BA, BFA, or BS-please educate me

Parents Forum
21

Skimmed the posts. BA or BS. It depends on the school. Your child needs to check the course requirements at each school being considered. I got a BA in Chemistry with Honors because I chose to- met requirements for both BA and BS. The major’s requirements were the same but the breadth requirements differed- science, humanities, social science and humanities in L&S at UW-Madison. Other schools may only offer a BS or a BA depending on the major or have different credits in the major.

Don’t worry about the degree. Focus on comparing required and available courses related to the proposed major.

22

If the same school offers both BA and BS degree programs in the same major, compare degree requirements carefully to see what the difference is.

For BA at one school versus BS at another school, the title BA or BS is not really a relevant distinction, compared to the actual course and curriculum content of each school’s degree program.

23

So one thing I see (and this is comparing schools in the same major, not necessarily schools that we know we can afford):

Purdue’s total hours required for the Professional Program for the BA in Industrial Design is 75. (not seeing how many total units required for the degree)

CSULB’s program is 10 semesters long, and required 96 units for the major & 132 units total.

SJSU’s BS in Industrial Design has 69 units for the major and 120 total.

In the BS degrees, I see CAD and Physics, but not in the BA. CSULB has a capstone after year four. Year five is mostly advanced design and visualization. I don’t know why they need so many units, though.

So can I conclude that maybe Purdue’s program is more art and less art/science? Would that be limiting for someone that might want to work with computers more? Purdue does require a year of math/stats as well as a year of science.

Is CSULB’s program “superior” because they require more classes in the major?

Just not sure how to interpret the data.

24

It does look like there is some sort of major-specific accreditation for industrial design majors:
http://nasad.arts-accredit.org/index.jsp?page=List_Accredited_Members

Not sure how important it is.

Some of the degree programs may be 4.5 year programs (e.g. those with substantially more than 120 units), so be sure to consider that with respect to affordability (unless he can overload and complete all course work in 4 years).

25

I believe I looked them all up before and they were all accredited.

CSULB is the one that’s five years. My son would bring in some credits, but probably not quite a year, though it would depend on how they treated his physics class. Both CSULB and SJSU require a specific broader but less math physics than my son had. (He had one semester of trig-based; theirs are algebra based, but at least SJSU’s covers more topics) I guess I would be very hesitant to let him try a program that was 5 years.

But we don’t have the finances on either of those schools.

My oldset son thinks Purdue would be a great idea, but I just wonder about the BA vs. BS for that degree.

Then again, ICAM is a BA.

He still hasn’t 100% ruled out engineering, either.

So many decisions…

26

Rather than adding up credits, I am sure you have looked up the actual courses. How do they look at each school? Does looking at course descriptions help you son clarify at all. This is tough and wishing you luck!

27

Not yet. He is slowly processing. I hesitate to share this, but it does give insight in to ever creative and changing world inside my son’s head. On the drive back from Fullerton, we drive next to the ocean. He stares out the window and says, “If I did do engineering, I’d want to do naval or ocean engineering. There’s so little we really know about the ocean and someone had to help design the crafts that explore it” or something to that effect. He’s one big dreamer. Hard to pin him down, but that’s what needs to happen. At least our daily conversations are never boring.

28

SB- I’ve posted this before on other threads you’ve started but I will repeat it again.

In my opinion, your son will benefit from being at a big university with lots of disciplines and lots of majors. I see no evidence that he’s ready to commit to a specific program (particularly if it lands him at a university which might not be a great fit if he decides he doesn’t like the courses in the program) with a particular vocational outcome.

Naval Engineering is not game animation which is not industrial design. Having your son discover late sophomore year that he’s in a mismatch of a program could easily add an extra year or two to his undergrad. Forget worrying about a Master’s degree or a BA vs. a BS vs. a BFA.

29

But large public universities seem particularly bent on locking a student into a major, at least the UCs and Cal States are that way. I have no idea about Purdue. I just assumed you are locked into the major.

I totally agree with you. The schools that would seem to be the best fit are the larger privates that my son isn’t likely to get into. Well, Univ. of Rochester would be a great one for exploration, but we don’t yet know if it’s affordable.

This is yet another reason he wanted a gap year, but public schools don’t gererally allow it, as far as I know.

You’ve described the dilemma in a nutshell-the schools that might be the best fit academically and finanally are impossible to get into. The schools that he’s gotten into (for the most part) are ones that lock you into a major, or if they don’t, might be more costly in the end if he switches majors as he’d be there longer.

Specifically, what schools are you thinking of, @Blossom? In his list, what would fall under the category of a large school where he could explore majors for a year, year and a half, and then declare a major by the end of sophomore year?

I mean, let’s take Princeton. You don’t apply to a major (even if you express an interest). You can take some GEs while you explore majors, and then probably by end of sophomore year, you’ve declared a major.

Compare that with UCSD. You apply to a major. You’re in the major. If you want to try other majors, well, good luck with that if they’re impacted.

Am I wrong? Seriously enlighten me.

My oldest at MIT had that flexibility to explore and in fact, is adding a double major this year as a junior.

30

Sbjdorlo- one thing I notice with my youngest who junior year still is struggling finding the right major for her is that even at large universities the core requirements vary tremendously. Some have so many required courses that it leaves no room for any exploration while others allow for a large amount of electives of your choice from any discipline. I know at Purdue you can change majors. My D had many in her program that had started as engineering majors.
One concern I would have is that most design programs become project heavy that are time consuming and sometimes involve long hours into the night. For a student with disabilities it is sometimes suggested they take a reduced courseload. You need to factor that into the financial aid equation. Also I would plan on summer school at the CC to help with reducing his load.

31

If reduced course load is due to disability, then financial aid has to cover the extra semester (s). Not sure if that is relevant but for anyone reading this…

32

Actually, only a few majors at UCSD are impacted:
https://students.ucsd.edu/academics/advising/majors-minors/impacted-majors.html

However, students changing majors do need to keep track of prerequisites for all majors they may change to, in order to graduate on time.

Purdue has a “first year engineering” program for intended engineering majors. Students who make a high enough GPA are guaranteed entry into their choice of engineering (except biomedical). Others are admitted on a space available basis.

33

Whew-just to add to the confusion, son was accepted into Northeastern’s Game Design today. Aid is right on the border of being affordable-covered a little more than tuition, but room and board is not cheap-yikes. Still, it will stay on the list and we need to look closely at it.

Good to know about UCSD! I was envisioning my son being able to at least take a few courses in CS, maybe in engineering, music, etc. in his first year. Even though the majors aren’t impacted, I wonder about getting into classes as a freshman. Since he’ll register with disability office, I don’t know if that will give him priority enrollment or not. It does at the local CC, but not sure about universities.

@Mom60, you bring up a really good point. We are trying to have honest conversations about the work load. He’s a night owl, so it wouldn’t be the working late into the night. It would be the not getting enough sleep that would be the issue. That’s a real concern.

@compmom, is that federal law? That would be a safety net we would want if at all possible.

My son has much potential, but life and learning will never be a cakewalk.

34

http://blink.ucsd.edu/instructors/courses/enrollment/add-drop-change.html indicates that students with disabilities are among those with priority enrollment at UCSD.

UCSD has a two-pass enrollment system where all students can enroll in up to 11.5 units in the first pass, before any student gets to enroll the rest of his/her schedule in the second pass. Enrollment start times this quarter are listed at http://blink.ucsd.edu/instructors/courses/enrollment/start.html .

35

My daughter is at a smaller tech school. She originally was going to do chem engineering, but decided to do the 1st semester of general engineering just to see what was available and what she’d enjoy the most. She liked building, so went with civil. She may change again.

But it’s not like she’s trying psychology, history, or dance as majors. She knows she wants to be an engineer. She has a little room to take a class or two, but really that’s it or she’s going to run into course sequence problems. I think in the entire chem engineering program there are 6 electives, and 3 of those are the choice of ‘this or that’ within the major. I think she can take THREE outside electives, like a history class. Almost every semester is 17 or 18 credits so not able to sneak in an art class or dance (not that these are offered anyway)

My other daughter is totally the opposite, but she doesn’t have a lot of extra classes either. She has to take about 65 credits in dance and theater for a BFA, but her university has core requirements so not a lot of time for ‘exploring.’ She can take a state history class or a state government class to meet a requirement, and this writing class or that one, but really there aren’t a lot of choices. French or Italian or Spanish, but still has to have a language. If she decided to switch majors, it’s likely she’d have taken all her electives already as theater classes, and would just have to take the courses required for the new major. It is not like she can just try a class here or there and still graduate on time.

I don’t think you are going to find the perfect school that offers him everything, and is free at that. Look at all your offers and decide which meets the most ‘wants’ and that you can afford. If you don’t think he can self regulate to get enough sleep and take care of his health, that should trump everything and he should stay near home…

36

@ucbalumnus, I just want to thank you so much for your help over the years. I am deeply grateful for the research that you do to help others. It is no small thing.

Thanks again.

37

Agreed, @twoinanddone. We’re talking about it.

38

The beauty of Fullerton or Long Beach is he can have the experience of being away at school but also the ability to hop on the train and go home for a weekend here and there to rest and rejuvenate. He also would probably be able to keep his same doctors.
What my S liked about his BFA and my D about the BS programs at their schools was that they were one of the few programs that did not have a foreign language requirement.
Also if he ultimately wants to work in Ca I would ask the OOS programs how many of their students are recruited at Ca companies.

39

He was also admitted to UCI for the Computer Game Science program, which is what I was really hoping. That is even closer than Fullerton or Long Beach. But I did like the kids in the program at Fullerton. They were very nice! But if he doesn’t get the scholarship, it will probably not work out. I don’t know finances for CSULB yet. UCSD is affordable if he lives on campus. I confess I like that. UC Irvine will likely be marginally affordable based on what I’ve seen of UCSD.

Yes, my son would like not to have a foreign language requirement. I mean, he would muscle through it as he did with Italian in the fall, but he wouldn’t like it.

I guess the three things we like about Northeastern are the program he’s in, the co-op, and the fact that he would be 15 minutes away from his brother at MIT.

I am making a folder with the schools that are affordable, and we will dip deeper into each one. I will also be talking to a good friend who works in financial aid, and she will (for free) go over all the packages and our particular financial situation to help me understand it all.

And, we will definitely be talking with the professionals and doctors here to come up with a plan for success should my son really feel that he can succeed away from home. His brother is rooting for him, but I don’t want him to pressure this son should we all feel it’s best for him to stay close to home. He continues to make progress in many areas. He keeps saying, “I could never have done this two years ago”. It’s true.

40

UCSD foreign language graduation requirements depend on which residential college and major:
http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/counselors/graduation-requirements/language/san-diego/

UCI has a foreign language graduation requirement for all students:
http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/counselors/graduation-requirements/language/irvine/index.html