Bard vs Oberlin

<p>mamenyu–I never once implied any sort of qualitative difference between “teachers who also perform” and “performers who also teach.” There are too many examples of outstanding teachers who are not necessarily renowned performers to name. And there are certainly great performing artists who cannot connect well to students, do not have a coherent pedagogical philosophy, etc. My only point was that it’s apples and oranges to compare a school where the majority of the faculty teach there full-time vs. a place where the faculty are mainly on campus when they are teaching lessons, and that’s it. No student has yet complained to me or anyone else in the administration that their primary applied teacher is MIA, unavailable, and uninterested in their development and growth. As for names that do sit on the door here, many are eminent composers and musicologists (Joan Tower and Christopher Gibbs come immediately to mind). </p>

<p>The other apples and oranges comparison is a school that in 2007 had 50 or so students with a school that has had 600+ students for a very long time. You most likely visited at a bad time–because all of our students are pursuing a double degree, many are in other academic classes in other buildings during the day, and many rehearsals and chamber music coachings take place at night. But I have been to Oberlin and yes the building is hopping–as you would expect with a school containing many more students. </p>

<p>I was also very clear that I did not want to get in to a debate over which school was “better.” (It’s as absurd as the fight between students at Reed, Wesleyan, and Bard over who’s “edgier,” “more activist,” etc.). Jeremy Denk is an Oberlin grad; two colleagues with whom I work very closely, Frank Corliss and Kayo Iwama, are also Obies. We have two Oberlin graduates currently studying here–one in the vocal arts program and the other in the post-graduate collaborative piano fellowship. But in keeping with my original point–that Bard’s program is being viewed by some as up and coming, on the make, etc.–I wanted to stress the fact that when there are people applying to both Bard (Conservatory) and Oberlin (Double Degree), and they are admitted to BOTH, so far, the choice has been in our favor. Since there is not 100% overlap of the two applicant pools, I also made it a point to emphasize that this subset (people who’ve applied to both) was not representative of the Oberlin Conservatory population as a whole. However I do want to get the idea out there that, when it comes to auditions, Bard is not a safety or not as tough as some of the other conservatories out there. </p>

<p>Having earned a double degree myself, my own feeling is that I would have benefited from a learning environment whereby all students were engaged in the same endeavor, instead of being occasionally treated like I was weird or a traitor for not devoting myself 100% to music. Oberlin is certainly the most welcoming environment out there for this kind of approach, and if someone is wanting to dabble in the double degree but wants the option to drop one or other after trying it out, then certainly Oberlin or other programs that allow the flexibility make more sense. I will say, though, that by taking the position that we have, the burden for making the double degree more userfriendly, achievable, workable, etc. has shifted from the individual student to the institution. It’s now our job to ensure our students stay happy, are not overburdened, don’t have mandatory labs clashing with orchestra rehearsals, etc. And the student doesn’t have to get up every day and re-convince him/herself to once again take the plunge in these pursuits. So overall it is a very attractive mental climate–there’s a real sense of esprit de corps among our students–and I can say without hesitation that our students are indeed happy, and sleep well at night.</p>

<p>I’m sorry you had such a strong negative reaction to our campus and program. I’d like to think that if I was on board at the time I could have helped improve your impression of the place. As it was, they had no admissions person from 2005-late 2007! Very uneven and haphazard approach to recruiting students during this time. And so we’re not a Cup-O-Noodles Conservatory–and we appeal to those who want to join a new program and shape its outcome and eventual reputation. Some days I imagine what it was like to work at Stanford or Cornell back in the late 1800s–when they were just getting off the ground but Harvard, Yale, Princeton et all were already 200 years old. (Actually the balance of political and cultural power shifting from the Northeast elsewhere [California, Texas] really interests me). </p>

<p>You have someone at Oberlin, and I work for Bard, so at some point this conversation will just reach a dead end. I mean, the title of this thread is “Bard vs Oberlin” after all :)</p>

<p>Looking at the Bard Con website, I’m impressed with what look like a lot of new programs, and a good admissions blog (is that you, N8Ma?) - but you have to watch out when you venture onto a thread called Bard vs. Oberlin in the Oberlin College forum! (I’d include a smiley face if I were more computer literate…) The poor OP, however, isn’t a prospective double degree or con student, so must have disappeared long ago, along with most others here…this forum is mostly frequented by college students (and parents)…</p>

<p>Yes that’s me writing ye olde blog. And yes this is now mostly a conversation between two people not even trying to decide between the schools! (Though there are always lurkers who like to observe the exchange–just look at the view count to this thread on the right). </p>

<p>Best wishes to you and yours. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! Time to head out of the office…</p>

<p>Two pages of advice and not one single person has urged potential students to look very closely at the financial situation at the two colleges. I cannot emphasize this enough. The financial situation at colleges you are considering is the single most important factor, trumping all other factors right now. Every college in America is cutting millions of dollars from their annual budgets. They are elminating real programs. The ones that are in trouble, and there are brand-name colleges in real financial trouble, are cutting harder, faster, deeper.</p>

<p>That’s all I’m gonna say. For anyone who wants to read between the lines, you might start by looking up Moody’s bond ratings.</p>

<p>People might be interested in looking at: [News:</a> Upgraded in Down Economy - Inside Higher Ed](<a href=“http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2009/12/10/bond]News:”>http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2009/12/10/bond) for a discussion of some changes in bond ratings for colleges.</p>

<p>This might be of interest as well [News:</a> For Leon Botstein, Happy Days Are Here Again - Inside Higher Ed](<a href=“http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/12/10/bard]News:”>http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/12/10/bard).
I have to say that after hearing Botstein talk about this issue, I don’t understand why these colleges with hundreds and hundreds of millions, and some even a billion, are crying poor. I guess I need an economics lesson, but I don’t understand why all these institutions keep such an extraordinary amount of money in the bank. It’s not like they’re a family where they’re saving for retirement! I understand that they need strong financial cushions and reserves for future projects, but still…</p>

<p>Botstein would have more credibility if, just once in thirty years, he had published financial reports for Bard College. Well-run colleges publish audited annual financial reports. They publish financial planning information and budget-cutting strategies, even when the information is painful. IMO, a college, such as Bard, that steadfastly refuses to provide ANY financial information is a huge red flag, particularly when both the President and his CFO have been in place for thirty years. I challenge anyone to find one word about finances on Bard’s website. Ask yourself if that makes you feel comfortable given that Ezra Merkin lost $11 million of Bard’s money investing with Bernie Madoff.</p>

<p>You are right, college endowments are not like family retirement funds. Endowments are not there to provide retirement income for one generation. They are to preserve real buying power in perpetuity, for the daughters of our daughters and their daughters and granddaughters, too. It’s against the law in most states to spend down a endowment.</p>

<p>The endowment provides additional resources. For example, Botstein prides himself on running a college that doesn’t have an endowment. Oberlin, however, spends an additional $14,000 per year per student from endowment returns, money that hires more faculty, maintains facilities, and so forth. Some schools spend as much as $35,000 or more per student per year from the endowment on things that no-endowment schools simply cannot afford… like diversity in admissions, need-blind aid, 100% need met, and so forth.</p>

<p>BTW, Oberlin just refinanced a number of bond issues in the last few months. Both Moody’s and S&P re-affirmed Oberlin’s previous strong AA2 (Moody’s) rating.</p>

<p>Oberlin has been wrestling with high endowment spending for quite a few years and has some serious budget cutting to do to bring spending back in line. But, they’ve always provided comprehensive financial data and straight-forward financial planning information. I would feel good about that if I were writing $50,000 a year tuition checks.</p>