Bard vs. Oberlin? I'd love some opinions!

Colleges and Universities A-Z Oberlin College
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<p>Hey there! I finally got an account because I'm currently facing a HUGE decision here. I've been accepted by both Oberlin College and Bard College, and I'm trying to weigh the benefits of each.</p>

<p>To give a little background, I'm a homeschooled student from California who has been taking community college classes since my sophomore year and is planning to major in biology/ecology/environmental studies, with a possible double major or minor in gender studies or political science. I love music, and it was very important to me that I attend a school that had a strong music program. (I actually applied to both conservatories as a composition major, but didn't get in.) I'm also rather fond of math, and if I attend Oberlin, I'd most likely investigate the individual major option so I can combine math and ecology in some way or another.</p>

<p>I'll start with Oberlin. I've been in love with the school since I first learned about it near the beginning of my junior year, and since then my greatest college-related dream has been to get in. Just a little over a week ago, that dream came true, and I'm incredibly thrilled about the prospect of attending this fall. However, the cost was a bit pricy for my family, as total financial aid came up to be around 35K out of 65K (7K scholarship, 18K grant, the rest in loans and work-study), resulting in a total of 120K over 4 years (or 140K if we don't take out loans). The individual major is definitely a huge plus, as are the ExCos, the cross registration with the conservatory, and the biology program. I'm very impressed by the efforts in sustainability that are going on, and I feel like I'd gain a lot from my time there. The history of activism is a huge plus as well. In addition to all of this, I felt so at home on campus and among the students during my visit that it's difficult for me to imagine attending any other school.</p>

<p>However, I wouldn't be asking this question if I didn't have enough reason to choose Bard over Oberlin. My situation with Bard is a bit unique; though I originally applied as a freshman, Bard decided to admit me as a transfer due to the number of credits I've earned through community college. In addition, I just received my financial aid award from them today, and I've been awarded a 40K scholarship along with about 7K in work-study and loans. Assuming I take 3 years instead of the usual 4, this will amount to about 60K total to finish my undergraduate degree (or around 75K if I don't take out loans). Cost-wise, this is pretty attractive, but I'm also head-over-heels for Oberlin and it's difficult to consider attending another school. In addition, I've heard that Bard tends to be particularly writing-heavy, and I'm not much of a writer, so I'd really like to avoid that if possible. I've also heard that Oberlin's sciences are stronger, though I know Bard is still rather good. I haven't visited the campus so I can't say much regarding atmosphere or students, but I'm hoping to fix that by planning a visit as soon as I can. I know the campus is supposed to be beautiful and that the proximity to NYC is a lot more convenient than Oberlin in relation to Cleveland (and frankly, I'd rather be near NYC). There's also the added bonus of combined bachelors/masters programs at Bard, so I'm definitely keen on that. I still have my heart set on Oberlin, so I'm currently drafting an email to their financial aid to see if I can petition for more, but I'd love to hear what all of you have to say regarding these two schools, particularly when it comes to atmosphere and science programs.</p>

<p>If you've read all of this, thank you SO much! I'd really appreciate your input!</p>

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<p>I can speak to Bard here - which I would choose for you. And the reason is the music composition program in the college - as opposed to the Conservatory. (My son is about the finish his double degree at Bard - as a composer in the conservatory - so I know a lot about the difference between the two programs.) If you decided to have one of your majors be in music, with a composition emphasis, you would get to study with the exact same professors as in the conservatory -you would have the same performance options, and even more of them, perhaps. You’d get to take your theory track in the college which offers phenomenal teachers in theory. The music department in the college is fantastic. There are almost no disadvantages to being a composer in the college as opposed to the conservatory, except that you’re not promised/required to have an individual class with a composition professor every semester for five years. Many of the composers in the college have won prestigious national awards (like ASCAP), been invited to summer festivals, and gone on to good grad schools or professional careers.</p>

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<p>When I read your post, it felt like your interest in Bard was driven by:</p>

<p>1: finances, and
2: being able to graduate early.</p>

<p>Since Oberlin has always been your first choice, and has always been in Ohio, these other Bard advantages, like being near New York, seem as if they might be less important to you. Also, even in your “Bard advantages” paragraph you list some important reasons why Oberlin is likely to be a better academic fit for you.</p>

<p>So think about finances first. You need to speak with your parents, since they will be paying the bills. What do they think? If they say “Go to Bard because we can’t afford Oberlin,” there you go. But if they say it’s your choice, and they will support you both emotionally and financially for whatever you choose, then I’d believe them. It’s so great that you are aware of how huge a sacrifice your parents will be making, at either college. You can make it up to them however you can with jobs on campus or during the summer.</p>

<p>For #2, being able to graduate early: Do you want to graduate early? Maybe you have a reason other than finances. But possibly you would be cheating yourself out of the experience of being at a top liberal arts college for four years, and all that will bring to you. You would have to re-frame the community college courses you took in high school as part of your college experience, and I’d bet those courses didn’t feel like college to you–you did them for your high school record, while homeschooling.</p>

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<p>My D1 could have graduated early, she wound up not wanting to do that, and didn’t. YMMV,
IIRC Oberlin is a lot bigger than Bard. I view that as an advantage.
They are both pretty isolated IMO. Bard is pretty far from NYC actually. But likely you’d get there.
I’d pick Oberlin if i decided I could swing it financially. But reasonable people may differ.</p>

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<p>I agree with monydad and pwigwig, you probably won’t want to graduate early. I went to a program in hs where everyone graduated with ~70 college credits, but the average time in college after that was 3.5 years. Graduating early is sometimes a great option, but I wouldn’t consider it on any side of a pro/con list. However, Oberlin will take 5 of your college courses, so you could graduate a semester early, or maybe a whole year early if you tried hard enough/wanted to. </p>

<p>Location wise, Bard is about 2 hours away from NYC, and Oberlin is about 30 minutes from Cleveland, so that’s a pretty big difference. There are also regular shuttles to the Cleveland airport that only cost $10 so that would be really nice for flights back to California. I’m not sure about Bard’s transportation to/from the city, so you might want to check that out before assuming you’ll be able to get there easily. </p>

<p>I would wait until you have visited Bard, maybe stop back in Oberlin if you have the money/time, and if you can afford it, go with whichever feels right! Good luck deciding! </p>

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<p>Oh wow, thank you all so much! The graduating early thing is more to do with finances than anything else, to be honest; I’d love to have the opportunity to spend four years at a school as good as these. Bard in particular seems to have a number of amazing programs for first year students, and it would be a shame to miss out on those.</p>

<p>SpiritManager: Everything you’ve said about the music program at Bard College sounds incredible! If I pursue music, I’d probably attempt to go after a masters in conducting. I know that’s supposed to be more than possible with Oberlin College’s musical studies major as well, but yeah, I’m liking what I’ve heard of Bard’s composition a lot more. Do you know anything about how integrated the college and the conservatory are? Can non-music majors easily take lots of conservatory classes purely because they want to?</p>

<p>I think what I really need to do at this point is visit both and judge for myself the fit of the science program and the general atmosphere to see which would be the best match for me. Planning a visit next week, and I’ll be back with an update on that as well as my financial situation once I hear back from Oberlin regarding more aid. Once again, thank you all, and I’m sure I’ll be fairly happy at either!</p>

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<p>The courses at Bard Conservatory are exclusively for the conservatory students - but there aren’t really very many of them apart from the studio classes. There would be no need to take classes in the conservatory - everything you would need, and probably want, would be offered in the college. Bard does have a graduate program in conducting - that might be one way to stretch your time to four years!</p>

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<p>One more thing about the integration of the conservatory and the college - the conservatory students take lots of courses in the college’s music department.</p>

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<p>My son is a composition major, TIMARA minor in the Conservatory at Oberlin. As a student in the college you can obtain a BA in music with an emphasis on composition. Students in the college can also take courses in the Conservatory assuming they qualify and there is space. While the Conservatory does offer a Masters in conducting, it is offered only to Conservatory students. Thus, such a masters would have to be obtained elsewhere.</p>

<p>My son absolutely loves Oberlin. It became his first choice when he attended Oberlin’s summer composition workshop. But if he had not been accepted early review at Oberlin, he had an application to Bard ready to go into the mail. Oberlin was very good to my son in terms of merit awards and grants. Because of this, he is there debt free. See if you can visit Bard before making a decision. The campus and location are indeed beautiful. To me, it just seems that Bard will work out better for you in the long run. Because of the debt difference, you may have more flexibility when making graduate school choices by going to Bard. </p>

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<p>@Compdad - I didn’t know you could have a composition emphasis for the BA in Music in the college at Oberlin. Does a student study with the composition professors in the conservatory, or with professors in the college? What is the composition program like for students in the college, as opposed to the conservatory?</p>

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<p>The sciences at Oberlin are definitely strong. it may be difficult for a smaller school such as Bard to maintain programs that are as strong. A visit would help clarify this. Money is definitely an important issue, but only you and your family can evaluate this. Again, visits would help you figure this out. Last, many student who could graduate early do not feel that they are ready. </p>

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<p>SpiritManager - Oberlin allows Musical Studies majors in the College to have an emphasis in composition. They can take the first two comp courses and possibly orchestration that are taught by the Conservatory composition faculty. A composition emphasis does not provide for private study nor does it allow entrance into the more advanced composition classes. Musical Studies majors do not take nearly as many music classes as Conservatory students. It is a much more general non-professional study of music.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the explanation @Compdad!</p>