<p>While I agree that students should check to ensure the work they turn in is legible…what that Prof did in forcing your son to write that state is excessive and quite infantilizing. This is supposed to be a university, NOT ELEMENTARY SCHOOL!! I’m also disturbed by the powertripping overtones of that Prof’s actions and the fact the Prof didn’t think to consider that it may be his eyes which need to be checked…not his student’s poor handwriting. </p>
<p>Assuming your son’s telling you the whole truth, of course.</p>
<p>I sincerely doubt DS would make up a lie involving having to write an apology across the top of his homework, and he admits his handwriting is small. He’s working on making it bigger. I agree with you that the prof’s actions were excessive and belittling.</p>
<p>You know, it just occurred to me . . . Part 2 Professor is from Eastern Europe. Could this play a part in his demeaning manner?</p>
<p>I don’t think his Eastern European origin has any bearing on this. </p>
<p>It may be more the fact that being from outside the US from a society where only the top 20% or so of high school graduates go on to university and are expected to accord much more respect/deference to faculty than is the case in the US. </p>
<p>Considering the surprising levels of disrespect I’ve* seen many American undergrads accord TAs, Profs, and university staff…it wouldn’t surprise me if he’s overreacting by misinterpreting your son’s small handwriting as another perceived “slight” by another “disrespectful American undergrad”. </p>
<ul>
<li>I say this as someone who’s born and raised in the US…but raised in Chinese-American home where the parents are more likely to believe the teacher/Prof’s assessments before those of their own kids unless proven otherwise. Moreover, I got a taste of that disrespect once at an Ivy when I was mistaken for a TA in a history course by a rude irate undergrad because I supposedly gave him a C on a paper. IMHO…that TA was being overly generous and I was quite blunt in giving that undergrad a piece of my mind.</li>
</ul>
<p>Also, there’s 7 sections of Calc 3. None of them expect 1 fit in their schedule? They have Calc 3 every semester including spring and summer I believe, they had to take it now?</p>
<p>I don’t doubt that the guy is awful, but I’m sure they had options. That’s not an excuse and I think it’s disappointing that some departments continue to have awful professors teach classes, but in this case there surely was a way around it.</p>
Why is it demeaning to have to apologize to the TA? </p>
<p>I once had a student who wrote in pencil at about a size 8 font. It was extremely difficult to read. I tolerated it because he was rather endearing otherwise. Since the professor was involved in this 3-way, it seems like perhaps the TA complained to him that S wrote so small that it was difficult for him to grade. </p>
<p>Comments regarding eyesight notwithstanding, it shouldn’t be a struggle just to read the stuff.</p>
<p>Well, since no one liked my sue 'em all suggestion (1), nor grabbed their videocam phones and started bombarded YouTube (suggestion 2), I would agree that sometimes rotten teachers/bosses/co-workers must be dealt with. Suggestions would be to try harder to avoid them. Perhaps scheduling decisions need to be prioritized around these most egregious offenders. Also, it’s a good idea for students to learn to take responsibility for any errors, slight or otherwise. With small handwriting, as an example, can your S use a pc and print out his essays? I’m wondering if your S’s reaction to the prof is bringing extra grief. If S is not immediately contrite and apologetic, some profs might consider him resistant and/or insolent. Not saying he comes across this way at all–but the demand for a written apology makes it seem the prof did not feel S was concerned enough. Learning how to communicate with superiors is a good lesson. Showing respect and compliance is appropriate in the face of irritated bosses/professors/wives. Oops. That slipped in.</p>
<p>Sorry the kids are going through so many difficulties. It can be difficult to discern how much of any problem is brought on (inadvertently!!) by our own young people. And the whole picture can get pretty muddy in the retelling. But it sounds like they have had a lot to deal with.</p>
<p>Why didn’t you simply ask the student to write bigger? It’s not a big request.</p>
<p>@Vladenschlutte - some students start college with most of their gen eds done. Since they begin taking departmental courses first semester freshman year, they have to fit Calc 3 around that scheduling. Some students are also working on a minor or a second Bachelors so they have very tight schedules, as well. In the case of Calc 3 during DS’ freshman year, all professors teaching during his open time slot were awful. The students found that attending one prof’s lecture instead of another prof’s lecture was pointless. The class averages for all Calc 3 classes fitting his open time slot were about the same - well below 50%. That is poor teaching on a wide scale. </p>
<p>@madbean - perhaps DS was insolent, but that would be a far cry from his usual behavior. He is usually respectful and well-liked. He just wants to learn the information. That’s it. That’s his whole agenda. Except for this hand-writing saga, DS doesn’t take any of this personally. Many of DS’ and DD’s complaints are about how they see other students are treated. DD said she had to walk out of her Calc 3 prof’s office because it was too awful to watch how the prof tore into the student ahead of her when the student asked a question about the homework. She felt terrible for that student. DS has observed similar incidents. </p>
<p>Take away what you want from this thread, but I still think it is very interesting that someone who attended this university 50 years ago (and is extremely successful in his field) told me teaching has never been a priority at this institution. For some students, working with profs who care if they learn the information will be important. If they are looking for large-scale, across-the-board positive interactions with their profs, then this may not be the university for them.</p>
<p>I completely believe this person made that statement, and I understand how some schools build their reputation on research, but I find it so sad. If teaching isn’t a priority, then neither is learning. </p>
<p>How do we find that out before it’s too late? If schools thought the new “buzz word” was teaching, they’d claim they’re all about teaching and learning, but it’s just like saying they offer cool outward bound style orientation trips or free ice cream – it’s the latest trend that every school has to have in order to catch the attention of college bound kids and their parents.</p>
<p>Imagine if a car manufacturer said “we’re all about go. Stopping isn’t a priority.”</p>
<p>I was at my son’s school several years ago and walked by a bulletin board with attached job postings. There were a list of requirements and I assumed that the order of the requirements indicated the priority. Teaching experience was either at the bottom or it wasn’t there. The first two were published papers and ability to get grants. That told me the priorities of the department. Departments don’t always have openings so that may not work in a given year.</p>
<p>BTW, this wasn’t all that bad for our son who is into research work. I never realized how bad it could be on the teaching side though. He had this one professor that has universally dismal ratings and comments on RateMyProfessor.com but the guy is great with research and my son used to chat with him in the cafeteria from time to time.</p>
<p>@BCEagle91- DS has found two profs he can converse with about his area of interest. They seem to enjoy talking with him and he finds they often carry on the conversation longer than DS planned. I guess they get into talking about their areas of expertise and DS gets the benefit of that! </p>
<p>DS actually took Exam 3 Prof’s class because he had introduced himself to the prof a couple of semesters earlier so he could ask him a few questions about his area of expertise. (DS was self-teaching/learning for another course where the prof left much to be desired.) The prof took the time to answer DS’ questions. DS was impressed and became very excited about taking Exam 3 Prof’s class. What a disappointment to find the prof was a poor teacher and terrible test writer. Even more disappointing was the prof’s attitude about the lousy exam he wrote. DS was doing so well in the course until Exam 3 Prof screwed up. </p>
<p>Too bad they don’t force profs to take an Intro to Teaching course. I suspect many of these profs have no idea how people learn or even how to write an exam. Because they teach highly intelligent students who are able to self-teach and, thus, pass the course, these profs never figure out (or just plain don’t care) that they are lousy teachers. Such a shame. They have so much to offer their students, and I suspect that most students, like DS, are initially very excited to study with them.</p>
<p>@Classof2015 - Perhaps now that the college ranking system has been officially debunked, prospective students will look to other sources for information about prospective schools. Forums such as College Confidential could turn out to be a great source of information about teaching standards at colleges and universities. Word of mouth is often the best recommendation one can receive. If we had known teaching was not a priority at this university, and hasn’t been for quite some time, DS might have chosen to go to another institution. He turned down quite a few offers, in fact, because he believed he was going to get a great education at his current institution. It’s a hard lesson to learn.</p>
<p>I’m not sure that makes much of a difference…especially if that’s offered through a given university’s Ed school. </p>
<p>From what I’ve observed from my undergrad at an LAC and taking summer/grad classes at some elite universities, the worst Profs/instructors in higher ed were far better than the middling K-12 teachers I’ve had…much less the worst ones. </p>
<p>What’s more sad is that nearly everyone I know who was/is a K-12 teacher or Prof who took such “how to teach” courses found them to be quite useless once they started their actual teaching assignments.</p>