<p>It seems that Tyler’s decision to commit suicide wasn’t just because he was streamed, but that people made derogatory comments about him on Ravi’s facebook page. Goodness knows how people acted towards him after the twitter thing. And he and Ravi were roommates for 3 or 4 weeks, so Ravi had to know Tyler was a shy quiet guy with few friends. Ravi had to be totally depraved to do something like this. And then he has the lame excuse that he didn’t know it was streaming the first time. Right.</p>
<p>I hope no decent law firm takes this case, and Ravi gets the full 5 years.</p>
<p>bonnie419, unlike you, I don’t presume to be judge and jury, especially when not privy to all the facts. Our legal system works as intended, and works best, when both sides are ably represented. I hope a skilled attorney represents Ravi, and the case is concluded in accordance with our principles of justice. But my strongest hope is that this incident will change the behavior of many young people.</p>
<p>^ Most people don’t change until/unless they experience consequences in their lives, or see consequences in the lives of very familiar others, or are perceptive enough to anticipate bad consequences from some single or continuous action on their part. I do not put Ravi in the latter category, so if he is found to be guilty of one or more serious offenses, I think he should feel the pain in some fashion (even such as being barred from higher education for a minimum of one year); because if he does not, a cynical message (no significant consequence) will be received by “many young people.” (And therefore it will be unlikely to deter their behavior.)</p>
<p>mj, too many lawyers have gotten their clients off scott-free due to some very minor, obscure technicality. Chances are, with excellent representation, that will happen with Ravi. If he has truly done this, it would be a tragedy for him to just move on with no consequences.</p>
<p>It’s funny. Young women are subjected to this kind of humiliation routinely and nobody wants to put their ex-boyfriends in jail. Google “Jesse Logan” for an example. Ex-boyfriends are not considered depraved, just obnoxious jerks. Humiliate a young lady in this country (including some well-known celebrities) and it’s all just fun and games. But someone humiliates a gay teen and we want to lock 'em up and throw away the key.</p>
<p>I doubt Ravi or Wei are depraved bullies. They are very immature teens who had no idea Tyler would committ suicide. They should suffer consequences appropriate to what they did, not what Tyler’s resulting actions were. If the facts are as stated, then I feel they should be expelled from Rutgers (absolutely no possibility of readmission). If they are guilty of breaking a privacy law, they should be fined, sentenced to community service and probation. To put two 18-19 year olds (who, I am assuming, have no prior history of criminal mischief) in jail for 5 years seems ridiculous to me. It is a total waste of our prison resources.</p>
<p>I think Ravi and Wei have their consequences now. A young man is dead because of what they did. They must live with that forever and I do believe they will suffer with that knowledge for a very long time.</p>
<p>Jesse Logan voluntarily gave her boyfriend a nude picture of herself, which her boyfriend circulated to others after they broke up. This is obnoxious, but I’m not sure it is illegal (and if it is illegal, it might be because Jesse was underage).</p>
<p>Tyler Clementi and his date were videotaped without their knowledge or consent, and Ravi distributed the videotape to others. This is clearly illegal, even though Tyler was an adult (and as far as anyone knows, his partner is also an adult).</p>
<p>The situations are very different for reasons that have nothing to do with the fact that Tyler’s partner was of the same sex and Jesse’s was of the opposite sex.</p>
<p>Marian,
We won’t know whether Ravi and Wei are guilty of a crime until the issue comes to trial. And your answer basically confirms my point! Humiliation and degradation of women is acceptable but humiliation of gays is a hate crime. Jesse gave the picture to her boyfriend because she trusted him. Tyler had an expectation of privacy because he trusted his roommate. In both cases, that trust was violated. In both cases, suicide resulted. No difference to me.</p>
<p>For one thing, harassment by high school classmates after the photo was revealed played a role in Jesse’s suicide. There are important lessons to be learned from this situation – but they don’t apply to Tyler, who was not a high school student, and as far as we know, was not subjected to harassment by all around him. (Very few people at Rutgers even seemed to know who he was.)</p>
<p>Also, I think the outrage over Tyler’s death would have been the same if his date had been a woman. The only difference I can see is that it probably would have been more likely that his date would be the one to commit suicide. For whatever reason, heterosexual men seem less prone to being devastated by having their sexual privacy violated than either women or homosexual men.</p>
<p>Another difference: Because Jesse was a high school student, there seems to be more of a perception that she did something wrong by being involved in a relationship intimate enough that sharing a nude picture would even be considered. This is a behavior that many people would consider inappropriate for an underage person. But Tyler was an adult. Some people (those who object to homosexual behavior in all contexts) have criticized his behavior. But for those who don’t object to homosexuality per se, there is little to criticize in Tyler’s behavior on the occasion when he was videotaped. He was an adult. He had a date with another adult. He engaged in some degree of intimate behavior with his date in (supposed) privacy. What’s to criticize?</p>
<p>And I’m not sure that Tyler trusted his roommate. It seems more likely that the possibility that his roommate would remotely access his computer from another room in order to videotape Tyler’s actions never occurred to Tyler. It would never occur to most people, I think. But I think it would occur to many people that if they give nude images of themselves to another person, that person might not keep the images private forever.</p>
<p>Humiliation and degradation are not acceptable, no matter who does it or who the victim is. I’m not saying that Jesse’s humiliation and death are in any way more “acceptable” than Tyler’s – just that they are different.</p>
<p>Yes, I’m sure their lawyers don’t want them talking to the media, so their silence is no surprise. I posted it because of the other details in the story, details I hadn’t heard of before.</p>
<p>"Both suspects come from relatively well-off families in New Jersey suburbs. One of Ravi’s parents is a computer consultant in Plainsboro, and Wei’s father is a chemical engineer in Princeton. Neither family has responded to media phone calls or knocks on their doors.</p>
<p>Steve Greenstein, who lives next door to the Ravi family, described them as “fine people, a nice family.” He told the news website NJ.com that the 18-year-old suspect was “a good, quiet kid” who did long jump for the local high school track team. Other high school classmates said the same. "</p>
<p>"His parents bought a half-page of space in the back of the West Windsor-Plainsboro High School North yearbook, Excalibur. Sandwiched between their son’s graduation photo and three childhood pictures, they wrote:</p>
<pre><code>Dear Dharun,
It has been a pleasure watching you grow into a caring and responsible person. We are very proud of you. You are a wonderful son and brother. You are a great inspiration to Jay. Keep up your good work. Hold on to your dreams and always strive to achieve your goals. We know that you will succeed.
</code></pre>
<p>Almost as an afterthought, they added another sentence:</p>
<pre><code>Dharun,
We will always be there to love and support you every step of the way.
Love, Mom, Dad and Jay
</code></pre>
<p>Neither Dharun Ravi nor his family could possibly have predicted that a few months later he would face what may be the most difficult challenge of his young life — the consequences of a college prank gone horribly wrong."…</p>
<p>Neither teen has spoken publicly. The only words of Wei readily available are those beneath her high school yearbook photo:</p>
<p>“We keep moving forward, opening up new doors, and doing new things. . . Curiosity keeps leading us down new paths.”</p>
<p>what these tapers did was despicable imo, however, to say that “decent kids” never would have done this may be going too far. the tape that was played on the internet was of Tyler kissing another male…there was no tape of the 2nd encounter as tyler already knew about the camera and had turned it off. he had apparently already spoken to the ra, and had maybe posted online at another website about it. the media continues to use the words sexual act and imo continues to make that sound like more than a kiss. i am in NO way condoning what the tapers did…it was wrong!! but look at the facebooks of teenagers today…girls kissing girls as a profile picture, things like girls gone wild, exposing breasts etc… imo all these things are not what a teenager should do, but they do post these things on line, to be seen by their “friends” and usually the comments back are things like “LOL”… I know the difference is that in the above examples, the people doing it are freely posting it themselves and in this case was not known by Tyler </p>
<p>The tapers had absolutely no right to invade anyone’s privacy, and should be held accountable, but maybe some of the lines of morality are being blurred by what seems to be acceptable on social media sites and tv. </p>
<p>again, i am not condoning or being sympathetic to the tapers. This is just too sad for words,</p>
<p>parent56…does it really matter that they may have only kissed and no other sexual acts been taped? When Ravi set up the camera, he didn’t know if it was gonna just be a kiss or a lot more and if it were a lot more, that also would have been streamed live. That was the intent. The intent wasn’t to just tape two boys having a conversation. Also, the second attempt failed because Tyler shut off the camera, but that could have easily been a sexual encounter that was more than a kiss. And frankly, no matter the “level” of the sexual encounter, it was a private intimate moment that reveals someone’s sexuality.</p>
<p>As well, as you point out, putting photos of yourself online of private intimate moments is not the same as someone else doing so and having taken photos or video of you without your knowledge during private situations.</p>
<p>soozievt… no it does not matter at all, what the sexual act was… they had no right, it was wrong!! plain and simple…my point was, i’m not sure sometimes that the average teenager, has a clearly defined compass of right/wrong due to social media and tv acceptance of behaviors that you and i would clearly say was wrong. (I am not blaming the media either) i am saying though that what is shown, broadcast, put on facebook etc seems to possibly make that distinction blurred for some teenagers., I totally agree that Ravi had no right to set up a camera, he had no right to broadcast anything. (i am unclear on the role of the other person.)<br>
and PLEASE dont take this next question as any type of blame but i do wonder why, if Tyler knew about the taping, had informed ra, had posted on a website etc, why did he ask his roomate to again leave the room… yes he had every right to ask, he had every right to meet with anyone he chose, but knowing that it had happened once, would he ask to use the room again? He knew it was going to happen as he had posted he had captured the screen post and turned off the webcamera. ( i almost didnt post this as i am sure it will anger some…please…it is just a question…did someone tell him to do it so as to have evidence that it was happening in order to report it is the only thing i can think of)</p>
<p>“and PLEASE dont take this next question as any type of blame but i do wonder why, if Tyler knew about the taping, had informed ra, had posted on a website etc, why did he ask his roomate to again leave the room… yes he had every right to ask, he had every right to meet with anyone he chose, but knowing that it had happened once, would he ask to use the room again? He”</p>
<p>Where else could he have the opportunity to be in private? He also put a blanket over the roommate’s computer so the roommate couldn’t video him again.</p>
<p>nsm… agree, as i said!!. it was the first taping he didnt know about until after, he was able to thwart the second as he knew about it, but if it was the 1st taping that caused this tragedy, why would he risk it again?? the 2nd didnt happen so it wasnt the cause? it had to be the first taping that upset him so much and justifiably… so i just cant see him asking again within just a few days, unless someone told him he needed evidence??</p>
<p>"so i just cant see him asking again within just a few days, unless someone told him he needed evidence?? "</p>
<p>He knew he could disable the roommate’s computer. For whatever reason – teen hormones, being in love/lust, etc. , he wanted privacy and felt that he would be able to guarantee being private.</p>
<p>He may not have learned that others had seen his first encounter until after the second one. He also may not have learned until then that his roommate was telling so many others about his sexual exploits. In addition, some of those told may have been making mean remarks to him.</p>