<p>Barnard students get temporary columbia e-mail account, which expires after graduation.
Columbia College/SEAS students get permanent e-mail account, which is active even after graduation, because CC/SEAS graduates get full columbia degree.</p>
<p>Re post #119:
Wellesley does not have an affiliation agreement with MIT and Wellesley students do not get awarded a diploma from MIT, nor attend an MIT graduation ceremony. They have a cross-registration agreement.</p>
<p>I agree with you billkamix, Wellesley and MIT seem to have a very similar relationship/affiliation to that of Barnard and Columbia. But I believe Barnard and Columbia to have a much stronger relationship than the one you are describing. Barnard and Columbia are on practically the same campus, whereas Wellesley and MIT are not. In fact, on Google Maps, Barnard does not even show up on its own, it shows up on a block of tan labeled “Columbia University” (a little confusing when I was trying to figure out how to walk there, I admit.) Wellesley and MIT are 15 miles away from each other. Barnard and Columbia also take advantage of the fact that each has programs the other does not. Columbia students who want degrees in theatre/dance/urban planning etc. will spend a lot of time on Barnard campus, and Barnard girls who want to study computer science (and a few other subjects, I’m blanking at the moment) will have programs based in Columbia departments, although each school has their own requirements. Wellesley and MIT do not seem to have this relationship, and the registration process appears to be a bit more complicated. Students at Wellesley/MIT have to fill out forms and go through a certain process to study at the other college. Columbia and Barnard have the same course listings to pick from.</p>
<p>And what I meant in my last post was that because of those things, I believe the association leans more towards Barnard being “part of” Columbia than my personal perception of “affiliation” (which is “separate but with some contact”). The fact that makes me want to believe Barnard really is “part of” Columbia University is its inclusion in the commencement exercises. </p>
<p>Really wish I could join a Barnard fb network though…</p>
<p>
Lesley University is on Harvard Campus, lesley is not part of Harvard </p>
<p>
Because MIT does not have medical school, MIT’s medical engineering students must take required courses at Harvard to get MIT degree. But no one says MIT is part of Harvard. </p>
<p>
nope. Barnard students can not take Columbia’s core coreses. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>At Harvard-MIT division of Health Sciences and technology, MIT students get degree from MIT, but can participate in Harvard commencement exercises.</p>
<p>SeasonsofLuv – the words “affiliation” and “affiliate” define a legal relationship – your sense of “separate but with some contact” would not accurately describe the relationship, because the affiliation agreement really creates a subordinate relationship, where Columbia U. has administrative power over some aspects of Barnard’s operations - in particular, faculty hiring and tenure. </p>
<p>For example, here’s one definition of [affiliate](<a href=“http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/affiliate.html]affiliate[/url]:”>http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/affiliate.html):</a>
</p>
<p>Wellesley and MIT simply have a cross-registration agreement. Cross-registration agreements are very common, but they are not the same as affiliation. For example, Barnard has a cross-registration agreement with the Manhattan School of Music, and both Barnard and Columbia have cross-registration with Julliard. A simple cross-registration agreement doesn’t give one school power over any aspect of the other – its just an agreement to exchange resources by allowing students at each to enroll in designated courses at the other. </p>
<p>The Barnard web site describes the key characteristics of the affiliation as:
*separate administration, faculties and endowment;
*cross-registration;
*the practice of having students receive the degree of Columbia University;
- Columbia University-level tenure for Barnard faculty
- Barnard faculty involvement in Columbia University’s graduate programs</p>
<p>See: [About</a> Barnard College](<a href=“http://www.barnard.edu/about/columbia.html]About”>http://www.barnard.edu/about/columbia.html)</p>
<p>I’m sorry that uninformed and ignorant posts on CC create the impression that there is any debate over whether Barnard is “part of” Columbia University. Barnard is and always has been part of the Columbia University system; there never has been a time when Barnard students didn’t receive Columbia University degrees-- and in fact the whole reason Barnard was created in the first place was to enable women to receive degrees from Columbia while at the same time Columbia could avoid admitting women or committing to coeducation. </p>
<p>You might be interested in this description of Columbia from [Britannica</a> Concise Encyclopedia](<a href=“http://www.answers.com/topic/columbia-university]Britannica”>Answers about Columbia University):
</p>
<p>The people who get hung up on the words “part of” simply don’t seem to understand the distinction between the concept of a wholly-owned subsidiary and an affiliate.</p>
<p>[Columbia</a> University: About Columbia](<a href=“http://www.columbia.edu/about_columbia/index.html]Columbia”>http://www.columbia.edu/about_columbia/index.html)</p>
<p>Columbia is one of the top academic and research institutions in the world, conducting pathbreaking research in medicine, science, the arts, and the humanities. It includes three undergraduate schools, thirteen graduate and professional schools, and a school of continuing education.</p>
<p>
Your perception is absolutely correct.</p>
<p>[Columbia</a> University: Prospective Students](<a href=“http://www.columbia.edu/prospective_students/index.html]Columbia”>http://www.columbia.edu/prospective_students/index.html)</p>
<p>UNDERGRADUATE SCHOOLS
Columbia College
Engineering and Applied Science
General Studies
· Postbaccalaureate Premedical Program</p>
<p>This is really cool – I found a [Columbia</a> University Catalogue](<a href=“http://books.google.com/books?id=gh8ZAAAAYAAJ]Columbia”>Catalogue - Columbia University - Google Books) from 1897-1898 on line at Google books. There’s a section on Barnard, pp 318-326.</p>
<p>It lists the names of all the students who were then attending Barnard – and graduate students, as apparently students could pursue graduate studies via Barnard as well. The previous degrees earned are listed for all the grad students, and those who earned degrees via Barnard are listed as holding “A.B., Columbia University”. </p>
<p>Page 5 lists fees – in 1897 Columbia had a matriculation fee of $5 and annual tuition of $150.</p>
<p>There’s also a [1920-1921</a> Catalogue](<a href=“http://books.google.com/books?id=jzQZAAAAYAAJ]1920-1921”>Catalogue - Columbia University - Google Books). At page 78, there is a section entitled SCHOOLS AND COLLEGES:
</p>
<p>There is also a separate section for Barnard College at pages 241-243.</p>
<p>I also found similar information in other catalogues, going back to 1913. Unfortunately, due to copyright, the full text of later catalogues is not available on line.</p>
<p>But for history buffs, the discussion of Barnard history in the Barnard section of these catalogues gives a good overview of the pre-1900 vs. post-1900 changes in the relationship of Barnard with Columbia, and the evolution of the affiliation agreement:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I found text as to the original agreement between Barnard and Columbia setting forth the requirements of the degree.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>[Announcement</a> - Google Books<a href=“pp%2015-16,%20at%20p.%2016”>/url</a>
and [url=<a href=“Annual Reports of the President and Treasurer ... with Accompanying Documents - Columbia University - Google Books”>Annual Reports of the President and Treasurer ... with Accompanying Documents - Columbia University - Google Books]Columbia</a> President’s Annual Report, 1900](<a href=“Announcement - Barnard College - Google Books”>Announcement - Barnard College - Google Books)</p>
<p>Again Calmom convenietly missed the **major amendment in 1983 **.</p>
<p>Before 1983, female students accepted to Columbia were automatically placed to Barnard College because Columbia College accepted only male. </p>
<p>After 1983, Barnard became more separated from Columbia.
For example,
Children of Barnard graduates, who got degree before 1983,
still get full legacy status at Columbia. However, children of those, who got degree after 1983, don’t get legacy status at all, because they are not full columbia graduates any more. </p>
<p>Barnard diploma is conferred by Columbia ( it is signed by Columbia President with Columbia Seal), however it is also validated by Barnard President wtih Barnard Seal. That is why it is not full Columbia degree and their chiledren don’t get legacy status at Columbia.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>The equivalency of the two degree depends on how the University Council priscribes.
For example, The University Council priscribes that
- Barnard degree holders can not access Office of Career Servies at Columbia, while o Columbia College degree holders get full support even after graduation.
- Children of Barnard degree holders don’t get legacy status at Columbia any more.
- Barnard Alumnae association is not affiliated with Columbia University alumni association.
- Barnard degrees is not recognized as full Columbia degree any more (according to Provost office) because it must be validated by non-Columbia official with non-Columbia Seal.</p>
<p>…etc.</p>
<p>In fact, Columbia wanted to fully absorb Barnard and Barnard did not want that to happen. So, yes, again NOBODY here has ever tried to say that Barnard is the same as Columbia. Just that there exists an affiliation which allows Barnard to maintain separate admissions processes and a separate endowment while still existing within the Columbia University umbrella. </p>
<p>It is also correct to say that Barnard students do not have “legacy” status for admission to Columbia College if their relative attended Barnard after Columbia College began admitting women and Barnard refused to be absorbed by the University. Again, nobody here has tried to say they do. </p>
<p>The only point that you tried to make that is not true is that the Barnard degree is “not recognized as full Columbia degree”. The seal of Columbia University and the President’s (of Columbia University) signature on the diploma states otherwise. A Barnard undergraduate degree is not THE SAME as one from Columbia College. Nor are degrees from SEAS the same as ones from CC or from Jewish Theological Seminary. People attend those different institutions because they have differing expectations and desires for their undergraduate education.</p>
<p>The existence of this affiliation is a fact, albeit a complex and nuanced one. Sometimes those sorts of things are difficult for some to comprehend, apparently.</p>
<p>Billamix, if you can find me the text of the current agreement with all the amendments it would be much appreciated. But an “amendment” does not change the underlying provision, unless it is explicitly stated. </p>
<p>So as long as the agreement contains these words, then the issue is settled:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>You can go round and round all you want, but the fact remains that there is a written agreement that stipulates that Columbia University will award a BA degree to Barnard College students, and that such degree is “of equal value” with the BA degree conferred upon graduates of Columbia College. </p>
<p>I assume they wrote that because way back in 1900 they could anticipate that there would be idiots who would argue otherwise.</p>
<p>Again – my point is simply to show prospective Barnard students that this particular issue is essentially cast in stone.</p>
<p>I hope we can give this argument/discussion a rest now!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Don’t forget the signature of Barnard President and Barnard Seal. </p>
<p>Barnard diploma states that the degree is validated by Barnard President and Barnard Seal. </p>
<p>Barnard degree is not full Columbia degree because of the Signature of Barnard President and Barnard Seal.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yes. That is why you see the signature of Columbia President and Seal on Barnard diploma even though Barnard is not part of Columbia. </p>
<p>However, Barnard degree requires further validation from Barnard President and Barnard Seal. That is what the Barnard diploma says. </p>
<p>Barnard degree is not valid without the signature of Barnard President and Barnard Seal and that is exactly why Barnard degree is not full Columbia degree. </p>
<p>Office of the Provost, Columbia U Alumni Accociation, Columbia Registrar’s office , Office of Career Services etc. all do not consider Barnard degree as full Columbia degree.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>The equivalency of the two degree depends on how the University Council priscribes.
For example, The University Council priscribes that
- Barnard degree holders can not access Office of Career Servies at Columbia, while o Columbia College degree holders get full support even after graduation.
- Children of Barnard degree holders don’t get legacy status at Columbia any more.
- Barnard Alumnae association is not affiliated with Columbia University alumni association.
- Barnard degrees is not recognized as full Columbia degree any more (according to Provost office) because it must be validated by non-Columbia official with non-Columbia Seal.</p>
<p>…etc.
Barnard degree is simlly not full columbia u degree because it requires validation from Non-Columbia signature and Non-Columbia Seal. I did not make this decision but Columbia Provost, Columbia Alumni Associaiton, Registrar, Career services etc. did.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>From the diploma:
“In more complete testimony whereof we have directed that this diploma be validated by the signatures of the President of the University and the President of Barnard College and also by our common seal.” (OK, I cheated. I copied the English translation)</p>
<p>I’ve attended institutions that had affiliations. I don’t remember our presidents signing any other diplomas and no other presidents signed mine. To return to two of your examples I don’t think that the president of Harvard signs any MIT diplomas or Lesley diplomas for that matter. </p>
<p>If you’re unwilling to consider Barnard part of Columbia University, you’ve got to call it the closest affiliation on the planet. My opinion is that all of the Barnard Alumnae can be claimed by Columbia University and not just the star athletes and Pulitzer Prize winners. But you are entitled to your opinion.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Here is the list of degrees fully awarded by Columbia.
<a href=“http://www.columbia.edu/cu/opir/abstract/degrees%20and%20certificates%20awarded%202008-2009.htm[/url]”>Columbia OPIR;
<p>Barnad degree is not recognized as full columbia degree by Office of the Provost, Columbia University AlumniAssociation, Office of the Registrar, Offcie of Career Services,
because Barnard degree must be validated by Barnard President with Barnard Seal. </p>
<p>CC/SEAS degrees are full Columbia degrees, because they requires signatures of only Columbia officials and ONLY ONE Columbia Seal. and here is the proof.<br>
<a href=“http://www.columbia.edu/cu/opir/abstract/degrees%20and%20certificates%20awarded%202008-2009.htm[/url]”>Columbia OPIR;
<p>And additional proof.
<a href=“Columbia OPIR”>Columbia OPIR;