I have another question about marriage customs, specifically from the Ellie storyline in The One.
When Ellie and Tim get engaged, he says to her: “I asked your dad’s permission on Christmas Eve, and he said yes” (p. 245).
Later, Ellie and her sister have this exchange:
“I thought he’d ask for Dad’s permission to marry you first.”
“He did, when we came up for Christmas.”
“That’s not what Dad said. It’s not a big deal or anything, we were just a bit disappointed.” (p. 261)
So my question is two-fold:
Why would Tim, with his intricate and organized vengeance plot, risk a lie that was SO easily traceable?
Is this still a thing? It seems like such an anachronism. I realize that in some circles, it might still exist as a symbolic-only tradition, but Ellie is a fiercely independent, powerful, wealthy career woman, with minimal attachment to her parents. Why on earth would the family be “just a bit disappointed” that the fiancé didn’t ask for permission first?
Anybody here have a spouse who requested permission from dad? Mine did not (and that was 38 years ago, practically the Victorian times ).
My brother asked for permission. He likes to do old-fashioned things and keep up traditions. He and his wife love rituals and ceremonies. They had special things they did for holidays no one else in their birth families did. My SIL’s father thought it was weird, but I think my SIL liked the idea too. I thought it was weird that Ellie would have cared, and I sure don’t think it makes sense that Tim would have lied about it, except to the extent that it was fun for him to see how deep in his claws Ellie was. He probably enjoyed the thrill.
My dad was not alive when I got engaged. My husband did not ask my mother’s permission. We invited my mom, my sister, and my husband’s parents to a play in Boston and announced our engagement at dinner afterwards.
My parents divorced (bitterly divorced) about 10 years before I married. I had no father around to ask. On the other hand, both my son-in-laws did show up and not so much ask permission but rather let us know that an engagement would happen within the next few weeks. Not permission per se but a desire to include us (parents) in what their parents already knew and expected. (Both young men had mothers that had seen the rings.)
As someone who witnessed these events, I find it amazing how nervous the young men got when declaring their intentions (and we knew and liked one particularly well). Both seemed to come with a script and then froze somewhat if they forgot what came next. I found it adorably cute.
One of my sons did call his future in-laws – more to inform them than ask their permission. He and the girl had been together for eight or nine years by that point. I thought it was charming that he did that.
With the other son, his girl friend-soon-to-be-wife would have killed him if he had asked “permission”! She was adamant that she didn’t “belong” to anyone!!
One of my problems with both books: characters like Pat, Christopher, Timothy (The One) and Tarek and Sheila (Ayesha at Last) were over-the-top evil. They became caricatures rather than characters.
I wondered the same thing. She is a teacher, with no interest in the profession. She is a poet, but her poetry isn’t very good. Sorry, Ayesha, the truth hurts.
This is another discussion question that I found puzzling. I read the book only two weeks ago, but all I can remember is that Nani is Ayesha’s grandmother who show Khalid how to make tasty parathas. “Further adventures”?
My H can’t remember asking my dad for my hand and we both think dad would have been puzzled and concerned if H had asked. H just asked me and together we told both sets of parents.
Surprising – and yet not. The book is formulaic, but as my sister always likes to remind me (when I use that word disdainfully), the formula continues to thrive because it has universal appeal.
Khalid and Ayesha’s chaste relationship might also be part of what has made the book popular. Kind of nice for a change to have a couple that doesn’t fall into bed at the first opportunity. It’s a book you can pass off to your elderly mom or your pre-teen daughter without qualms.
Contrast that with The One, which isn’t exactly “family friendly.”
@ignatius, I stand corrected. That reviewer is right. Zareena’s abortion and Amir’s porn infatuation take it out of YA territory. I had been thinking only about the main romance and forgot about the tangential characters.
That reminds me, one thing that bothered me about Ayesha was her gullibility where Tarek is concerned. She barely knows him, but when he makes up a terrible lie about a monstrous act–Khalid allowing Zareena to be beaten until she miscarries–Ayesha believes him: “Ayesha knew with certainty that he was telling the truth” (p. 254).
I guess that plot development is supposed to mirror Elizabeth Bennett believing Wickham’s lies, but it doesn’t work here. Elizabeth believed Wickham until she got to know Darcy, whereas Ayesha already knows Khalid when Tarek makes his accusation – they’ve already had their lovely cooking evening with Nani, a Twinkie flirtation in the car, etc.
I know these miscommunications and misunderstandings are what move the plot along and give us our comedy-drama, but I wish some of the twists and turns were a little more believable.
@ignatius this is a insightful article from a Muslim librarian, and I’m happy to see her comments.
I had forgotten the scandals regarding Kahlid’s, as pointed out she doesn’t feel appropriate YA lit.
She wrote
”love that every Muslim and desi character in the book is different and unique and not a cookie cutter of stereotypes and tropes. Most of the females cover, but they are nuanced in how they do it, what it means, how they carry themselves etc., some shake hands with males some don’t, some are comfortable in bars, some are more reserved, some have never had a boyfriend, some have, and they really show the reader that Islam is a deeply personal conviction and the rules are interpreted and challenged differently for each person. It also shows different male approaches and the internal struggles of doing what you want to do and what you know you should or shouldn’t do in a very realistic non preachy way.
My favorite relationship by far is that of Ayesha and Clara, I love that Ayesha’s non Muslim friend knows that Khadijah (RA) proposed to Prophet Muhammad (SAW) and jokes about rishtas and frequently asks “What would Nana do.” Seriously, as someone of Paki background, who started covering in high school, who is half American and proud to be Muslim, this is friendship goals!
Re: asking permission to marry … I have pretty strong feelings about this. My H did not approach my father/parents before we got engaged. I would have been really ticked if he had.
When our D got engaged several years ago, my H was a bit annoyed that our now SIL didn’t ask him – partly because a number of our friends’ daughters had recently gotten engaged and the future SILs had asked. Boy did I let H have it! I would have been horrified on D’s behalf if her now H had asked!! IMO it’s a horrible “tradition” that reinforces the concept of women as property. (Yeah, don’t get me started on this.)
They don’t. You would have to tackle such a project yourself with sites like 23andMe or the Donor Sibling Registry. And those databases are far from complete, as many “donor babies” don’t sign up – many don’t even know that’s how they were conceived.
Coincidentally, this is a main article in the Chicago Tribune this week:
“There’s nothing in the U.S. or anywhere that would keep a donor from donating at more than one sperm bank,” said Wendy Kramer, a co-founder and the executive director of the Donor Sibling Registry, an organization that supports donor families in the United States.
In case there is a pay wall, here is a passage pertinent to our discussion:
At least one sperm donor in the Netherlands, known as Louis, is thought to have more than 200 offspring, many of whom are unaware of one another. Six years ago Ivo van Halen, a 36-year-old Dutch information technology consultant, learned that he was among them. Since then, he has managed to connect directly with 42 of his half-siblings.
“It’s been a shock to learn how to integrate 42 brothers and sisters into your life,” van Halen said in an interview. “There are no books on how to do that. Our group is at 70 known children already, and getting new matches every month.”
Some of his half-siblings have encountered each other multiple times on Tinder, the dating app. One half-brother, Jordy Willekens, who lives in The Hague, matched online with four half-sisters. “Once, I swiped on a sister and she swiped right on me at the same time,” Willekens said.
The group keeps a list of potential siblings to refer to before going on a date. Willekens, who is now in a relationship, said he had been very careful when dating: “I have a very trained eye by now.”
I liked the article from the Muslim reviewer. I agree with her that it was interesting to see the variety of ways to be Muslim and to what extent you honor your roots and choose to keep the traditions of your origins.
My favorite relationship in both books is the tight friendship between Ayesha and Clara.
In The One none of the female characters seem to have that solid female friendship or close family ties. Perhaps “bad stuff” could have been prevented if they had.
The Pride and Prejudice overreach that bothers me (more than Ayesha believing Tarek’s lies, though I noticed that also) is when Khalid “arranges” Rob and Clara’s marriage. I assume that made its way into the book because Darcy facilitates the reunion of Mr. Bingley and Jane. However, Darcy and Bingley are best friends while Khalid barely knows Rob. It didn’t work for me.
Yes! If one or two storylines had involved a strained relationship with family, that would be understandable. But they all did. Dysfunction reigns.
Jade resents her parents and they are “barely on speaking terms.”
Ellie’s high power job leaves no time for her family, with whom there is “a lack of mutual understanding.”
Mandy lies repeatedly to to her sisters and feels “more and more alienated from her family.”
Amy has zero contact with her family – supposedly one reason her relationship with Christopher will never be discovered.
^ And a side note on that score…When the waitress is murdered, wouldn’t Amy have mentioned the crazy coincidence to her fellow detectives, and provided all the details of her dining there? It pre-dates any suspicions about Christopher, and there would have been no reason not to mention him by name – a name of someone that would have turned up dead later. Aargh, stop me from going down the logical / illogical rabbit hole.
).