You are confued again. ‘Curatores Universitatis Columbiae’ = ‘Trustees of Columbia University’, which is not the same as Columbia University. Trustees can grant degrees to both Columbia students and non-Columbia students. </p>
<p>Here is how Barnard is viewed by Columbia Univeristy at the commencement.
[Commencement</a> 2010: Undergraduate Programs](<a href=“Columbia University Commencement”>Columbia University Commencement)
Barnard is not listed as Columbia’s undergraduate commencement program.</p>
Note that Barnard is not one of three undergraduate colleges of Columbia. It is an independent affilate, which is legally separate from Columbia.
Everyone knows what Barnard is. Get over it.</p>
<p>Collegeboy49 – please get a life. I think you are over obsessed here… and just trying to create trouble when there is none. We call your bluff. Move on to another board where they may not be onto you yet.</p>
<p>Collegeboy… what do you think the degree of the graduates of Columbia [url=<a href=“HugeDomains.com”>http://gslounge.com/files/u185/716px-Ccdiploma.jpg]College[/url</a>] looks like? There is only ONE degree-conferring ceremony at Columbia U., and no one officially graduates before that time. On the other hand, it is impossible for anyone to receive a diploma from Columbia University without having been enrolled in and completing degree requirements from one of its subsidiary or affiliated colleges or schools, of which there are currently 18. There are no diplomas other than those issued by Columbia U. </p>
<p>It’s a huge ceremony with a lot of regalia and they make a very big deal out of the whole process. </p>
<p>According to the program brochure distributed at the Columbia ceremony, Barnard has been included within the Columbia University system since 1900. In this way, Barnard is similar to the Teachers College, which became part of the Columbia University system in 1898; like Barnard retains a “President” at its helm; and, like Barnard, was previously established as a separate and independent entity in 1889.</p>
<p>There are actually five schools under the Columbia umbrella that can award undergraduate (bachelor’s) degrees – the 5th is the School of Nursing, where some students earn their Bachelor of Science degrees. </p>
<p>Of the 18 colleges and schools that currently comprise the University, Columbia College, Barnard, and the School of General Studies are the ONLY three that are exclusively devoted to undergraduate studies, however. (Both the School of Engineering and School of Nursing award Masters and Doctoral degrees as well as Bachelor of Science degrees).</p>
<p>Does anyone remember the site for the Spectator article on the different Latin on the diplomas? The Barnard diploma translated literally as “…situated in the city of New York…” while the CC diploma translated as “…the New York-y college…” That was a fun article.</p>
<p>good grief people. Barnard girls graduate from Barnard and really, I don’t understand why some parents are so concerned about the Columbia name being on the diploma. It doesn’t make sense for “proud Barnard women” to attend “Barnard” for four years and then graduate from “Columbia”.</p>
<p>Yes it does make sense. Not only does it make sense – it is patently obvious and inherent in the notion of a “University”. </p>
<p>Columbia is a big UNIVERSITY which issues both graduate and undergraduate degrees to students who have completed courses of study under one of its subsidiary and affiliated schools and affiliates. They have this big elaborate ceremony at the end with thousands of students sitting outside all wearing matching blue caps and gown, presided over by the President of Columbia. Then the head of the faculty for each in turn steps up and makes a short statement to the effect that the students of his or her school or college have completed all requirements for the degree – and then asks the Pres. to issue the degree.</p>
<p>Barnard women attend Barnard college, which is an affiliate OF Columbia University. Barnard does not issue its own degree. Barnard women do not graduate until after the commencement ceremony at Columbia, and they do not get their diploma until the time that ceremony is concluded. They do have their own separate commencement ceremony the previous day – but every other college and school at Columbia follows the same practice. </p>
<p>Why is it difficult for anyone to understand this? Students at Tisch or Stern graduate from NYU, and nobody seems to have any difficulty with that concept. There are more than 30 separate colleges comprising Oxford University, and yet no one has a problem reconciling the idea that students at Somerville College get degrees from Oxford U. It is inherent in the very notion of a “university”. I attended a public University with at least three separate undergraduate colleges – most of the other universities my kids applied to required them to specify one of multiple colleges on their application forms. My father is a graduate of a land grant college at Cornell – Cornell U. has the added complication of being an amalgam of public and private schools.</p>
<p>The “middle states commission on higher education” has nothing to do with the degree-granting authority of the various colleges and universities it accredits. Columbia University operates under a charter that specifies it is governed by a board of trustees. They could issue degrees whether or not they had outside accreditation – and their subsidiary and affiliated colleges could seek accreditation from multiple and differing bodies – none of which have anything whatsoever to do with the authority of the Columbia Trustees to issue degrees to whomever it chooses to do so.</p>
<p>So the issue of accreditation is simply a red herring – it has nothing whatsoever to do with the mechanism for granting degrees. It would be like looking to see whether a business was registered with the Better Business Bureau – if I wanted to know whether a particular company was affiliated with another, I wouldn’t use BBB records as a source of information, but instead I would start by looking at the articles of incorporation and then I would look at whatever contracts existed between the companies. BBB is a private association and their stamp of approval is considered valuable, but membership in BBB has nothing to do with the legal authority to run a business.</p>
<p>kiwi nights, I think you have it backwards. Parents of Barnard women aren’t nearly as concerned with the Columbia name appearing on their daughters’ diplomas as Columbia kids and parents seem to be. </p>
<p>It isn’t a matter of pride. Women choose Barnard proudly because it is a small liberal arts womens’ school that allows full access and involvement in a major university. Why would we pretend that link doesn’t exist? Without it, it’s unlikely the school would hold the same appeal! In addition, people seem to have some sense that these schools are utterly separate and do not make up the seamless community that exists on both sides of Broadway. It would be pretty odd for a Barnard woman not to take a Columbia class or two over her four years. It would also be pretty odd for a Barnard woman not to engage in Columbia activities over her four years. I am told that the Columbia Spectator has been run by Barnard women. The sports teams are all Barnard-Columbia because Barnard has no athletics of its own. As a practical matter, Barnard women DO attend Columbia University. </p>
<p>I have never once said that my daughter attended Columbia, in fact when one person responded, “oh you mean Columbia”, I overreacted just a bit when I corrected her. On the other hand, once on a school field trip with my younger daughter’s class, we passed the campus and I pointed out that we were passing Columbia, and look, there’s my daughter’s dorm. One teacher immediately responded, doesn’t she go to Barnard? Ha! Her son was at Columbia and so she felt the need to draw a distinction simply because I hadn’t made it crystal clear that I was referring to Barnard, not Columbia. For the most part though, people seem to get it. </p>
<p>To be perfectly honest, my daughter envies two things about Columbia: (1) their dining options (now that Barnard has instituted a mandatory dining plan for upper class students) and (2) their housing which provides varied options and is generally a lot better than what Barnard offers.</p>
<p>This Barnard parent is only on these boards to try and help give accurate info to prospective applicants. There is no reason to be “concerned” about the Columbia University name being on the diploma of a Barnard graduate. It’s there, and there is nothing I can do about that. :)</p>
<p>for any newbies reading this … argument reappears over and over on CC … and from my perspective it is only an argument over symantics … however the relationship is described it is a relationship that is fairly unique and is a postive for BOTH schools; they are both enhanced because of the relationship.</p>
<p>3togo: good point. I would like to add that most Barnard women are intelligent and sophisticated enough not to be swayed by the mindless chatter on by the likes of billkamix. The value of a women’s college cannot be underestimated – the sisters are prestigious in their own right, Barnard just has this unique relationship with Columbia in addition to everything else. It is a symbiotic relationship (not a parasitic one like some would like folks to believe). Barnard educates all university students in architecture, dance for example while engineering is centered at Columbia and so forth. They maximize their resources that way. </p>
<p>As my daughter went through her college search; we visited Wellesley and Barnard --and I was jealous. It is amazing what these schools do for women and frankly, any girl that gets to one of these should feel lucky. I often wished I had that kind of support structure from my co-ed undergrad university. </p>
<p>To billkamix and company: Please let us know when you have had the conversation with Bollinger and gotten an official statement from him on the relationship. Again, since you get no voice in this relationship it seems you feel the need to ■■■■■ here. If you can’t get it sorted out from the Columbia president, I suggest you find another place to go agitate.</p>
<p>Shoshi, my daughter’s boyfriend is a Columbia grad. He was envious of her at graduation time because Barnard provides the cap & gown free to its students, whereas Columbia students have to pay for theirs. (And for anyone who has seen a graduation, the caps and gowns are identical – the only difference from one school to another during the Columbia U. ceremony is that the students equip themselves with various “props”, such as students from SIPA carrying little international flags.)</p>
