BA in Chemistry

College Majors Science Majors
1

<p>I was contemplating majoring in chemistry when I go back to university. I don't want to do this physics (not that i don't like physics nor is it that i can't - just not interested in taking the classes).</p>

<p>Thus, I would do a Bachelors of Arts instead of science to avoid the physics. I was thinking pharmacy school after this, or stopping with Bachelors.</p>

<p>How does the difficulty change as one progresses through the major?</p>

<p>General Chemistry (not a big fan; made good grade without studying much; easy at cc) Organic Chemistry (took, dropped; loved it)
Physical Chemistry (not taken)
Biochemistry (not taken)
Analytical Chemistry (not taken)
Other Upper Levels.</p>

<p>How does the difficulty change from each? Is physical more like general than organic?</p>

2

<p>If chemistry major is anything like organic chemistry, then chemistry is definitely for me.</p>

3

<p>If gen chem was easy then it was very watered down at CC as I often saw when students transfered over to the university I taught at. It is a lot of difficult and new concepts in a short amount of time and a struggle at most four year colleges. </p>

<p>Pchem is notoriously difficult. It is a lot of high level math combined with physics applied to chemistry. Biochem and organic are more memorization. Analytical is more learning good lab technique and use of instruments and calculations associated with chemical testing. Analytical, gen chem, and organic are probably the most relevant to jobs. And believe me it is important. I just fixed a broken method that gave my company over a decade of wrong results because the chemist who threw it together doesn’t understand dilution calculations.</p>

<p>Stopping with just a BS/BA in chemistry is a huge mistake considering the poor pay and awful career prospects available to chemistry majors. If you are not using it as a stepping stone for professional school (not science grad school btw) then you are best advised to swich to nursing, engineering, computers, business or some other major that translates into a decent job. Otherwise you could literally be setting yourself up for a lifetime of high unemployment and poverty skipping from low paying temp lab job to temp low paying lab job averaging $15-20 an hour with no raises and no benefits.</p>

4

<p>A physical chemistry course will likely list physics (as well as chemistry) courses as prerequisites. So you may not be able to avoid the physics as needed for physical chemistry (not to mention the physics in that course itself).</p>

5

<p>@sschoe2: I thought chemistry was one of the better degrees versus liberal arts or psychology. I was thinking pharmacy school, but not sure if that is realistic.</p>

<p>Would math be a better option for me?</p>

6

<p>I would look into the prerequisites that pharmacy schools require for admissions. I would be surprised if they majority didn’t require physics.</p>

<p>In general, the higher you go in coursework, the more difficult the courses are supposed to be. How difficult they are for you will depend on how well prepared you are for the subject and how much you enjoy it.</p>

<p>I would recommend that you try to do some lab work to see if you like it. A major in chemistry often requires a lot of lab classes, and if you do find that you enjoy it, you could consider getting some research experience and pursuing a higher degree. You often can’t advance very far in chemistry with only a bachelor’s, but if you’re interested in being a pharmacist, I know many chemistry majors who pursued pharmacy school after their bachelor’s.</p>

<p>Math would only be a better option if you enjoy and can be successful in upper division math courses. Keep in mind that higher coursework in math is often much different than lower division calculus.</p>

<p>I’m curious, however, why you dropped organic chemistry if you loved it?</p>

7

<p>A Chemistry major is fine if you plan to further your education.</p>

8

<p>Applied math with some computer science would be best. Financial/risk modeling, actuary, business analysis are all good career fields. Chemistry is not. High unemployment, low career half life and terrible permatemp jobs at $15-20 an hour even with a grad degree.</p>

9

<p>

By that we mean go to a healthcare professional school. PhD in science and you will be a serf for 5-7 years only to end up unemployed or get a $35k Post-Doc which in most cases nowadays is a dead end career trajectory.</p>

10

<p>I disagree sschoe2, unless you care to clarify your statement. Academia provides excessive freedom for Ph.D majors in science related fields that many people enjoy. If we are talking strictly about pay, then that is quite superficial as the pay for a boring, lifeless position surely does not compensate for the extreme mechanical nature of the position, boredom, or lack of social life. However, some people are fine being physicians (yet my stance on the pre-professional field is one of dismay as most researchers and scientists actually have a quite interesting position where they are doing more than a routine mechanical surgery or diagnosis of the same symptoms with the same treatment prescribed over and over). I have many professors who have had the chance to go to medical school (A biology professor, Paul Davis, from the University of Nebraska at Omaha gained acceptance into George Washington School of Medicine, but turned it down because he thought it was boring). I will give one slight point of evidence that would discredit your statement, that being the outlook of biochemists and biophysicist from 2010-2020 ([Biochemists</a> and Biophysicists : Occupational Outlook Handbook : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics](<a href=“http://www.bls.gov/ooh/life-physical-and-social-science/biochemists-and-biophysicists.htm#tab-1]Biochemists”>http://www.bls.gov/ooh/life-physical-and-social-science/biochemists-and-biophysicists.htm#tab-1)). Secondly, we can also look at Medicinal Chemists, with a job outlook of 36%. ([Medical</a> Scientists : Occupational Outlook Handbook : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics](<a href=“http://www.bls.gov/ooh/life-physical-and-social-science/medical-scientists.htm]Medical”>http://www.bls.gov/ooh/life-physical-and-social-science/medical-scientists.htm)). Thirdly, we can look at the American Association of Pharmaceutical Scientists website: <a href=“https://www.aaps.org/salary/[/url]”>https://www.aaps.org/salary/&lt;/a&gt; . This provides a good indication of the growing field of medicinal chemists. A lot of science majors are not intended to stop at just a BA, especially since BA’s and BS’s are very common and there is less technicality in technology required, mostly which can be done by people without an undergraduate degree. I would state that science degrees offer more freedom in the academic setting (literally can research whatever you want), or work in industry which is also rewarding. I included this picture from the AAPS website that shows a little salary calculation. </p>

<p>

<a href=“http://i.imgur.com/C7JdCuV.png[/IMG]”>http://i.imgur.com/C7JdCuV.png

</a></p>

11

<p>I would also consult this reading: [Center</a> on Education and the Workforce -](<a href=“http://cew.georgetown.edu/whatsitworth/]Center”>What’s It Worth?: The Economic Value of College Majors - CEW Georgetown)
Download the pdf for health and biology and life sciences. It might provide some good information.</p>

12

<p>There are very poor career prospects for Ph D scientists in the majority of fields in the USA. That is why we have so many languishing in post-docs some for almost a decade. </p>

<p>When I was going for my MS I was strongly encouraged to go for my PhD. However, I took a good look at what was happening to the students in the group who got their PhD and decided heck no. They took as long as 7 years, did not get jobs when they graduated, ended up in post-doc limbo which nowadays has become a science career death spiral, and the final nail was when a few of the close to graduating PhD’s were discussing hiding the PhD off their resume to get a job. Why should anyone work for 7 years at near minimum wage level stipends to get a degree that offers worse pay and job prospects. It made no sense to me. Even if you love science with every fiber of your being it won’t take to many years of poverty and unemployment to change your prospective.</p>

<p>One of the PhD’s floated a half satircal idea of starting a PhD expunging service so jobless PhD’s could cover up their PhD for a job by having a fake job occupying the gap years on their resume in grad school.</p>

<p>I’d suggest visiting Derek Lowe’s Chemjobber blog for more insight on the broken science career crisis in the USA.
<a href=“http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2010/08/11/if_youre_not_a_chemist_what_next.php[/url]”>http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2010/08/11/if_youre_not_a_chemist_what_next.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

13

<p>Most of your reasoning is anecdotal.</p>

14

<p>[Starting</a> Salaries | June 4, 2012 Issue - Vol. 90 Issue 23 | Chemical & Engineering News](<a href=“http://cen.acs.org/articles/90/i23/Starting-Salaries.html]Starting”>http://cen.acs.org/articles/90/i23/Starting-Salaries.html)

<a href=“http://cen.acs.org/content/cen/articles/90/i23/Starting-Salaries/_jcr_content/articlebody/subpar/articlemedia_7.img.jpg/1338427564063.jpg[/img]”>http://cen.acs.org/content/cen/articles/90/i23/Starting-Salaries/_jcr_content/articlebody/subpar/articlemedia_7.img.jpg/1338427564063.jpg

</a></p>

<p>here is some evidence that isn’t anecdotal. From the American Chemical Society.</p>

<p>Chemistry PhD’s
32% have full time jobs
51% are in “further studies” ie post-docs
12% are flat out unemployed (significantly higher than the national average of 7.8%)</p>

<p>Of that whopping 32% that are part of the full time labor force 60% are in academia where unless they are tenured professors which only a very small percent are there is minimal job security and poor pay.</p>

15

<p>I found this quite interesting and provocative: “Ph.D. The median salary of inexperienced Ph.D. graduates was $85,000.” What I find noticeable about this is that most people in Ph.D. programs are there because they enjoy it and find a lot of freedom. I currently live with an Arabic professor from Morocco who is teaching a few classes here at the University and contests that he only works 3-4 hours a day and has the rest of the day free. He also added that his ability to inform and instruct people provides a lot of satisfaction. Most professors did not stumble upon their position by happenstance - most of them know what they are getting into and while many teachers would contest low wages in the educational system, teaching provides a very satisfying job. “The most dramatic rate of growth appears for new Ph.D.s, where those with 12 to 36 months of experience reported median starting salaries of $80,000, up 26% from 2010. Surprisingly, those with less experience pulled in a higher median salary—$85,000, a 13% increase over 2010—and those with more experience saw a drop of 3% in their median starting salaries, reportedly earning $84,000.” Also, I wasn’t able to find the sample size of those who were surveyed, but the sample size would be a huge indication of how valuable the results are - a low sample size would imply a much larger error and standard deviation. As I said before, if you look at just a BA in a chemistry related field, you will see a very low income - this is common for many degrees such as architects.</p>

16

<p>That salary represents 32% of the people in the survey so it is darn near meaningless.</p>

17

<p>32% is 1/3 of the people being surveyed, with that being said, what constitutes a lot to you? Also, how many people were surveyed? There are a lot of factors that can change a survey, and it is very easy to conduct a survey in a way that promotes the statistics you are looking for.</p>

18

<p>I’d like to see the average income of all PhD graduates. That salary figure is like a student who got a 92 average on 3 assignments then ditched class the rest of the semester and got zeros on the other 6. Do we give that person a A and disregard all the assignments he missed or do we take the true average and give him an F.</p>

19

<p>I just want to add this is the same kind of thing that we see in law. Quote a small percent of salaries from the minority with great jobs and cover up the fact that the vast majority graduates and find unemployment or the need to take jobs that don’t make use of the degree they worked so hard for.</p>

20

<p>Exactly, that’s why statistics are deceiving.</p>