<p>This past week I traveled to Annapolis to visit the Naval Academy. I took the tour and pretty much feel in love with the place. I can't say that it is a place that I will love during Plebe summer, but I feel as if it is somewhere that I belong. Anyway I attended a discussion with an Admission officer, where I presented my credentials (listed below. I apoligize because I have them posted on this website already.) Basically from where I stand now I am an average/below average candidate for the academy. I understand fully that I'm not the cream of the crop but I'll admit to being a little disheartened. I'm definitely not going to give up my dream of attending the Naval Aacdemy, in fact the discussion made me want it even more. I'm just a little uneasy about putting all my heart into going to Annapolis, because I don't want a major let down.
I'm a high school Junior with:
*GPA of 3.8
*High standing in the Class Rank (although I'm not sure what exactly) Definitely in top fifth
*I'll have 3 AP courses in US History, Euro History, and Gov't and Politics.
*I'll also have all the required course work for the Academy
*I bombed my SAT's (580 Writing, 570 Reading, 450 Math) [I'm planning on taking them over because when I took them I didn't have the recommended courses like Alg. II]
*I have 29 hours of community service.
*Instead of taking a normal Junior year I'll be spending the year In Japan as an exchange student.
*I just started Long Distance Track, but plan on continuing it and 2 more seasons of trach when I get back from Japan
*I had 2 clubs Freshman year, and 6 this year
*I traveled with People to people Student Ambassadors to California, Australia, and to George Bush's inauguration.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Basically from where I stand now I am an average/below average candidate for the academy.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Hold your horses, tiger (tigress?). Why would you say that?</p>
<p>Apart from your SAT scores, which you REALLY need to redo, I don't find your profile to be below-average at all. The foreign travel/study is definitely a plus, and if you're in the top fifth of your class with a 3.8, you're no slouch.</p>
<p>Questions: How have you done in the hard courses, like Chemistry, Physics, and Calculus? Of all those clubs you're in, are you an officer in any of them? Finally, have you sent your application in yet? I can assure you that they are more qualified to tell you what your chances are than 99% of the people here (the 1% are the few BGO's we have here).</p>
<p>Send the application. You might be surprised. :)</p>
<p>In case you don't know, I went to NAPS before USNA. There's more than one way to peel a banana. ;)</p>
<p>The only reason I said that I'm a average/below avergage candidate is because when I said to my officer of admissions "what are my chances?" He said, "Average/ below average candidate with time."
When I come back from Japan I had only intended to complete my senior year and graduate. But after my Annapolis visit I'm truly considering doing two more years of high school. If I was only going to do one more year I would probably not get many leadership positions because I wouldn't have been able to join clubs my junior year. I would get chemistry and trigonometry in, but not have enough time on my schedule to throw in physics or pre-calc/calc. If I did two more years I would definitely be able to take those courses and probably hold some leadership positions. It really comes down to the question of whether or not I want to high school for 5 years.
I haven't sent my application in yet, although the admission officer advised me to do so. I'm just worried that my SAT scores will just shoot me in the foot and not give me a chance.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The only reason I said that I'm a average/below avergage candidate is because when I said to my officer of admissions "what are my chances?" He said, "Average/ below average candidate with time."
[/quote]
Yeah, well. I think he was a bit flippant with the remark, although the modifier "with time" makes sense.</p>
<p>You simply have to get those SAT's up and kick butt on the academic side with what you have left. You are hardly out of the race.</p>
<p>
[quote]
It really comes down to the question of whether or not I want to high school for 5 years.
[/quote]
You most definitely do NOT want to do that. You are better off going to a regular college for a year or two and taking college-level algebra and calculus than you are staying in HS, which I cannot imagine would look good on a resume. You've got to show that you can handle the academic challenges of USNA, and staying in HS doesn't do that.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I haven't sent my application in yet, although the admission officer advised me to do so. I'm just worried that my SAT scores will just shoot me in the foot and not give me a chance.
[/quote]
Son, I got into NAPS with a combined best SAT score of only 1150 (back in 1986). My PSAT scores were abysmal. I also blew the SAT while at NAPS, but once you're at NAPS, if you graduate, you're in. </p>
<p>My advice? Apply NOW. Start getting OFFICIAL information and find out who your BGO is. Get very, VERY close to them, and HIT THE BOOKS HARD. You can get leadership positions in clubs and organizations anywhere, and not just in schools. Churches, volunteer organizations, etc., all count. Just do them because you enjoy them rather than because you think it will make you look good.</p>
<p>You're just getting started. Don't let one comment from one person get you down. GO FOR IT. :)</p>
<p>I do believe that I'm hardly out of the race. The only thing that does worry me if that i really only have 1 year left. I'm leaving on tuesday for Japan for an entire year. (The Admissions officer informed me that my transcript would count from Japan.) So when I come back it will be time to be a senior. I get back in late July and have to rush to get everything in order, including my SATs, CFA's, ACT's, AP tests, nominations, BGO interviews, and everything else.
Somehow I'm going to have to keep up with clubs and attempt to get leadership positions. I guess we will just have to wait and see. I just know that I belong at the Academy and I'm willing to do a lot to get there.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The only thing that does worry me if that i really only have 1 year left.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>But you don't. You have TWO years left.</p>
<p>Let me let you in on a little secret. Between my Sophomore and Junior year in HS, I changed schools. I did so abysmally bad my first two years that the headmaster of the new school accepted me only because the mother of my best friend (he was a student there and his mom practically ran the place) recommended me. I had horrible grades. ONE ECA, and no sports.</p>
<p>The headmaster looked me dead in the eye and said, "You want to go to the Naval Academy?" He looked at my HS transcript and sniffed, "You won't get into Queens College with this garbage. The only reason I'm letting you in is because Mrs. <name> says you can do it. I doubt it. It will be up to you to prove me wrong."</name></p>
<p>I DID.</p>
<p>I busted my a$$ for two years. Honor roll in 4 of the next 6 trimesters, Honorable Mention the other two. Clubs. Sports. Everything.</p>
<p>Most importantly: A BLAZING PASSION TO ATTEND THE ACADEMY that ANYONE within 100 miles could see. I only applied to USNA, USCGA, USAFA, and SUNY Maritime. I dropped the USAFA application (Who really wants to be a zoomie, anyway?), and drove HARD for the others.</p>
<p>Both USNA and USCGA sent me to NAPS. USNA responded first. I have no idea if I ever got into SUNY Maritime. Who cares?</p>
<p>You CAN do it, but you have to WANT it. BAD. You need to find a way to make that year in Japan work FOR you, and you CAN. For one thing, PICK UP THE LANGUAGE.</p>
<p>You say you KNOW you belong at the Academy? Good! I know that feeling well.</p>
<p>Now go out and PROVE it! If I could do it, YOU can!</p>
<p>:)</p>
<p>Thanks Zaphod! That's what I got... a blazing passion to get into that place. I think the only reason I really was upset about the Admission officer comment about being average is that I've never been average. For one I'm 15 and going into junior year, no one said I could do it from the time of preschool. I was alwasya little immature and my parents pushed for me to go ahead, much to the dismay of the teachers. Now I'm an honor roll student with 3.8. No one, not even my parents thought I could survive my trips, than stick with me dream of becoming an exchange student.... I leave tuesday. So when I got the "average/below average candidate" I guess I got pretty shaken. I'm going to work my a$$ off in Japan and learn that language and do come clubs. And I'm going to come home and try my very hardest to get into that academy. I guess i'll just have to wait and see what happens.</p>
<p>So you're going to Japan for school but you don't speak Japanese? Are you going to a school for international students or wher ethe Japanese kids go? Interesting.</p>
<p>I'm going to be an exchange student so I'll be going to a school for all Japanese kids (I'll probably be the only non-Japanese kid there).</p>
<p>Best way to learn a language: full immersion. Just don't let them baby you too much with English.</p>
<p>Read Shogun by James Clavell if you haven't already, and watch the movie. You'd be amazed at just how much Japanese you can pick up. Granted, it's just a few words and phrases, but it's better than nothing.</p>
<p>I'm actually quite jealous. I would love to spend a year studying in Japan.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Most importantly: A BLAZING PASSION TO ATTEND THE ACADEMY that ANYONE within 100 miles could see. I only applied to USNA, USCGA, USAFA, and SUNY Maritime. I dropped the USAFA application (Who really wants to be a zoomie, anyway?), and drove HARD for the others.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>And was too clueless to look across the Throgs Neck from Ft. Skyler!! :-)</p>
<p>Here is another thought for you. You might want to investigate taking independent study classes on-line. Check with your high school and see what programs they are affiliated with or will accept. You seem to be very worried about fitting in all your classes when you return, and taking an online independent study would help out in this area. It won't be free, but you should check into it.</p>
<p>Also check out on-line SAT prep classes. You should seriously think about retaking the SAT this Fall, and if necessary, this Spring. If you make arrangements early enough with your host school, they can have the English version ordered for you. Also think seriously about taking the ACT. Many students do much better on this than the SAT.</p>
<p>PLAN!PLAN!PLAN!! Don't give up until its over, and even then regroup and move ahead.</p>
<p>(My son was told that he was "average", and his chances were only average. Not only did he get in, he has been on the honors list for the past three semesters.) (Those people who talk to you in the general office are not allowed to be overly encouraging, so as not to get one's hopes up too much, and be accused of misrepresentation. They also do not make the decisions)</p>
<p>Good Luck in your endeavors
CM</p>
<p>Thanks that's really a great idea. When I get to japan I'm going to talk to my school about what they do concerning SAT/ACT. I'm going to an all-girl school that has strong ties to wealthy upperclass Japanese families that send there children to America for exchanges or extra schooling. So I think they should have some idea of tests and stuff. I'm going to also take an online course or something to that extent for the SAT's. Not sure how I'm going to swing all this seeing as school is long hours especially with the sports/activities I'm going to do. I'll figure it all out though.</p>
<p>
[quote]
And was too clueless to look across the Throgs Neck from Ft. Skyler!! :-)
[/quote]
No, I just knew better. ;)</p>
<p>Actually, looking back it's a wonder that I didn't apply to King's Point. It never crossed my mind. USCGA and USAFA were halfhearted efforts, and SUNY was the "Well, I gotta go SOMEWHERE!" option. King's Point just never popped up. I guess "Merchant Marine" turned me off somewhere, and I never got the facts.</p>
<p>Still, I got what I wanted, so I'm happy. :)</p>
<p>
[quote]
I'm going to an all-girl school...
[/quote]
Either I once again have picked the wrong sex for a poster (you'd think with a 50/50 chance, I'd have better luck), or....</p>
<p>...this is one LUCKY guy! :D</p>
<p>
[quote]
I'm going to swing all this seeing as school is long hours especially with the sports/activities I'm going to do.
[/quote]
Just don't burn out. All the ECA's, sports, and languages in the world won't help you if your grades suck.</p>
<p>QUOTE: "(My son was told that he was "average", and his chances were only average. Not only did he get in, he has been on the honors list for the past three semesters.) "</p>
<p>Just some clarification: There is no significant correlation between the standardized test scores, etc. required for admission and potential for successful academic performance. EVERYONE admitted is considered FULLY QUALIFIED for successful completion. And many who are not admitted are deemed fully capable of success. If a student is admitted ... they are expected to be on the honors list. Of course, we know they all aren't. The curve and ranking take care of that. </p>
<p>And as many cases illustrate, final USNA ranking does not dictate one's success or failure as an officer in the USN. </p>
<p>All are simply measuring different things. Admission is one game, success as a mid another, and level of professional success as a USN officer still another.</p>
<p>DreamOn, I've told my son's story before so I won't bother w/ details, but he heard "not likely," "we're not even opening an app file for you," and "why would we consider you w/ these SATs and no calculus??" But he had everything else, and demonstrated a blazing, unquenchable desire to attend USNA.</p>
<p>I've just returned from delivering one very happy guy to Newport, RI and NAPS. Focus and DO IT. You can.</p>
<p>Oh wow... that sounds like me. I think honestly my foreign travel experience is my only big important credential. My SAT's are very poor, there is no point in denying in. Sure I know I have a lot of time, but mostly when I return from japan it will all be about rushing to do all the things I need to do.
I just finished packing. Right on top of the bag is a Naval Academy Sweatshirt to remind me of what I need to work for. I'm going to get there because I know I want it.
I also just received an email from my host school in Japan. They want me to decide what classes I should take. I've settled on Japanese History, English, Gym, and I still have extra room for more classes. I should probably take some more maths, but I will have to see when I get there.</p>
<p>"Just some clarification: There is no significant correlation between the standardized test scores, etc. required for admission and potential for successful academic performance..."</p>
<p>To my ear, this statement does not seem to have a ring of truth? Can you cite the source?</p>
<p>As I understand this statement - a person who scored perfectly on standardized test (SAT, ACT) has no greater potential for successful academic performance than someone who did poorly on the same test? </p>
<p>hmm.</p>
<p>Whistle Pig:</p>
<p>I detect more than a slight trace of cynicism. At a briefing early on during plebe summer, my son's class was asked how many were in the top half of their graduating class. A large number of hands went up. They were then told that "half of you will be in the bottom half of your class".</p>
<p>The honor list takes into account the overall order of merit, which includes military coursework, physical aptitude and performance, and military leadership qualities. It is not a purely academic (grades only) ranking.</p>
<p>My point was to encourage applicants who were told they had "average" chances of admittance not to take it to heart and become discouraged. Even those who were deemed only "average" can excell with motivation.</p>
<p>And I will disagree with your statement that SAT scores do not have a "significant" correlation to the potential for successful academic performance. Motivation and perseverance may play a significant role, especially at a civilian school, but at the Academy, where mids (especially plebes) have more on their plate than can be accomplished in a 24 hour period, and lights out is strictly enforced, aptitude does play a more significant role in success.</p>
<p>CM</p>
<p>Having actually gone through the place, I agree 100% with WhistlePig.</p>
<p>I saw guys who blew their SAT's away get separated by Academic Board in short order, and guys with mediocre scores (like me) get through the place. Sure, the SAT's provide one measure of comparison, but it's hardly definitive.</p>
<p>And what he said about everyone admitted being considered capable of graduating is spot-on.</p>