<p>Chicago has one of the best Economics department in the world. Definitely they must know something we don't.</p>
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I know that Chicago "meets 100% of need," so I'm scared that my EFC is 37k, and thus I'll have to go to an in-state school.
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<p>Chicago does not meet 100% of need. They just claim to. We're working in an area where definitions are blurry, and 'meeting 100% of need' is undefined. Chicago abuses this lack of a definition.</p>
<p>My EFC is $3k. I pay $20k/year tuition for Chicago.</p>
<p>Your EFC may be $37k, and it may not be. I'd check using some kind of on-line calculator, although these aren't always the most reliable if you don't go to a trustworthy website.</p>
<p>About the initiative</p>
<p>"About $1.25 billion has been earmarked for faculty and research support. About $530 million is for student programs, including financial aid. An additional $250 million was donated as part of annual giving or for unrestricted purposes."</p>
<p>Donation</a> helps U. of C. surpass $2 billion fundraising goal -- chicagotribune.com</p>
<p>Wow, I am absolutley screwed if they expect 37K from a family that makes around 100K. That is flat out rediculous!</p>
<p>The PROFILE methodology looks at current include AND assets of the student and parents in the calculation. I believe that 6 percent of parental assets, and a much larger amount of student's are included in the EFC. If you have significant stocks, home equity, a business in your family, a second home ... your EFC will be higher than mine (which is about 25K) - about 6K of which is due to assets (home equity) and the rest to income. If I had more assets - say more in home equity and a nice savings account and stock portfolio - our EFC would be higher because of the asset component.</p>
<p>"Wow, I am absolutley screwed if they expect 37K from a family that makes around 100K. "</p>
<p>Depends on your assets. Our income is a little over that, and our EFC is about 25k. Use the college board estimator and the institutional methodology to get an estimate - and remember to that you have to add yearly 401k contributions BACK into your folks income.</p>
<p>Well for all of you saying that loans are not financial aid, just realize that this will change next year with the Odyssey Scholarship Program. No more loans as aid! (They will be grants)</p>
<p>I do have to agree that their EFC calculator is a bit off, though in my case it wasn't extraordinarily off (prolly just cause my parents are in such a bad financial situation).</p>
<p>WindSlicer, that is not true. I have been "given" a total of $6,000 in loans for my first year (estimated Early Action package). Of these loans, NONE will be covered by the Odyssey Scholarship because my parents make over $75,000.</p>
<p>Of the $6,000, 3500 is Stafford and 2500 is Perkins.</p>
<p>We also found Chicago financial aid to be quite good. As I've said elsewhere, out of many packages, it was the second best. S would have been able to attend, although ohio_mom sums up our situation quite well. It's a stretch.</p>
<p>S decided to attend Williams instead, but money was not the issue. I don't know if it was fit or distance. FWIW I'm in love with Chicago.</p>
<p>About loans: subsidized loans are a great benefit. Loans are capped, so the majority of aid is grants, with just a portion of aid being given in loans. Loans need not be paid back until student graduates from college, a good deal.</p>
<p>Most schools give some of their aid in loans. Just a handful are loan free. Until recently, it was only Princeton. Now a handful of LAC's (including Williams) are loan free. However, Chicago is among the majority is giving some aid in loans.</p>
<p>Bard gave less aid and more of it was in loans, just as a point of reference.</p>
<p>The COA at Chicago is quite high so self-help portion may be a little higher because of that.</p>
<p>An urban area also has large expenses associated with any off-campus activity. Still, I think Chicago does a good job of subsidizing student education. All middle class folks are a bit squeezed, but the COA was not much greater than our state U. after aid. Can't ask for more.</p>
<p>"WindSlicer, that is not true. I have been "given" a total of $6,000 in loans for my first year (estimated Early Action package). Of these loans, NONE will be covered by the Odyssey Scholarship because my parents make over $75,000.</p>
<p>Of the $6,000, 3500 is Stafford and 2500 is Perkins."</p>
<p>Well that is not what I was told, but it does ring true w/ what the website is saying. Going to the FA office when I get back so we'll see.</p>
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i agree.my basic points are
1)Why not better aid to attract cross admits?
2)Loans are aid?
3)COMEON UCHICAGO!
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490 million for financial aid...i mean comeon, spend 5 million and help out your students for gods sakes
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<p>Look, the people who work for the University are incredibly intelligent and well-informed. I'm sure they also don't get off on ruining people's dreams. I don't see any reason to believe the Chicago financial system could be any better than it is now, administered by experts who know a lot more about accounting, budgeting, and economics than we do. We're all just kids who want money; it will never seem sufficient for us. </p>
<p>Chicago does have a big endowment, but it also has a hospital system, K-12 charter school, dozens of research centers and programs, etc, etc...It's not as if all that money is all discretionary.</p>
<p>Anyway, I'm not</p>
<p>As I've mentioned before, I'm part of the unofficial "I'd need to rob a bank to attend UChicago" club. All I can do here is give you my family's financial situation for reference:</p>
<p>We have a business, a good-sized home equity loan, a large mortgage, and a good-sized investment. The investment essentially cancels out the home equity loan (i.e., if the stocks were sold, the money would just about pay off the loan). Then, we'd still have the mortgage, and my family's AGI is about 0 because of business losses, mortgage payments, and whatnot. We don't have any other money besides my dad's (small) retirement fund from when he worked for a bigger corporation, which he can't use yet anyway. Still, we're somehow expected to fork over $20,000 each year outside of the UChicago aid and federal loans shown in our financial aid letter. Either their aid formula doesn't take into account the fact that * my family absolutely cannot pay anything for my college education, * or their financial aid is just pretty bad. <em>shrug</em></p>
<p>That being said, I'm pretty happy to announce that I just won a $20,000 scholarship!!! That'll cover a full year! :-p</p>
<p>No one should ever say financial aid is either rational or fair. But it is equally unfair to compare UofC practices to those of far more wealthy schools such as Williams, Princeton or Harvard, especially when one looks at endowment per student. </p>
<p>I'd rather see a comparison to financial peers like Northwestern or Brown. </p>
<p>I agree that what parents are expected to pay is staggering, and that small business owners can be particularly mistreated, but that's true everywhere. </p>
<p>It is also true that financial aid formulas do not look at "net". They only look at assets - never mind the debt. Fair? Who knows. But none of this should be a surprise to anyone who has done even a small amount of homework. </p>
<p>Whatever you hope for, please don't hope that UofC will try to compete with Pton or Harvard in terms of cost. It can't and it won't, especially for undergrads. It uses much of its endowment income for grad student support.</p>
<p>Let me finish with an excerpt from a 1999 report from Behnke (head admissions guy) to the university. I don't think much has changed since then, but more importantly it shows how colleges think about these things.
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Turning now to financial aid, many of you are aware that two years ago, Princeton shook up the world of the Ivy League by announcing that they would reduce or eliminate student loan requirements for families from lower- and middle-income groups, replacing the loans with additional grants. They later announced that if a student received an outside scholarship, they would not reduce the amount of grant the student was receiving, but would instead allow the student to use 100 percent of the outside award to reduce loan or work.</p>
<p>Princeton was faced with two interesting problems. The first was that they had not been successful in attracting sufficient numbers of students from low- and middle-income families. In 1997, only 38 percent of Princetons entering students were receiving aid. In that year, 62 percent of our entering students received aid.</p>
<p>The second problem was that Princeton was not spending all of the income from endowment for financial aid. In 1997, only 2.6 percent of Princetons grant aid came from current unrestricted funds. At Chicago, 67.6 percent of our grant aid came from current unrestricted funds.</p>
<p>It is estimated that Princetons change in policy will cost $6 million per year when fully implemented in FY02. After Princetons move, many colleges and universities responded with changes of their own. At Chicago, we decided to let students keep the full value of their outside awards and apply them to their loan or work expectation. We do not see any need to make other changes at this point. Contrary to Princetons experience, we do not have a problem enrolling students with financial need. In 1998, 58 percent of our entering students received aid. Only one COFHE university has a higher percentage on aid. Further, our loan and work expectations have generally been lower than those of competing institutions.</p>
<p>We are more concerned about losing our best applicants with low or no need. As you know, the University has long had a merit scholarship program, the College Honor Scholarships, with awards equal to full tuition. This past year, we instituted, on an experimental basis, a new merit program called the University Scholar Awards. The program is partially underwritten by a generous donation from John J. Huggins, a graduate of the College in 1980. Consideration is given to students who receive top admissions ratings and who apply for but do not receive a College Honor Scholarship. Amounts vary and are substantial but are less than full tuition. The fact that we doubled the normal yield for students of this quality suggests that these awards remove a financial barrier for a significant number of outstanding applicants.
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<p>"It is also true that financial aid formulas do not look at "net". They only look at assets - never mind the debt. Fair? Who knows. But none of this should be a surprise to anyone who has done even a small amount of homework."</p>
<p>Just a note that your home as an asset is computed as fair market value less (mortage + second mortgage + home equity loans). Maybe someone else can tell me if the home asset is capped for Chicago - doesn't effect us, anyway.</p>
<p>Part of the finand formula includes your monthly mortgage payment. This can include P&I of the first and second mortgage, but not any home equity loans/lines. If you are thinking of refinancing, you might want to take a closer look.</p>
<p>ethanrt,</p>
<p>I am sorry to hear about your situation - we'll keep our fingers crossed for one of the Chicago scholarships. The investment (they are expecting that you can liquify some for college) and owner's equity in the business (can be borrowed against) are what's biting you. Have you checked your list college list to verify that you have affordable options?</p>
<p>Chicago also expects that the student will work. Between summer and term time employment, you can probably take a goodly sized bite off of the 20K.</p>
<p>ethanrt (part II)</p>
<p>Let's look at your situation a little more closely, though. Chicago also expects that the student will work. Between summer and term time employment, you can probably take a goodly sized bite off of the 20K. Your parents will also save some money with you out of the house: food, electricity,food, incidentals,food. If they have been paying your car insurance, many insurance companies will reduce that while you are out of town at school. </p>
<p>If you work hard term time and during the summer, let's say you can earn 5,000 a year. Not having you at home might reduce the family budget by 2,000 or more. Now we're down to 13,000 net for your folks. I find that I can economize by about $150 a month for our family if I am frugal and stingy and really careful about (not) buying stuff. This may already be the case, but if not ...</p>
<p>Finally, there's relatives, and graduation coming up. Get it through the family grapevine that you need book money. </p>
<p>Anyway, the above may not work, but its a thought. Have you checked your list college list to verify that you have affordable options?</p>
<p>ethan, im hoping for the best for ya.</p>
<p>You have to consider the institutional priorities of the school. Its graduate programs are top tier and are make or break for its reputation. While the College is by no means an afterthought for UChicago, as it was frequently branded in the 1980s, it is definitely low on the totem pole compared to the schools expensive and high profile doctoral programs (the professional schools mostly self fund). Consequently, when people make a comparison between the financial aid at Chicago versus Rice, Dartmouth, Brown, Northwestern or LACs, they are basically overlooking the fact that these schools have weaker graduate offerings or none at all. And as noted by posters prior, drawing comparisons with HYPSM overlooks huge endowment differences.</p>
<p>However, there is no doubt that the schools aid structure when weaker (varies by applicant) hurts it in its competition with the likes of Cornell, Penn, Columbia, Hopkins and Berkeley for cross admits. I would not personally tell a middle class student to pass on substantial aid to attend Chicago over these schools given their common reputation as research universities.</p>
<p>ohio_mom, you for got to add that you can ditch the Freshman meal plan (~$4,700) and get the minimum plan (~$2,300) for your next three years. I plan on doing this. </p>
<p>Congrats on the scholarship!</p>
<p>you all are so helpful, I'm so glad you post :-)</p>
<p>anyway, two more questions:</p>
<p>1) ohio_mom, you mentioned earlier that "you have to add yearly 401k contributions BACK into your folks income." What exactly does this mean? My mom's 401k is the only biggish asset we have (its only a little bit more than what chicago wants per year) - I have about $10 in my savings account, and my parents don't have a large one - our home is worth a little bit more than their income, but they've owned it for awhile so mortgage payments arent big. Does this mean they're expected to take $ out of the 401k?</p>
<p>2) In the Behnke quote, it said that "At Chicago, we decided to let students keep the full value of their outside awards and apply them to their loan or work expectation." The finaid website now seems to say differently . . . does anyone know if/why they changed this?? (<em>inserts angry face</em>) It would be really nice if it really was this way . . . </p>
<p>ethanrt, congrats on the scholarship!! and good luck!</p>