<p>Barnard diploma is validated by Barnard President ( who is not Columbia official) and Seal of Barnard ( which is not Columbia Seal). Barnard degree is not a full Columbia degree. </p>
<p>Columbia’s Provost office also does not recognize Barnard degree as full Columbia degree .
Here is the list of Columbia degrees awarded
<a href=“Columbia OPIR”>Columbia OPIR;
Barnard is not there.</p>
<p>billkamix: Have you talked with Bollinger yet? Get that statement first, then let’s have the discussion. Otherwise, stop reposting the same stuff.</p>
<p>i’m attending columbia next year. yes, it is a pet peeve for us columbians to here barnard girls claim to be attending columbia. </p>
<p>Its not because we think barnard is in anyway inferior or that we want to appear elitist. we just dont want people across the street claiming to be apart of something they are not. i dont understand why barnard people would say they attend columbia just out of conveniency… say you go to barnard period. thats very convenient to say…</p>
<p>Kelloggss: The relationship is a unique since they both can cross -register on most classes… and Barnard educates all students in architecture, dance etc. So, are you suggesting that all Columbia architecture students call themselves Barnard students instead? See, it is weird. Is a Columbia college student no longer part of Columbia college if they major in one of the degrees that Barnard educates all students in?</p>
<p>The fact that the degrees are only conferred by Columbia University and the professors are tenured by Columbia, they play varsity sports together, can share the dorms etc only makes it even more convoluted.</p>
<p>I do agree that Barnard women should be proud of their school regardless of the affiliation with Columbia. Barnard’s gates read “Barnard College OF Columbia University”. Go check it out. You’d think the presidents would have that changed if they felt it was completely out of order. </p>
<p>The problem with some of the postings here is that is intended to be condescending to Barnard women. That makes no sense since the arrangement is setup by the University and College (my point to WE don’t get a say or vote). Maybe someday Columbia will succeed in absorbing Barnard completely (like Harvard did with Radcliffe)… but I sincerely hope that does not happen. Mostly because the sister schools who specialize in women’s college education is vastly important for women and they have a higher rate of creating more women leaders. It would be a shame to lose that niche.</p>
<p>Mom1966 really has no idea what she is talking about. </p>
<p>At Harvard-MIT Division of Health Science and Technology program, MIT students take
courses at Harvard Medical School taught by Harvard professor, but the degree is awarded by MIT, because they are admitted to MIT.</p>
<p>Columbia College students take courses at Barnard-Columbia joint Architecture program, but the degee will be awardeg by Columbia, becase they are admitted to Columbia U. </p>
<p>Tufts university’s Law/Dipomacy program students also take courses at Harvard, but their degrees are from Tufts because they are admitted to Tufts.</p>
<p>Please take a look at this list of degrees awarded by Columbia
<a href=“Columbia OPIR”>Columbia OPIR;
Barnard is not listed there.</p>
<p><a href=“Columbia OPIR”>Columbia OPIR;
This list shows that Barnard students are not Columbia students.</p>
<p>Kelloggs… since you are not at Columbia yet… I don’t think that you really understand how current Columbia students feel. When you do get to Columbia, the first thing you are going to discover during O-week is that you will be doing activities with Barnard students. Depending on what classes you take, you may soon also discover that you are in a study group or sharing notes with Barnard students. (My d. took a lot of Columbia classes that had small sections or recitations hence frequent contact with & exchange with Columbia students). Unless you opt out of all organized activities whatsoever at Columbia, you will probably find yourself socializing with and working with Barnard students.</p>
<p>I think by “we Columbians” you actually mean, “newly admitted students who still think its a big deal to get admitted to Columbia”. Once you arrive on campus you are going to discover a very different world. One aspect of that world is the physical layout of campus and placement of the dorms. During your first year, when you are likely to be housed in a dorm like John Jay or Carman — and are on a meal plan, so are taking most of your meals at John Jay --you may be able to isolate yourself somewhat. On the other hand, sooner or later you are going to get really tired of eating at John Jay, and probably decide to give Hewitt a try, if only for some variation. (Posters at [Hewitt</a> Dining Hall - WikiCU, the Columbia University wiki encyclopedia](<a href=“http://www.wikicu.com/Hewitt_Dining_Hall]Hewitt”>Hewitt Dining Hall - WikiCU, the Columbia University wiki encyclopedia) describe Hewitt as having “vastly superior food quality” – since I’ve never eaten at either Hewitt or John Jay, I’ve got no comment).</p>
<p>I any case, by the time you are a sophomore, you are likely to be living farther afield and on your own when it comes to meals. And that’s when you are going to discover that “across the street” is a meaningless distinction. New Yorkers walk, and they don’t think in terms of “streets” to cross, they think in terms of “blocks”. A New Yorker thinks that 10 or 15 blocks is a “short” walk. And the minute you are no longer living on the physical campus, you will be dealing on a daily basis with real people, who have no affiliation whatsoever with Columbia. My daughter even knows many of the homeless people by name – she commented to use about particular individuals who had been there “all 4 years” while she was there. (I responded along the lines that the people she identified had probably been there longer than that! They were there before she arrived and will remain after she is gone.)</p>
<p>I’m pointing this out because your ungrammatical comment about “us columbians” really betrays a naivete, of someone who has not yet arrived. When you do arrive, you are going to confront the reality that you will be an ~18 year old freshman at a university filled with students who are older and wiser… and the dynamics of the status and one-upmanship game are going to change radically.</p>
<p>Billkamix: you are trying too hard. Let it go. Again, whether or not Barnard is part of Columbia AND what the degree says really isn’t under your sphere of influence. Did you get that statement from Bollinger yet? Is he having Barnard’s gates changed soon? I’m sure with a University with so much clout and money, they can surely have the Entry gate to Barnard changed if it was incorrect? Take it you have never been on 116th and Broadway then also? </p>
<p>Most Barnard parents are glad and proud that their daughters are going to Barnard. My guess is that the majority had more than one option for college choice as well. Give it a rest already. </p>
<p>Calmom: Maybe we just stop replying to this nonsense?</p>
<p>Please excuse any grammatical errors. I’m more of a science-oriented person. </p>
<p>I’m a rising Barnard freshman and this whole discussion is ridiculous. I’ve been reading about it on CC for a while and this is the first time I’ve felt the need to comment. In the end, WHO CARES? The words people use to try to describe the relationship don’t matter and don’t change what the relationship happens to be in real life. You can try to argue about what words people can’t use as much as you want…but in the end it doesn’t change the fact that the relationship (and the fact that it is there) is what it is. </p>
<p>kelloggss – you say that you don’t want people across the street claiming they’re a part of something they’re not. That’s an extremely childish point of view. Whether you like it or not, Barnard girls are going to be participating in extracurricular activities with you. They ARE a part of that. Yes, Barnard girls aren’t a part of the Core…but they are part of that community at Columbia. Whether or not you believe they go to the school, they are a part of the community. </p>
<p>Also, please don’t comment on the conveniency of saying Barnard for your college choice. You’ve never been a part of the conversation. I’m not saying that I say Columbia - I say Barnard everytime. But the conversation can they stem off and last 5-7 minutes describing what it is. Which is exciting the first time. Tolerable the third. And excruciating the 20th time when you have somewhere important to be. You also are fairly educated (seeing as you are going to Columbia) so you WOULD know what Barnard is. Alot of people don’t. And sometimes people don’t like spending 5-7 minutes explaining what there college is -espeically when people argue about it’s relationship with Columbia all thet time, making certain things very hard to articulate. </p>
<p>Finally, please don’t say “us Columbians don’t like it when Barnard girls…” You’ve never been on campus for more than a few days. How do you know that Barnard girls do that? Have you ever witnessed it? Excuse me for this if I’m wrong…but you have no right to comment if you’ve never experienced it first hand. Alot of times when reading about Barnard girls who claim they go to Columbia, it seems to be many layed “well this one girl told my friend who told me” evidence. Not firsthand experience. Wait till you get to campus. See if you experience it. And honestly? Don’t waste your time caring if you do. You have better things to do. You’re going to a first-rate university with a wonderful core curriculum. Look forward to that. Worry about doing well on your final. Not on where your future neighbor tells you where she goes to college.</p>
<p>I’ve been lurking and would like to add my thoughts on this.
I believe that the vast majority of women at Barnard would matriculate there even if offered admission to Columbia. The value of the experience in a women’s college setting is what attracted them in the first place.
It is the minority of women who use Barnard as a safety school, or backup for Columbia admission, who are the irritants in this argument. They undermine the validity of the others and fuel the animus of those like billkamix.
Ultimately, everyone has to agree to disagree: there is a case to be made for both sides, and debating whose diploma says what, etc. just gets to be reductive.</p>
<p>I’m pretty sure that “billkamix” is a ■■■■■, not a Columbia student or applicant anyone who has anything to do with Columbia. I can generally spot a ■■■■■ easily by posting history – and billkamix is no exception. The arguments and assertions are too inane and ill-informed to be coming from anyone who has any real experience with the campus or actual knowledge of the relationship. </p>
<p>Barnard women (not “girls”) say that they are attending Columbia for a number of reasons, depending on circumstances. One of the reasons is that they are often involved in Columbia activities or mixed groups with Columbia students. For example, my daughter once traveled to D.C. as part of a student delegation lobbying for student loan reform. In that context it was probably more natural and appropriate to say, “I’m from Columbia”, or “I’m with the Columbia group”. </p>
<p>I can understand how a high school senior who has been accepted to Columbia may feel frustrated when fellow seniors, headed off to Barnard, report to their high school friends that they are going to Columbia. In that case, someone is (or seems to be) stealing their glory. </p>
<p>But college is a lot different than high school. Because Columbia is a major research university, it is not heavily focused on undergraduate education, and many of the students on campus are graduate students from a variety of schools, as well as GS students. So there’s a significant shift from being the high school senior able to boast of Ivy admission to one’s classmates, to being a newbie freshman on a campus surrounded by students who are older and more experienced. So once in college, the focus tends to shift to somewhat different divisions – students tend to befriend others on the same floor of their dorm, for example – or to look for others who share common interests for participation in various activities. There may be rivalries, but they tend to shake out in different ways.</p>
<p>Calmom, more on the real distinctions between Columbia and Barnard: my d’s Columbia friends grumble that as undergrads they are second class citizens and the university doesn’t spend money on them. My d got a better summer grant than most of her Columbia friends. I didn’t know that Columbia students had to pay for their caps and gowns!</p>
<p>My d is really annoyed at the new mandatory meal plan at Barnard though because it cuts into her food budget and says that at least Columbia students can use their meal plan points on nearby eating establishments.</p>
<p>Well, in fairness, the caps & gowns only cost about $30 or so, and Columbia generally gives better financial aid these days – so I wouldn’t lose much sleep fretting over the poor Columbians. Given the logistics involved, it might simply be something that is more cost-effective for Barnard, more of a hassle on the Columbia end.</p>
<p>I do think that Barnard students have a particularly strong and positive relationship with their administration and faculty. The faculty relationship may also give some students something of an edge in getting grants or internships – its nice when you can get a letter of recommendation as a freshman from some prof. who is a department head. </p>
<p>That’s the basic advantage of an LAC vs. research university – and I believe it is one of the main reasons that Barnard resisted merger with Columbia. They had fought to get tenure for profs who were focused on undergrad education – differing from Columbia’s emphasis on research and publishing as an important factor in tenuring – and they were afraid that a merger would cause future barriers to their tenure-track faculty.</p>
<p>I don’t think an analogy to Tisch is apt, since we’ve already established that the Barnard-Columbia relationship is unique and like no other in the world. To be frank, the Barnard parents can be very kind and helpful, but at times I sense an unhealthy preoccupation with “proving” that Barnard is just as good/better than Columbia, and I say, why bother? The only result can be a battle of the egos. Free graduation gowns? Whoo-de-doo. I’m sure Columbia kids are truly jealous of Barnard girls. I say, listing all the reasons as to why Barnard is preferable to Columbia doesn’t accomplish much. We can cite a storm of statistics, but the majority of both Barnard and Columbia students remain unconvinced that Barnard is “part of” Columbia. This is why the term “affiliation” has been constantly emphasized. This insane arguing only further drives in the notion that Barnard girls are insecure about the standing of their school. </p>
<p>As a person said aptly on a blog, “If a barnard girl says that she goes to columbia, she probably sucks. If a barnard girls says that she goes to barnard but throws in columbia, she is probably lame. If a barnard girl says that she goes to barnard, then she is probably cool” - Somewhat brusque, but I can’t help but feel that there is some truth to that crude critique. As a future Barnard woman, I intend to stick fully to my guns and be the third option. if a person is clueless about Barnard, then I’ll say politely “it’s a school in New York affiliated with Columbia” and if they still don’t know, then I can’t help them anymore.</p>
<p>Furthermore, if we want Barnard to be as well-known as the other LACs, then covering it up with murmurs of “Columbia” wouldn’t do it much favors. One of the reasons why Barnard isn’t as known as Wellesley or Vassar is because generations of Barnard women have been saying that they go to Columbia. In that case, who the hell can blame someone for not knowing what Barnard is? (Women who attended pre-merger are excused, obviously) We’ll make a bigger name for ourselves, and for future Barnard women if we put it out there. It’s time that the lone Barnard name is upheld, proudly and prominently.</p>
<p>^Kiwi_Nights understands and appreciates. My only argument is with “if a person is clueless about Barnard, then I’ll say politely ‘it’s a school in New York affiliated with Columbia’.” My older son attends an elite LAC (USNWR top ten) that virtually NOBODY recognizes. He proudly discerns between the knowing and the great unwashed based on whether his counterpart recognizes the name of his college. When the counterpart looks flustered or confused, he just smiles and changes the topic. If the counterpart knows his school, he generally enjoys an intimate conversation with a “fellow traveller.”</p>
<p>My only beef with many posting Barnard parents is that they often fail to mention the most significant fact about Barnard: it’s a tremendous women’s LAC located in NYC, with a fantastic heritage of creating powerful, artistic and talented women. That fact is totally independent and without reliance on the Columbia “affiliation.” The Barnard women, faculty and administration have created the primary environment.</p>
<p>If the Barnard community ignored the Columbia “affiliation,” the non-Barnard Columbia community would not chime in with endless posts about diplomas, course access, and other issues that have nothing to do with the wonderful LAC that is Barnard.</p>
<p>^Kiwi_Nights understands and appreciates. My only argument is with “if a person is clueless about Barnard, then I’ll say politely ‘it’s a school in New York affiliated with Columbia’.” My older son attends an elite LAC (USNWR top ten) that virtually NOBODY recognizes. He proudly discerns between the knowing and the great unwashed based on whether his counterpart recognizes the name of his college. When the counterpart looks flustered or confused, he just smiles and changes the topic. If the counterpart knows his school, he generally enjoys an intimate conversation with a “fellow traveller.”</p>
<p>My only beef with many posting Barnard parents is that they often fail to mention the most significant fact about Barnard: it’s a tremendous women’s LAC located in NYC, with a fantastic heritage of creating powerful, artistic and talented women. That fact is totally independent and without reliance on the Columbia “affiliation.” The Barnard women, faculty and administration have created the primary environment.</p>
<p>If the Barnard community ignored the Columbia “affiliation,” the non-Barnard Columbia community would not chime in with endless posts about diplomas, course access, and other issues that have nothing to do with the wonderful LAC that is Barnard.</p>
<p>My younger son is a rising sophomore at Columbia College, and he has no issue with Barnard. He has many friends there, and seems unaware of the Columbia-Barnard “wars” that often emerge on this forum. I suspect that, in part, his point of view is not influenced by the unproductive Barnard/Columbia discussions on this forum simply because he’s never visited College Confidential (based on the sage advice of his high school college counselor).</p>
<p>The reason the topic comes up is because Columbia students (or wannabes) with low self-esteem post false statements and misrepresentations on this web site about the relationship, and some of us want to make the record clear. To deny, for example, that Barnard students receive a degree from Columbia University at graduation is an outright lie – and yet that is what is repeated over and over again. </p>
<p>It has nothing to do with pride in one’s undergraduate college. The point is that if a person attends a college that is part of a University, then that person generally will feel a connection to both the college and the larger university. I certainly feel that way to the university that housed my law school, even though the law school was very much a separate entity, in a separate building, with far less overlap than my daughter experienced while taking almost half of her classes on the Columbia campus. </p>
<p>I mean, its pretty hard to live by a campus for 4 years, attended classes in its buildings, study in its libraries, socialize with its students, take leadership roles in its organizations, draw a paycheck from one of its academic departments… and then pretend you weren’t there because it hurts the feelings of some malcontents who think that somehow its a great accomplishment to simply occupy space in one of the freshman dorms. </p>
<p>Columbia was very glad to embrace my daughter when she won national recognition for an academic accomplishment – jut as they are happy to embrace the top women athletes from Barnard on their Ivy League teams. </p>
<p>The reason Barnard moms are the ones posting is that our daughters are generally far too busy to be wasting time online. If people didn’t keep posting falsehoods I wouldn’t waste my time refuting them. </p>
<p>I’m not concerned with promoting Columbia – even though I know it is not representative of the attitude of most students, the hostility expressed by the handful of CC posters is enough to make me very glad that my daughter never considered attending Columbia or bothered to apply. </p>
<p>I just want prospective Barnard women to have truthful information and not be deterred by resentful little snits who can’t cope with the fact that their Ivy League school is not the exclusive little club they thought it would be. </p>
<p>And FWIW, my daughter has a bio posted on her employer’s web site, stating that she earned her B.A. from “Barnard College” – with no mention whatsoever of “Columbia University”.</p>
<p>My $0.02:
To answer the OP’s original question, informed by the sometimes testy debate that surrounds this question on CC, it depends on the context. It’s certainly correct to say that you receive a degree from Columbia University and it’s also correct to say that you’re taking classes at Columbia as well (since some of your classes will be at Barnard and some will be at Columbia). If asked where you go to school, though, it’s probably improper to simply say “Columbia” with no mention of Barnard. Though it’s obviously an integral part of the community, Barnard is an independent school in its own right. Despite what Mark Zuckerberg thinks, it has an independent identity and certainly a very unique philosophy and culture. As calmom asserts, prospective applicants deserve the truth. And the truth of the relationship is that Barnard is a very unique school: a small, prestigious, single-sex liberal arts college that exists within the community of a major urban research university. The experiences you will have at Columbia College or SEAS and Barnard are very different; don’t mistake them for one another. But you’ll still take many of the same classes and find yourselves in many of the same extracurricular organizations; it’s ludicrous to paint Barnard as a completely independent school that just happens to be next door to Columbia. Just as Columbia is both simultaneously part of and apart from New York*, so Barnard is simultaneously part of and apart from Columbia.</p>
<p>*To extend the analogy: NYU’s identity is essentially that of New York; they do not try to foster a robust culture separate from that of New York. So it is with Columbia College and Columbia University.</p>
<p>
Kiwi, I do hope I have been helpful to you and others here in the past. I also hope that you will understand that none of us parents have any sort of “unhealthy preoccupation with ‘proving’” anything here. We simply are trying to provide accurate information to prospective students who are interested in attending Barnard. The “why bother” part of your statement can be answered, in part, by saying “because those who are still trying to decide where they want to attend school deserve to know the truth about the Barnard/Columbia University relationship”. Just as you did when you were going through this process.</p>
<p>
This is not true. Because Barnard degree is validated by both Columbia and Barnard, it is not fully columbia degree. </p>
<p>
CC/SEAS are integrated.</p>
<p>Look at Columbia undergraduate student affairs office. [Student</a> Affairs](<a href=“http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/]Student”>http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/)
There are number of social/academic resources availale for only CC/SEAS. Barnard studetns are not allowed. </p>
<p>There are number of courses available only for CC/SEAS students.
[Spring</a> 2010 Humanities C1002 section 001](<a href=“http://www.columbia.edu/cu/bulletin/uwb/subj/HUMA/C1002-20101-001/]Spring”>http://www.columbia.edu/cu/bulletin/uwb/subj/HUMA/C1002-20101-001/)
Barnard students are not allowed. </p>
<p>Barnard is compeletly separate school independent from Columbia. However, Barnard student can participate in limited number of social activities at Columbia and can take
limited number of Columbia courses.</p>