<p>Thanks everyone!<br>
Tokaicarbon - be sure that your ADHD son is diagnosed and that you have a 504 plan in place with his school. It is my understanding that, in college, you have to have had a 504 plan in place in hs and have a recent (within 3 years) diagnosis of the disability (ADHD in this case) inb order to take advantage of any special services offered by the school. Emeraldkty's D is also ADHD, I believe...</p>
<p>Also, just to let you guys know, my S just got accepted to his safety, a CSU...it's a financial safety, too - feels good to know that he has somewhere to go this fall!</p>
<p>i'm a jr at a prep school with a 223 psat and i expect to get about a 1500 next weekend on the SAT. My average is an 88 (is that a 3.3?) or so this year but throughout high school its about 84. Will i be competitive at top schools (dartmouth, uva, william and mary) considering my mediocer grades? i will have a fair amount of ecs, sports, and a good recs.</p>
<p>"madjoy, did you have any really amazing ECs? or an alumn connection?</p>
<p>honestly, no offense meant. i just am in a similar situation - high standardized tests, but average grades (lots of B's, and a C- in precalc, ick). i'm hoping against hope for a chance at middlebury ED II. any advice?"</p>
<p>I was going to apply to Middlebury ^_^ Hmm, my extracurriculars were good, but nothing insanely amazing. No sports or anything, but I'm editor-in-chief of my paper, co-founded an Amnesty International chapter, do some volunteering with an autistic child, and am an officer with the Environmental Club and the Animal Alliance. No alum connection.</p>
<p>However, as far as I know, the college never saw my individual marking period grades (ex. my D), but only my final grades (which were in the B range). Plus, though I got a B- overall in both AP Bio and AP US History, I got 5s on the AP exams.</p>
<p>Hope that helps? I was around 13th percentile in my class, and had a downward trend in grades. I hadn't handed in various major assignments, and handed more in late. :( I never meant to... it just... :S</p>
<p>1560, 800/750/750 but uw gpa of 3.2something. which sucks. a lot. this thread gives me hope - i'm applying to wes and penn, so madjoy and duckstamper you just made my life. i've got pretty great ecs and hopefully essays too (and weighted my gpa rises to 4.2), and way lofty goals.... heres to us!</p>
<p>Class rank would give us much more information than your GPAs. At a school like Andover a 3.5 would be just fine for top schools although it probably wouldn't be at an average high school with grade inflation where there are many 4.0 plus students.</p>
<p>class rank by itself is deceiving at some schools. Ours ranks based on unweighted GPA, so kids who got As in the VERY easy regular classes rank above those who got Bs in extremely hard classes.</p>
<p>I don't think a 3.5 is a "bad" or B-, C average. A B- average is a 2.9. My older son got into Vandy and Mich with about a 2.8 in a rigorous program, 1420 board scores, and a fabulous, unusual academic-related EC. </p>
<p>He did not accept admission to either of those schools, but chose a tier 2 1000 miles from home that offered him great merit aid. There, he didn't bother to study or to go to class, and decided to "drop out" after freshman year. He works minimum wage jobs now and says college is unnecesary.</p>
<p>A friend of his who had about a 2.0 average, great test scores, no ECs, was accepted to several tier 3 colleges out of state, but his parents made him stay home and go to community college. He got straight As and transferred to our state flagship, a top 50, where he is a senior making honor grades and planning to go to law school next year.</p>
<p>One may be able to get into decent 4-year colleges with great scores, mediocre grades. Whether one stays in, however, will depend on one's work ethic. IMO probably the majority of students with high scores, low grades, are too immature to go away to college, and would be better off taking a structured year off or going to community college while living at home for the first year or two.</p>
<p>High intellegence in the absence of organization skills and motivation is not a recipe for college success.</p>
<p>I agree with Northstarmom. Unless the student is able to make a turnaround, those bad habits will really sink him in college. Sometimes the student is terribly bored in highschool and when given the opportunity to work on challeging material in a field of interest, he can shine. That is what colleges hope when they extend offers to underachievers. Unfortunately the track record shows otherwise in what actually happens. Most kid are not just bored who get low grades. They are unorganized, lazy, unfocused and undisciplined without any interest in pursuing academics despite a high potential to do well. The exception to this has been with low gpa kids from the very rigorous prep schools. The ones who are too unmotivated to do the work are generally flushed out, as these schools tend to be relentless in tracking the work the student is doing and the difficulty levels make it very difficult for even very bright kids to coast. Even the kids with low grades tend to make it through college, and do better far better than kids with comparable stats. I see this in the stats of these kids going to college and completing college. Many of these schools have a 5 year college graduation rate of over 95% and they can track where 98% of their kids are in college at any given time. My son's school gives every senior a college directory that lists all of the kids who have graduated from the school and are currently in college. The seniors can then contact these kids for college information and visits. It is a wonderful resource that my son used extensively in his college visits which made them valuable and less expensive. The notable thing about this directory is that nearly everyone who graduated from that school is either in college, graduated from college or in some gap year program. Very few drifters beyond a one year stint. And so I have seen with a number of similar schools. Big contrast to my other son's highschool where nearly half the kids have either dropped out or transferred to a local school and are usually going part time. The same with the public school. I am always seeing former college students back home pumping gas, working the stores, delivering the pizza after it did not work going away.</p>
<p>3.2 uw 3.6 w GPA with an F, a few Cs, and the rest a mix of Bs/As
1530 SAT, 770/770/710 SAT2s.<br>
it wasn't because I was stupid in hs, just lazy and didn't really care. i went to a top public school in CA too, there's no doubt in my mind that I (and many of my friends) could have been valedictorians had we attended an average CA public hs. I decided once I got to college (UCLA) that I owed it to myself to live up to my potential, and have been getting good grades ever since. Last quarter I finished near the top of one of my classes (out of about 90 people).</p>
<p>There are also instances,I imagine, that students w/ low GPA's did not do daily homework or projects but could shine on tests, both standardized and school tests...my brother was one of those...and did get thru college just fine...guess he grew up. Hoping my son takes after him!</p>
<p>And thank you too ASAP - sometimes I get very frustrated with the negativity on this board toward the kids who are lazy, immature, or otherwise not stellar examples of motivation and/or living up to their potential. Not every kid who has a C average, or who has flunked a class belongs in community college, IMO. There just might be kids who will improve, like Brandnew, when they are out from under parental scrutiny...different kids, different results, I guess.</p>
<p>I actually had a decreasing record.
~92 average (3.5 UW) freshmen year
~94 average (3.83 UW) soph year
~89 average (3.2 UW) junior year->low Bs in 2 courses, 2 high Bs, one A
~92 average (3.8 UW) 1st quarter grades</p>
<p>Got into Penn, no hooks, not a URM, alumni, etc</p>
<p>"here just might be kids who will improve, like Brandnew, when they are out from under parental scrutiny...different kids, different results, I guess."</p>
<p>While it's true that some low gpa, high SAT students perform well when they go away to a 4-year college right after high school, the odds are not in their favor. In general, the best predictor of college gpa is h.s. gpa.</p>
<p>When it comes to making a decision that could cost as much as $40 k a year plus affect a young person's life in a major way, I think that parents are wise who are conservative about taking risks with low academically performing offspring.</p>
<p>Having to prove themselves by starting off living at home and attending a nearby 4-year or 2-year college isn't likely to hurt a student who was performing in h.s. way under their potential. If they do well, they can transfer to a better school a distance away.</p>
<p>Sending a disorganized, immature student to a college far from home brings risks that are far worse than is the risk of having a bright student living at home attending a college that is less academically rigorous than the student is capable of handling.</p>
<p>Remember, I post as a parent who IMO made the mistake of allowing a low performing, very bright, very high SAT student go far away to the college of his choice, where he promptly flunked out. He now lives a marginal life far from home.</p>
<p>As always NSMom - your experience and knowledge is very much appreciated. It is tough to figure out what is best.</p>
<p>Tokaicarbon - someone more knowledgeable than I can give you a much better explanation about what a 504 plan is; however, I know that, in the case of my son, first we had to have him diagnosed as having ADHD by a professional (i.e. psychologist) and the psychologist had to write up the diagnosis. Then we took it to his school and requested that he be eligible for services under 504. 504 is federally mandated for students with disabilities and requires public schools to provide special services/accommodations to these students. In my son's case, we were able to have a second set of textbooks to keep at home; he is able to get additional time on tests, if needed/requested, and a few other things. He also qualified for extended time on the SAT II writing. </p>
<p>The first step is the diagnosis by a professional; your son's school counselor can probably give you additional information/direction. Also, post your question on the Parents Forum here; there are many parents there who are much more knowledgeable than I about 504. Good luck!</p>