<p>and as an addendum, there are kids at Fordham from public schools on significant scholarships. I don’t know what the formula is for the committee to decide who gets what. But I know that SAT is a huge part of it, coupled with gpa, class rank, etc.</p>
<p>Wow Ghostbuster, as always you say exactly what’s in my head. It is always the middle class that gets squeezed the most. If grades/SATs are equal, the lower income get financial aid, the higher income can just write out a check and the majority of us stuck in the middle have to struggle like crazy and are admonished by the FA offices for not saving $200K per child and having the audacity to apply to private universities, after they’ve dangled the carrot in your kid’s face for 2 years. If your child is a good student he/she will want to apply to the best state schools which are ridiculously competitive now, especially with such an emphasis on diversity. Plus they may not be such a good fit for a kid like mine who went to parochial school and is on the conservative side. A previous poster chided that the Catholic school kids get all the money at Fordham. If that is true, then all I can say is thank God they did and we are flattered that they care enough to honor the sacrifices we’ve made along the way.</p>
<p>I dont think Fordham gives all the aid to Catholic School kids. I know that public school kids are applying to Fordham in record numbers and increasing the diversity, but that a still significant number of kids come from Catholic Schools, notably in the Tri State area, many of which have fairly low tuition thanks to generous alumni, unlike private schools in other parts of the country which can run from 15-20 k per child, per year. Its frustrating when we do what we can. We cant all wear sack cloth for 20 years and eat potatoes and turnips from our backyard gardens and drive a 1968 volkswagen, but it seems that some schools expect you to do that. On the other hand, some people spend every dime they earn and if they are earning 150k or more a year, they are spending at least that much on cars, vacations, mortgage, private school tuition, taxes and eating out. Then when their kids want to go to college they wake up and say, “wow! We have to pay for that too?” LOL. </p>
<p>We saved what we thought was a lot of money. But the problem is tuition ramped up in the last 10 years to the stratosphere, the cost of living ratcheted up and the stock market tanked at least twice. But its tough cookies. The rich get richer and the poor and URM’s get the lion’s share of aid. (Though the vast majority of them arent’ even going to college. So count your blessings.)</p>
<p>One pet pieve I have is when the rich get scholarships. I know schools want to attract the best talent…but its tough to swallow that people making more money than we can imagine somehow get the full rides. I see it where I live. </p>
<p>I don’t have the answers. Just empathy for those caught in the wedge. And I have to remind myself and others, that a college education is still not a right, its a privilege…and we should be grateful our kids got in somewhere and can afford at least a state flagship. Many don’t even get this far.</p>
<p>Amen ghostbuster.</p>
<p>Another problem I see is when you are trying to save diligently for all of your children, but when the first goes to college the administration sees all your assets as fair game. I need to save some for the others as well! I can’t blow it all on the first child.</p>
<p>^^^^ that is a common problem, for most people. THe only answer we get is that if the second goes to college and overlaps, then FAFSA lowers your EFC substantially. True. But its brutal. Neither FAFSA nor the colleges give one tooty about whether you have one kid, three kids or ten kids. To them, its all THEIR money if you have it to shell out. Thus our choice is a cold shower: give them the money and roll the dice on your other kids, or go to a less expensive state school or lower tier private who gave you money, and take the lumps. Its an elitist system for certain.</p>
<p>I know a particular story where grandparents who were loaded sent grandkids to private prep schools and paid tuition for mom and dad for 12 years, all over 10k a year, and I wonder if they even notified the IRS under the gift tax laws…and then when the kids went to college the parents filed FAFSA, said NOTHING about loaded grandparents, and got HUGE financial aid. Is that fair? Of course there is no law requiring granny to pay for college. But still…</p>
<p>Its an unfair system. But it is what it is. I wish I could tell you Fordham is worth the money. It is…but I also understand your predicament and decision to go elsewhere. </p>
<p>Congress could fix this with a stroke of the pen. But they won’t.</p>
<p>“Congress could fix this with a stroke of the pen.”</p>
<p>Call me a cynic, but I don’t think there is much that Congress can fix with or without a pen! 
</p>
<p>“On the other hand, some people spend every dime they earn and if they are earning 150k or more a year, they are spending at least that much on cars, vacations, mortgage, private school tuition, taxes and eating out.”</p>
<p>Listen, $150k looks a lot better on paper then it does in “real” life particularly in the NYC and surrounding areas where living expenses are very high. Not everyone making that money lives large. And not everyone making that money has significant funds left over to save either. I can assure you that many families on LI with income in the $150-$200k range are not what you would consider rich. We are certainly doing ok but money is still a factor in ALL decisions. </p>
<p>I am glad that Fordham gave my public school S merit aid. It’s still significantly higher than a SUNY but we think it will be worth it because it is a much better fit. And my kids are 4 years apart so even though I have another kid to get through college, I will have only one at a time in college for the next 8 years which apparently means I have less “need” than someone whose kids are spaced closer together. How is THAT fair especially if it means my possibly having to take PLUS loans? </p>
<p>I feel very blessed that not only was Fordham my S’s first choice school but financially it worked out for us as well. I know that is not the case for a lot of people out there and I feel for them. But please, don’t think that it won’t be a struggle for us, too, even with merit aid and what is considered a higher income!</p>
<p>I recognize that cost of living varies in geographical regions, as well as taxes. I’m just saying that some people, not necessarily you, have been living a life of full enjoyment without thinking of the future for many years (we have neighbors like that) and then one day they wake up and realize they are in trouble and expect colleges to foot the bill. As a society we are all too fat, dumb and happy, so to speak. </p>
<p>The point I was making, sandkmom, is that merit aid and financial aid are not nearly as objectively fair as may appear and a lot of decisions are “uneven” when you compare the facts of families sending kids to school. I am just glad we aren’t like Providence College (yet!) who raised tuition and room/board 19% this year! OH MY GOD! Who is minding THAT store? Bloated professors salaries, and huge basketball coaching salaries and full athletic scholarships to kids who probably wouldnt be admitted because of hideously low scores…don’t even get me started! Fordham’s athletic budget is reputed to be around 22 million a year. We are in the bottom of the barrel in athletic performance and its a losing proposition with ZERO income from television or bowl games. Its scandalous what some coaches make around the country. Not to say I don’t support athletics, because I do. I am just saying the national trend is way out of whack and they just pass the buck onto parents/students coming in the door. </p>
<p>Again, I think we should all be like the Ivy League. No merit aid, and just more financial aid for those truly in need. And for colleges to be better stewards of the money they do bring in. (I am not suggesting they go to hiring a bunch of adjunct professors, either. I want tenure track scholars…especially at this pricetag…but there has to be a way to curtail costs. Maybe its the health care increases that is killing their budget, I don’t know.)</p>
<p>We really risk as a society becoming very divided between the haves and have nots. And we ALL know what happens to societies that have been too fractured like that don’t we? Its not good.</p>
<p>And I am a capitalist and conservative. Not a socialist.</p>
<p>I definitely think that there is a lot of unfairness about the FA process but I’m not sure taking away merit aid for those who don’t “need” it, according to govt defined need, is the right answer either. To me it levels the playing field a bit and particularly helps those who are stuck in the middle. </p>
<p>I find it odd that paying for college is so different then paying for anything else. How many people with a zero balance in their checking account can walk out with a mercedes because they “need” transportation? OK, so I drive a Honda and I don’t “need” transportation but why shouldn’t I be as entitled to a luxury ride just because I have enough for a Honda? And who says the wealthy don’t like a bargain?!! That may well be the reason they are so rich in the first place!!! </p>
<p>This whole, we tell you the price but then you pay in full and you pay this much and you pay this much and you pay nothing…it seems so random and bizarre and there’s probably no real way to be fair about it to everyone anyway. I certainly don’t have the answers. Some truly deserving and bright students will be barred from a Fordham education because of cost. This is a sad but true fact. In the end, I guess, it is what is is, and nobody ever said life was fair. </p>
<p>I can only be thankful that when tuition payments start 6/1 there will be enough to cover the cost thanks to that merit aid they offered my S. And though there won’t be SO much left over that we won’t feel the pain, there will still be room to help others in need by way of charitable donations because that is who we are. Of course, there would be more if the govt didn’t waste so damn much of our $$ but that’s for another conversation! :)</p>
<p>I hear you. But I think you misunderstand what I am saying about merit aid. Ivy League schools give zero merit aid because everyone is basically brilliant. BUT they give out generous financial aid. That is what I am suggesting here. Stop the myth that an SAT score makes a difference and give aid to those who show financial need. Success in college is tied to maturity, self determination and your gpa/ course rigor in high school. Its NOT tied to SAT scores. Seen it a thousand times. And 50 points on an SAT can separate a merit scholarship from nothing? Come on, that is as bogus as Christmas in July. </p>
<p>If you got it, congratulations. But I would much prefer the money be spread out among those who show financial need, which may well include you. The FAFSA is a joke as well. Too many ways to for people to game the system (like grandparents wealth). I dont have all the answers, just a lot of questions.</p>
<p>And to think 10 years ago a Fordham education was less than half what it is today all in? </p>
<p>And like oldtown said earlier, neither FAFSA nor the schools give a damn if you have three kids to put through school. They look at what assets you have today and assume you can put that ALL towards your first child. Its absurd.</p>
<p>And don’t even get me started on the salaries and bonuses of wallstreet types, versus the salaries of cops, firefighters, teachers or even other professionals in in other regions. But enough whining. It is what it is. We only do what we can.</p>
<p>Since my S is not in the uberscore category, I can definitely agree that SAT is as random as it gets to predicting success in college! And it is sad that 50 points could prevent someone from qualifying for a scholarship or in my S’s case perhaps a higher scholarship award but I guess they have to cut it SOMEWHERE. </p>
<p>I see your point on the Ivies…I’m just not sure what you mean about money being spread among those who show financial need because THAT is the area that I feel is most unfair. You’ll still get people hiding assets and capitalizing on an imperfect system as well as people living frugally and saving for years who are then ultimately penalized because they can pay for their kid’s college. Nothing fair about that.</p>
<p>
I know what you are saying here, but with the current FAFSA system this would still leave a subset of families with realistically ONLY the public schools as options, regardless of the kid’s grades, fit, etc. I see no system whereby it would be “fair” for everyone, without going to something like the Canadian model, where all the schools are basically subsidized by the State.</p>
<p>The Ivy League and certain other schools can afford to be need blind because they have huge endowments. Unfortunately Fordham (and most other private schools) do not have that luxury.</p>
<p>Fordham has a healthy endowment. Its a lot healthier than they let on and I know schools with much more modest endowments who are much more generous with their financial aid and scholarships. Its a policy question. The Board of Directors has chosen to be stingy. Fordham ranks very low in the rankings of schools meeting needs. At Fordham you can have substantial need and have it being met about 40 percent or less. And Fordham places too much weight on the SAT score, often even ignoring very poor grades…and gives out scholarship money to people like that. They are very inconsistent in their policy application.</p>
<p>Some schools have a financial aid office which bends over backwards to be helpful and making sure all students have the funding they need to attend. Fordham is not that kind of school. They make a decision and thats it. Take it or leave it, or even leave school. They simply don’t care.</p>
<p>sandkmom: Yes people hide assets. Honest people get punished. There is no perfect system, but it would sure be helpful if fordham pledged to meet at least 75% of the need of EVERY student who files a FAFSA. Fordham ranks very low in meeting student financial need, which is monitored by outside organizations. Princeton Review gives Fordham a VERY low grade on financial assistance. </p>
<p>Meanwhile Fordham tuition has risen from the high 20’s to the high 30’s in 5 years. that is 10,000 a year, times four years that is an extra 40,000 to attend Fordham and the programs havent changed that much in 5 years. </p>
<p>I know many students who turned down Fordham’s offer of admission because their financial aid package was awful. Then you hear about kids with a 1390 SAT on at least a half ride, and some of them had mediocre grades in high school? Its discouraging. </p>
<p>To be fair, Fordham is not alone in this category. But I do know about some schools which are extremely generous with a much smaller endowment. And to people who suggest, “well go to that other school then” are missing the point. </p>
<p>Frankly its a national scandal. Financial aid is a game and the FAFSA is next to useless. When you see kids at Fordham with a TON OF STUDENT LOANS (too much in my opinion) but who are wonderful students with a high cumulative gpa, and then see kids on scholarship whose families are rolling in money its very discouraging. All because of an SAT score difference of what? 60 or 75 points? Puhleeze. </p>
<p>I am not suggesting we have the money like Harvard or Yale…billions in endowment. And appropriate financial stewardship is a duty of the Board. Can’t give it all away, even to worthy students. But really, I think they need to examine why the results are so fickle and arbitrary. In some cases, it depends on what high school you attended.</p>
<p>
Do you have examples of this, per se? Not questioning you, but not familiar with Fordham policies.</p>
<p>Its an official policy at Fordham to favor graduates of Jesuit prep schools around the country, as well as some of the superb catholic high schools (many of them in the NYC area). </p>
<p>Its anecdotal information I have. I don’t work inside admissions. I am sure you may get some people who will deny it, but its actually quite true. </p>
<p>It is what it is.</p>
<p>
C**p. DS is at a LaSallian one.</p>
<p>What Fordham needs to do is create a more dynamic financial aid system that combines merit and need. Fordham says they already do this, but it’s in fact a very limited system. </p>
<p>I might not have gone Fordham if they didn’t offer me merit aid. It’s prevented me from taking out at least $20,000 in loans–something I would have done had I chosen to go to some of the other schools I was accepted to. Merit aid really is an important factor in many talented students’ decisions to come to Fordham, and it should not be eliminated. </p>
<p>What Fordham needs to do is expand this. It’d be mathematical. (The following is just an example-- I’m guessing the real math that would go into this would be much more complicated.) They should take those students who they’ve accepted and find where they lie on a bell curve for how much Fordham wants them to come here-- a combination of SAT scores, GPA, extracurricular involvement (quantified on a scale of 1-10 or something), and other factors could go into this score. And then they should make another bell curve based on finances, and the applicant’s ability to shell out $200,000 to go here. The applicants who are the most talented and have the most need would obviously get the most money, and those who perhaps aren’t such great applicants and have no need would pay full tuition. Obviously, if a student was on the lower end of the curve in terms of academics, and was completely unable to pay tuition, they should get full aid. But perhaps we have a valedictorian who scored a 2400, but is also incredibly wealthy; they should get at least a 1/2 ride, if not a full one because the university wants to attract this student. Both extremes should be offered decent money.</p>
<p>But I think this idea would really benefit students who are in the middle, both economically and academically. They will still get a decent amount of aid based on academics and their financial situation. The extra money they get from merit may lead them to choose Fordham, over a school that only offers loans. Financial aid all too often leaves out the middle class, and I think this would be an innovative way to give the average families and average student better access to a unique education like that at Fordham.</p>
<p>Although I would like to know if anyone else on here thinks this is a decent idea, or if it’s even possible. Fordham would have to shell out more money to do this, especially if they’d be offering average students merit aid. And it may be too mathematical-- students whose GPA improved year to year, for instance, might be shortchanged when they really are talented students that admissions wants to see come here. Thoughts?</p>
<p>Sunshowers, I see how the top and bottom people in your scheme are figured out, but I don’t think I get how those in the middle are benefited. What is used to determine who can pay? The FAFSA EFC?</p>
<p>Well at last I can find something to agree with sunshowers about. Hooray! LOL. That is precisely what I have been suggesting/recommending for some time here on CC. Not just for Fordham but all schools. My real issue with Fordham Financial Aid is they seem so arbitary on who gets the aid and who doesnt. Its all over the place. </p>
<p>And going to a LaSallian School doesnt mean someone won’t get aid. LaSallians are Catholic schools and that will help you, not hurt you. </p>
<p>No school “owes” anyone a free ride or reduced tuition. FAFSA is grossly inadequate. My beef is that the policy needs to be applied fairly and evenly across the board. </p>
<p>There are too many kids at Fordham walking around with a huge amount of money from Fordham who don’t need the money, and too many walking around with heavy debt burdens. And the disparity between them on gpa’s is minimal. In some cases, kids with the scholarships havent done as well. (This is anecdotal, by the way…) </p>
<p>I know some people in financial aid at OTHER schools and they tell me what the regs are and what is “discretionary” (policy) of the school. Fordham fits more in the latter category than in the former. </p>
<p>Fordham is a great school. But very few kids will graduate and get uber high income jobs/careers in Wallstreet or major network communications. Everyone else is going to be looking for work in average to low average salary ranges. That makes the expense of a Fordham education a question mark if they are making you take on debt. </p>
<p>I love Fordham. I don’t like what happens with Financial Aid however.</p>