-pretentious “Theatre”) Arts major at a well-regarded LAC in the Pacific NW, where there are no auditions to enter the major, but also fairly weak acting training. He does have to audition for all acting slots (as does everyone). The only auditions for applicants were those seeking a scholarship in the department.</p>

<p>He seems pretty serious about theater. He spent this summer as an intern with a local children’s theater company (really a theater day camp teaching assistant), and will be attending a semester abroad in Ireland this fall at the Gaiety School of Acting, which reputedly is quite intense on the acting training.</p>

<p>Not sure where this is taking him. He is interested in regional theater, not NYC, not “the industry” in LA. He is also interested in perhaps teaching theater in school, so the next step may be an MFA (acting or directing) or a teaching certificate or just job hunting. The professional actors he/we know range from barely getting by to big contracts and a house in the Hollywood Hills, so he knows that anything is possible, and luck (and appearance) have a lot to do with ultimate success.</p>

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<p>I live in the Pacific NW but have not heard of LAC. That school is that? People I know are looking for theater schools in the NW.</p>

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<p>LAC is short for Liberal Arts College.</p>

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<p>Just to give an idea based of the usual 24 hour for the general education curriculum at a conservatory type BFA, at my BFA program I’ll be attending in the fall, the general education is 35 hours, because it’s a school that counts itself as an actor training program within a liberal arts context. These are the schools that people might want to look at if interested in the intensity of a BFA, but don’t want to sacrifice the opportunity to double major or minor. Going into my auditions, I was gung ho conservatory all the way and ended up at a school where the in the liberal arts context was important. I’m now planning on minoring in Cultural Anthropology and I think it’ll help inform my process quite a bit. I feel like there are opportunities in either approach. And another extremely valid point fishbowl makes is that when an actor gets a role, it is more likely he’s going to do personal intensive research from that time period/kind of person/blah blah blah if that’s how he works than brush up on his notes from a college class sophomore year. I mean, I’m sure the notes would be helpful, but with the internet, so much information is available at everyone’s fingertips.</p>

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<p>Would love to know what school(s) you’re talking about. PM me if you want.</p>

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<p>“I mean, I’m sure the notes would be helpful, but with the internet, so much information is available at everyone’s fingertips.”</p>

<p>Totally agreed. That’s why I truly don’t understand/really agree with the whole “BA in Theater so you can learn more about the world” approach. Unless you feel like you are not ready for a BFA, learning more about the world academically via college classes I can’t imagine giving you something you couldn’t research on your own.</p>

<p>What you can’t learn out of a book is how to act. You need to actually do it to learn how and get better. Thus, I think it’s always more advantageous to focus on a strictly acting intensive program (BFA level) if you’re genuinely trying to get better as an actor. I don’t really see any advantages a BA in Theater provides if you’re specifically looking to become a professional actor.</p>

19

<p>To me, it is a question of your goals and how you want to spend the next four years of your life. If you want to be a professional actor (not just want to, but need to, can’t think of anything else, the world may end if you can’t), and don’t have much interest in other subjects, BFA is the way to go (and there are some BAs in Acting that look an awful lot like those BFAs). BFAs are not all the same. My D explored and auditioned for about a dozen. And they ranged from having just a couple of general education requirements outside of the acting curriculum to those having upwards to a dozen or so. Meaning that some BFAs are offered “within the context of a liberal arts education”. While you couldn’t double major with those programs, you do have an opportunity to explore some other interests/subjects. In addition, some schools look like they have quite a few GE requirements, but many end up being fulfilled by theatre related classes (Literature requirement filled with Dramatic Literature; History requirement filled with History of Theatre, etc.). So one question – do you want to live, eat, sleep acting for 90+% of your college life, or do you want some balance/flexibility with other activities/subjects?</p>

<p>A true BA is going to be different – yes, you will have acting classes (sometimes you can manage to make your curriculum look a lot like a BFA Curriculum if you choose), but you will be required to take the full array of general education, have much more openings for electives, and have the opportunity for minors or double majors. The curriculum is more generalist so that you are studying all aspects of theatre, not just acting. (That said, acting BFAs do expose their actors to stagecraft, costumes, makeup, etc.) Again, there are some BAs (UCLA comes to mind) that are focused on acting – so you can’t make perfect generalizations here.</p>

<p>My D thought a lot about the BA/BFA question before choosing the BFA route. She was told all of the benefits of the BA, told that she could make the BA look just like a BFA if she wanted, etc. etc. But at the end decided that it was all about training to pursue an acting career – and she wasn’t all that interested in the BA benefits. </p>

<p>All of that aside, each schools programs (BA and BFA) are different and you really need to dig into the details of what they are offering, their philosophy and approach to theatre/acting education, etc. to determine whether that school is the right fit for you --that may be more important than whether you go for a BA or BFA. One more thought – some schools have both BA and BFA – that is another consideration. My D was concerned that the BA students would be treated as second class citizens, especially those who were pursuing acting. That may not be true or fair, but it was her perspective.</p>

20

<p>I’ll be attending Southern Methodist University in the fall, and nervousashell (haha, a severe misread on your username had me thinking it was nervousseashell at first) I don’t think you can completely discount the BA then going on to an MFA route. As earlier posted, if look at a lot of New York shows or regional shows, the majority of people that list their education have MFA’s. but you’re right, you can’t learn acting out of the book and the training needs to be had from somewhere.</p>