Balanced college list? What’s missing?

College Search & Selection
1

I’ve posted on here a couple times in the last year as my kids college list has evolved, and gotten good advice. After a lot of college visits, I think he finally has a college list that he, and we, feel good about.

Class of 2020 Male
DC Metro area/ Northern VA
Highly selective public STEM magnet with a (Required) original science research project next year
Strong extracurriculars, especially in the fine arts, but not a national or international award winner (and his school has those!)
Middle of his class, UW 3.6 — but the school is well know for grade deflation and 100% of the class goes to named colleges, and 50/450 will go Ivy, etc.
1520 SAT Sophomore year (540 V and 580 M). He just reset as a junior and will likely see a small bump (20-30 points) as a junior in verbal. Math is a crap shoot. He only missed 1 last time.
800 SAT Math II. Sitting for physics and literature in June
National Merit selection index 221– this year was 222, so he will probably just miss it.

Wants a small school with small classes. Nerdy vibe. Minimal or no Greek scene. Not a sporty kid. Introverted. Fairly liberal and used to a diverse, multicultural environment.
Wants strong physical sciences and undergrad research, but also some ability to explore areas of the humanities. Does well with cross disciplinary classes.
Right now, considering a PhD in physical sciences.
Strong music community and the ability to be involved in music even if he doesn’t minor is important. Also may be interested in a drama community.

Wants to be no more than a 2-3 hour plane ride away from home.

He (we) can afford $45,000 a year tuition and R & B and feel comfortable. And be able to help with books and misc living expenses. Of course, lower cost is better.
We would not allow undergrad loans, except maybe the approx $5000/ year Stanford to make the perfect school possible. So he needs so merit aid from private LACs. But not full tuition.

We’re donut hole, so need based aid ain’t happening. We didn’t even look at Ivy’s and NESACs.

What we have:

William and Mary— in state, no problem paying and likely a low match or safety with his GPA, plus SATs from his school, as a male applicant
Pitt— safety. Most years 100% of applicants from his school are admitted
Case Western
U Rochester
Kenyon
Oberlin
Wooster— safety
St. Olaf— safety
Macalester
Grinnell
WUSTL and/ or Rice as reaches

The rest seem to be matches, especially if he needs some merit aid.

I would love it if he came out with WM, Pitt, St. Olaf and Wooster as possible, plus another 1-3 or so schools that he gets into with enough merit aid to afford. That is, if he has a real choice.

How realistic is this list? What’s missing?

2

Do you mean 740V and 780M (to add up to 1520)?

They can be safeties only if sufficient merit scholarships to bring the price down to your $45k limit are assured, or if their list prices are below $45k (looks like Pitt barely makes it at out-of-state list price). Competitive merit scholarships should be treated as reaches, even if admission to the school is likely or safety.

If W&M is assured admission, then its $27k in-state price makes it a safety.

3

I like your list a lot. Awesome schools.

I do think going from a 1520 to 1550 is harder than you think. And I wouldn’t be worried about that all. The 1520 is off the charts good.

I would advise he spend more time focusing on the class work and try to nail q1 in the fall. The time spent on test prep is a bit of diminishing returns.

But best of luck. He sounds like a great kid. Enjoy the summer too!

4

My first thoughts were already on your list: Grinnell and St. Olaf. For another safety you might want to look at Denison. Their president is awesome and I keep hearing good things. They just opened a fabulous new performing arts center and seem to be thriving.

5

Thanks @privatebanker . He didn’t prep for the 2nd try at the SATs. I agree. Prep above a 1500 is diminishing returns. He just hadn’t taken the essay (and had only taken the SAT sophomore year) and had a school that recommends the essay make his list. The hope is that the extra year of a very rigorous English class gets the verbal up a bit But if it doesn’t, that’s not a big concern. His SATs are above 75% everywhere he is applying except WISTL/ Rice.

And I agree @ucbalumnus. A safety does no good if you can’t pay for it. Pitt is a definite safety, because we have run the numbers can pay OOS (75% out of a 529, not income) and they literally admitted 108 of the 108 kids who applied from last years class. WM should be a safety for a male in his position, but it’s competitive from No. Virginia, and I can’t make myself think of it as a safety. Even if it says so on paper.

Interestingly, Wooster and St. Olaf both had admissions Reps tell me after he interviewed that he should expect to max out academic merit (which is about 30k), and to apply for fine arts merit as well as an under the table way to boost aid. Nobody is counting chickens before they hatch though.

Reality is Pitt is rolling admission. The plan is for him to apply in early September. If all goes as plan, a safety is locked in. And if something goes wrong, he will add Virginia Tech School of Science and VCU into the we can definitely pay and he can get in mix before regular admission deadlines.

It just wasn’t this complicated or high stakes when I applied to college. Which is why I wanted some outside eyes on this list.

6

Yes, please clarify on the SATs. But will assume 700s instead of 500s for this post. Denison has a fairly significant Greek scene, I think, so that might not suit. Also - Kenyon is a beautiful campus, and one of my kids applied & got in, but I don’t see physical sciences as a great strength. I’d consider subbing Lawrence in Wisconsin in for Kenyon. They punch above their weight in physics and have a strong music community. He’d get good merit there, too. It was my kid’s most affordable LAC choice.

Did you visit Carleton? Kind of assuming you did if he’s seen St. Olaf. A reach with his GPA, but strong in the physical sciences, and they may take his school grading into account. Seems like a better fit from what you describe of him than Rice.

7

@intparent Yes. SATs 740/780. I just can’t add. My kid is the one who is good with numbers.

We did not visit Carleton, because no point. The offer no merit aid beyond a $2500 National merit stipend.

Denison (and Davidson) both got mixed after visiting because of the conservative, Greek, preppy vibe. Ditto Lafayette.

Kenyon is definitely below Oberlin, Mac, Grinnell, St. Olaf and Wooster on his wish list. Partly based on the strength of the science. But Kenyon is also very remote.

I’ll have him take a look at Lawrence. I do wish some of these schools were a little closer together geographically. :slight_smile:

8

You don’t really think he’ll get merit at Rice, though, right? So I’d assume it is off the list as well.

9

@intparent
Merit not a given at Rice, but at least they do make merit awards

10

Rice likes to stay somewhere near a 50-50 balance for in-state and OSS kids so your son has good odds of acceptance. If luck helped he may catch their eye for a merit scholarship too. Rice’s cost is lower than other top 20 schools and Houston has a lower cost of living. It can work for you if all things went in your favor.

11

Some of those schools may be a 3 hour plane ride to Northern Va, but the entire trip is going to be much longer. Lawrence? Appleton to Chicago and then a three hour plane ride. Grinnell? Same thing.

Honestly, I’d rather be traveling from California with a direct flight than puddle jumping through O’Hare.

12

@twoinanddone I agree that in for a penny in for a pound. And really want this kid to look at Claremont McKenna and Pitzer, which has the specific program he wants. But he has taken West Coast off the table, and I am trying to respect his wishes. I think he’s wrong. Still trying to respect his decision. Deep breath. It’s not my college experience.

I agree that flying through Chicago in winter is bad news. But, DCA/ Reagan has at least two non-stop flights to Des Moines every day that clock in at just over 2.5 hours. And Reagan is sooooo much easier to fly out of the Dulles. And Des Moines is less than an hour from Grinnell. I’m assuming we could work out a way for him to take his car, or an airport shuttle, etc, if it came to that.

Lawrence is a new idea. No idea how the commute would play out.

@Riversider. At this point, it really feels like 90% of this process is praying enough things work in output favor. The other 10% is having a solid financial/ admission dpsafety we can all live with. Which is Pitt, and hopefully WM.

13

@intparent No. I don’t really think my kid would get Merit from Rice. In fact, I put his odds of acceptance at under 25%. But it’s possible. And that’s the line we’ve drawn. No schools where merit aid just isn’t given at all.

He definitely knows that if he gets in with no merit aid, he can’t go. It sucks, but we feel lucky to do as much as we can.

14

There might be non-stop flights from Milwaukee to Reagan. Still a lot of shuttling.

A lot of schools will say that of course non-major can get roles in the musicals and plays, but the number who do is pretty small. Might be easier for boys. Music performing groups may be more welcoming.

15

In previous years, Pitt released their app in July. If he has all his test scores (and AP results) by that point, no harm in getting the app started as soon as it’s up.

16

Lawrence and Earlham both came to mind, for different reasons, the first for music, the second for STEM. It’s easy to visit Earlham with the Ohio schools. Overall, your list looks good for your objectives, btw.

17

What’s your EFC?

If it’s in the $60 to $72k range, you should run some NPCs for colleges known for generous need aid. We had EFC of $63k and got need grant from a highly selective LAC putting it (just barely) in zone of what we were comfortable paying (about $50k) and w/ no loans. They were the only college to offer need aid that wasn’t federal loans and work study. Factoring in travel and the lack of loans, that college ended up being only about $6-7k more than two LACs that offered her 1/2 tuition scholarships.

Grinnell came in with very generous merit, fyi. It sounds like great fit for your S.

18

I realize that Lawrence is not yet really on your list but worth a look because of the strong sciences and music.
There are direct flights from Chicago and Detroit to Appleton several times a day. Not that hard to get to and then shuttles from the Appleton airport directly to campus at the start of term. No need to drive from Chicago or Milwaukee.
There is always the possibility of weather disruptions but that is true almost anywhere.

19

@Nova2024 I love Grinnell, my son is graduating next week but you need to know transportation will be an issue. The twice a day direct flights out of Reagan will disappear after the election. We usually fly Southwest out of BWI, not direct but goes through St. Louis instead of Chicago which makes winter flights less likely to be cancelled.

Flights will be cancelled. Travel in the winter will be stressful. Most kids stay over Thanksgiving or go home with friends who live closer. They do come home for a week in October. Winter break is on the longer side.

The campus runs 2/3 shuttles to Des Moines so waiting at the airport is not unusual. They are great at picking kids up if flights are cancelled due to weather. Plan on flying back Saturday not Sunday before break ends. Even with that son hasn’t made it back to campus until Monday Tuesday or Wednesday after break a few times due to blizzards. He was not the only one.

Longest travel time was 23 hours from home in Maryland to dorm room in Iowa the day of the Woman’s March. Let’s just say lots of things went wrong, last time he took a flight out of National

With all of that said, still highly recommend Grinnell but it is easier to get to California or in his case London when he did a semester abroad.

20

Sounds like they are off the list, but it is highly unlikely that a kid would be happy at Claremont McKenna and Pitzer. They are very different.