So then, I guess in your world Bates is the better college.
It’s not a competition. The OP is trying to figure out which school is best for him or her. I may have my favorite, you may have your favorite, but the OP is the one deciding where to spend the next 4 years.
I hope this is helpful. My son graduated from Bates a couple of years ago. In his circle of friends, they are at top
5 law schools, top 10 medical schools and two work for Google. Bates, despite their size has one of the best debate teams in the world. You will get a similar education at Colgate, so if you are a serious student and have a bit of talent, you will not be denied opportunities at this level, whether you go to Bates, Colgate or Harvard- don’t get hung up on rankings- and the towns of course, are different, but really how much will you care once your there?- all the campuses are nice.
I would also like to add that a school’s alum network and career dev. office is only as good as the student wants it to be. One must be proactive in their job search. You cannot sit on your arse and expect to get a job no matter what school you attend - even Harvard. Jobs will not just fall into your lap.
Sue22,
I am curious about your sources of information regarding the assertions you made about financial aid at Bates and Colgate.
I have just looked at Kiplinger’s Best College Values (2014) for an overview of a comparative nature and find Colgate at rank no. 19 and ave debt at grad at $18,719 while Bates is No. 35 and $22,943. Read into thatnwhat you will… I am guessing that Colgate’s advantage lies in its financial strength as represented by its endowment of $858 million vs $250 million.
Anyway, the more I learn about Bates the more I question just how many overlapping applications there are from high school students who have done their due diligence. The schools are very different indeed and might as well appeal to different cohorts.
Good luck with your college applications!
Don’t drop BU if you care. Look at the Liberal Arts College there, they call it CGS (stupid name I wish someone woudl pony up the $$ to give a legit name )and its a small cohort school the students are in small Socratic style classes ( except for major electives,. You move out of the college into another on campus in your third year. My DD is in ti and has enjoyed to immensely,
^ It might have to be do to the fact that Colgate offers athletic scholarships to students since it is a D1 school - thus a % of students at Colgate pay nothing to attend - reducing the average debt per student of graduates. Bates gives no athletic scholarships - all aid given is need based.
But, regardless, the OP obviously has both FA packages (or perhaps he/she is full pay at both) and so cost is not an issue. My son, who was given a huge chunk of aid from Bates is graduating with zero debt and we didn’t have to take on any debt either. And, as I mentioned, his package was worth way more than our EFC suggested (and his sport is club at Bates so he was not even recruited.) That the avg. debt of Colgate’s students is less than Bates is personally meaningless to me and my son as our debt is zero.
I agree regarding the overlapping applications bit. I find a lot of that with the Ivies, too. A lot of kids apply to all of them but they are all quite different from one another. It’s like the particular school doesn’t matter as long as it’s one of them.
My S looked at Colgate and Hamilton and had no desire to apply to either one.
I took the information from each school’s common data set. Institutional support/# students. In other words, the money coming directly from the school that is not in the form of work study. Interesting that Kiplinger’s apparently doesn’t consider athletic scholarships non need based aid.
I agree that average debt upon graduation is a useful metric. That’s why I always counsel students to look closely at their financial aid awards. A FA award heavy on loans is not the same as an award composed primarily of grants. But as I’ve already said, the OP has the award letters in hand so this handwringing over which school is likely to award the most financial aid is all a moot point.
I’ve been to Bates and I think the descriptions of the culture on this thread are pretty accurate. A few points on the thread however need clarification or comment.
In determining whether a school is remote or not, the “fun” level of a nearby city is very relevant. Portland is an extremely fun city with lots to do when college students visit on a weekend. I think its one of the most interesting small cities in the country for food specialty shops, music etc. I would guess its much more interesting than Syracuse (however I’ve never been there). On the other hand, Bates is definitely not 30 minutes from Portland. A fast driver would do well to get there in 45.
In terms of endowment / financial aid, I find it odd that a Colgate proponent is emphasizing the expected debt difference between Colgate and Bates. While $4,224 is certainly a significant chunk of change, in the context of a 4 year education with a list price of about $250,000 - it seems relatively small, not big enough to be a factor in the decision making process.
^I agree with a lot of your points. For me, personally, Lewiston’s proximity is only a very minor selling point. Being 50 minutes from Portland is huge and makes Bates much more interesting than schools that I would really consider remote. It would be a big positive factor in a comparison between Colgate and Bates. OP, if you’ve never been to Portland make sure you go before you make your decision (if you can swing it).
“I would guess its much more interesting than Syracuse (however I’ve never been there). On the other hand, Bates is definitely not 30 minutes from Portland. A fast driver would do well to get there in 45.”
I can get to downtown (old port) Portland from 95 in Auburn in approx 35 minutes. There is never any traffic. I can also get to Freeport in 20 minutes or so going the back way.
I went to high school in a suburb of Syracuse and lived there as an adult (I also did grad work at SU.) It’s night and day different than Portland. The only fun places are right near or on SU campus, otherwise the city is a dud unless you are fond of huge malls. Utica, which is closer to Colgate is even worse. That being said, most kids at both campuses (most college campuses in fact) find their social life and entertainment revolves around campus.
My S and his friends do go to Portland a few times a semester and also the beaches south of Portland during short term. He will drive/pick up friends at the airport and then they go into Portland for dinner, etc.
Collegeparentnew,
I am afraid you are confusing Hamilton College’s Clinton, NY with Colgate’s Hamilton, NY. Apparently you have not visited the 2 schools? They are about 30 minutes apart.
Good luck with uour college searches!
Oh my. I did not know that we were discussing “remote”. I mean, home is where you make it and there are plenty of happy students at Colgate, Hamilton, Syracuse, Cornell, Ithaca, Lemoyne, Cazenovia, Hobart William Smith etc in central NY.
As a former NYer I thought Colgate remote at a drive of 4.5 hours from the Big Apple. Then there is Maine. That’s remote!
Let each applicant decide for him/herself what suits. I am no longer in high school and I suspect neither of us shares all of their priorities and requirements.
Good luck with your college searches!
@emilybee:
“I guess in your world Bates is the better college”
I posted on the specific language and ranking regarding selectivity, and selectivity only, from a national publication. If posters want to use different standards and come to different conclusions, that’s perfectly OK with me. My initial, minor, problem related to the language another poster used: “the schools are in the most selective category” – language that USNWR uses, but Barron’s, for example, does not. Regarding which is the better school, even USNWR doesn’t maintain that higher ranked schools are “better.” So your interpretation in respect to my use of the word “precision” is misguided.
My opinion of the pros for each school, adjust for your own preferences:
Colgate
- One of the most beautiful campuses in the nation, set in a charming town in an authentic countryside location.
- Very strong academics.
- Has varsity hockey. (You never know.)
Bates
- A long history of progressivism.
- Smaller size.
- No fraternities.
- Academics that are comparable to Colgate's.
Good luck!
^ I left off Pitt and BU simply because I know less about them. Although I’ve heard good things about the city of Pittsburgh lately.
“So your interpretation in respect to my use of the word “precision” is misguided.”
Whatever. I think all this parsing is silly. They are both excellent schools and one is not academically superior to the other and both are equally selective. Bates acceptance rate for 2014 was 24.2%. Colgate’s was 26.4%.
“I think all this parsing is silly.”
Precision is silly, but your sarcasm in posts 40 and 42 is not? Personally, I found it rude, actually.
You’re entitled to you opinion as I am to mine.
Lastly, Doc, being from a different part of New York State, you might want to experience what New York City has to offer once in a while. It’s a fantastic city. I’d consider that an additional Colgate pro.
EB, that’s fine and relates generally to a larger concept: the delineation of fact and opinion.
4+ hours to NYC or 5.5 hrs to NYC, not enough of a difference to make that a pro for Colgate, IMHO.