Bates vs. Colby vs Bowdoin

[wisteria100]

@sue22 Are you sure that non score submitters have to submit scores after they enroll? I thought that was only for D1 athletes per NCAA rules.
I would think it would be difficult to get the data from other enrolled students. Would it have to be reported officially via College Board? If self reported at that phase, it could be wildly inaccurate.

[merc81]

An assumption often made on CC is that colleges that superscore for purposes of evaluation also superscore for purposes of reporting (and that schools that do not superscore for purposes of evaluation do not superscore for purposes of reporting). Mathematically, neither of these assumptions need to be the case.

[wisteria100]

^^Was at an info session for a selective LAC recently, and admissions person said ’ we superscore, because when you look better, we look better ’ Then went on to say that they report the highest scores they can via super score. Referenced it, in the name of rankings

[CrewDad]

For statistical use the school asks non submitters for their scores after they’ve been admitted and have committed to the school. Those scores are mixed into the information submitted to the Common Data Set.

That would be the honest thing to do in the spirit of full disclosure. However, no school that I’m familiar with does so.
The CDS only requires schools to include the scores of, degree-seeking, first-time, first-year
students who submitted test scores.

What motivates schools like Bates, Bowdoin, Bryn Mawr, Hamilton and Smith—all SAT optional colleges in the U.S. News liberal arts top 25–to break away from the SAT?
Their spokespersons often cite their desire to reach out to otherwise accomplished students who might be test-phobic, and to emphasize personal qualities that cannot be reduced to a score on a 2400 point scale.

Some critics suggested that schools that made the SAT optional might see that as a way to improve their ranks. Students who decided not to submit their SATs or ACTs would presumably have lower scores. If they weren’t counted, that would raise those colleges’ SAT averages, an important part of the U.S. News ranking formula.

No, no, Epstein was told by experts. He heard second-hand that most of those SAT-optional schools were gathering scores from all students after enrollment, including those who did not submit scores for admission, and giving their full and honest SAT average to U.S. News and other organizations that asked for it. He decided to check this out. He contacted the 32 colleges and the organizations they gave their information to.

The result was stunning. Nearly all of them admitted to submitting inflated averages that did not include scores from students who did not submit them during the admissions process.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/class-struggle/2009/07/what_the_sat-optional_colleges.html

At Smith, the CDS has 59% of the enrolled students submitting SAT scores and 23% the ACT. In other words, only 82% of the enrolled students submitted scores. Smith made no attempt to include the scores of non-submitters.
https://www.smith.edu/sites/default/files/media/Office%20Images/Institutional-Research/SmithCollege_CDS_2014-2015.pdfd

Bates CDS claims 92% of the enrolled students submitted the SAT or ACT. The problem is that ~ 25% of the freshman class are non-submitters." I believe the discrepancy is because some students submitted ACT and SAT scores and then both scores were included in the CDS
Bowdoin reported that 98% of enrolled students submitted test scores. That certainly isn’t correct.

“because standardized test results are used for academic counseling and placement as well as for the College’s ongoing research into the relationship between standardized testing and success at Bowdoin, all entering first-year students must submit scores over the summer prior to matriculating at Bowdoin.”

http://www.bowdoin.edu/admissions/apply/testing.shtml

Hamilton doesn’t report SAT or ACT scores for 19% of the enrolled students.

.

[apple23]

Only 16.8% of enrolled first-years did not submit SAT I or ACT scores at Hamilton:

https://www.hamilton.edu/admission/apply/standardized-testing-distribution-of-scores

All Hamilton applicants must submit some form of standardized testing.

[merc81]

Bates’ CDS claims 92% of the enrolled students submitted the SAT or ACT.

This would be the case only if two overlapping figures (those for the percentages of ACT and SAT submitters) are arbitrarily added together. Otherwise, Bates has made no particular claim, but has left significant information (the total percentage of enrolled standardized test submitters) simply unstated.

[CrewDad]

@aoole23

All Hamilton applicants must submit some form of standardized testing.

Yes, but for some inexplicable reason Hamilton doesn’t publish the scores of~20% of the enrolled students

total percentage of enrolled standardized test submitters) simply unstated.

Although the profile is from 9 years ago, I was informed that the percentage of enrolled students who did not submit scores fluctuates little.

The percentage of students choosing the non-submission option has remained fairly constant over the years, totaling about 28% of all applicants. The non-submitters are admitted at a lower rate than submitters, about 19%, compared to 30-35% for all students, but enroll at a 4-5% higher rate than submitters. So Bates’ freshman class is typically comprised of 25% non-submitters.

https://www.fairtest.org/bates-college-profile-taken-test-scores-do-not-equ

[Sue22]

Bowdoin:

Note: Because standardized test results are used for academic counseling and placement as well as for the College’s ongoing research into the relationship between standardized testing and success at Bowdoin, all entering first-year students must submit scores over the summer prior to matriculating at Bowdoin.

https://www.bowdoin.edu/admissions/apply/testing-policy.shtml

My recollection is that this is the way it works at Bates as well.

When a student applies test-optional to a school the scores are blocked out on the Common App. I imagine it would be possible to unblock them after admission.

I would not expect a score optional school to be able to report all score because there are likely to be kids, like one of mine, who never took the SAT at all.

[Chembiodad]

@apple23, to clarify only 12.5% of Accepted students at Hamilton choose to submit a combination of 3 Test Results which are as follows:

Hamilton’s applicants are best served by being provided with a variety of ways to meet our standardized test requirement. They include:
The SAT (Essay optional for redesigned SAT); OR
The ACT (Writing Section optional); OR
Three individual exams of your choice, selected from SAT sections (including Essay test from redesigned SAT), SAT subject tests, ACT writing, AP scores or IB final exams. One must be a verbal or writing/essay test, one must be a quantitative test, and the third is your choice. The following tests satisfy Hamilton’s quantitative and verbal/writing requirements:
Acceptable Quantitative Tests: SAT Math; SAT Subject Tests in Math, Chemistry, or Physics; AP Computer Science A, Chemistry, Economics, Math, Physics, or Statistics; IB final exam results for Chemistry, Computing Studies, Economics, Math, Physics, or Physical and Chemical Systems
Acceptable Verbal/Writing Tests: Old SAT Critical Reading; Old SAT Writing; SAT Evidence-Based Reading and Writing; ACT Writing; SAT Subject Test in Literature; AP English Language and Composition or English Literature and Composition; official IB final exam results for Language (A1, A2, or B English); TOEFL or IELTS (for International students ONLY).

[Chembiodad]

Not certain why some schools mix and match results when publishing Student Profile vs CDS. It did make it easier for us when evaluating that Hamilton used the same info throughout - Admitted ACT 31-33 (if they had used Accepted ACT it would have been 31-34).

That said this posting never asked for feedback on Hamilton so not certain why it got dragged in…

[CrewDad]

For the class of’ '21, 16.8% of the enrolled students submitted 3 test results, which means that only 83% of the enrolled students had their scores reported to the CDS.
https://www.hamilton.edu/admission/apply/standardized-testing-distribution-of-scores

[Chembiodad]

@crewdad, not certain why you seem to care so much as Hamilton scores are consistently reported, unlike many others, and are consistently higher than all mentioned save Bowdoin. That said, schools are more than their scores and should be selected based on best fit.

@FROMTHESOUTH3, may want to also look at Hamilton as it’s a great LAC college that has a wide geographic distribution with a decent percentage of students from Florida.

[Chembiodad]

@CrewDad, regarding posting #51, the CDS doesn’t distinguish as to whether the % who submitted the ACT and the % that submitted the SAT are to be added together to equal 100% - as @merc81 noted, there could be double counting as evidenced by Colby’s CDS which totals 102%.

[wisteria100]

not certain why you seem to care so much as Hamilton scores are consistently reported, unlike many others, and are consistently higher than all mentioned save Bowdoin

???

Reported mid 50 scores for Hamilton and Colby Class of 2021 are pretty identical
ACT 31-33 for both schools
SAT 1330-1520 for Colby
SAT 1360 -1510 for Hamilton

[CrewDad]

@Chembiodad

there could be double counting

Ya think? I implied exactly that in post #43 regarding Bates, etc.

“I believe the discrepancy is because some students submitted ACT and SAT scores and then both scores were included in the CDS”

[Chembiodad]

@wisteria100, depends on whether you are referring to CDS or school published Student Profile as Colby varies fairly significantly amongst the two measurements - would be great if all were consistent so that applicants and parents of same didn’t have to guess.

Colby Student Profile Class of 2021 (Doesn’t make it clear that mid % are Applicants or Admitted)
Class of 2021*
Number of applicants 11,190
Percent admitted 15.8%
Middle 50-percent Old SAT scores 1350-1520
Middle 50-percent New SAT scores 1330-1510
Middle 50-percent ACT scores 31-33
(*as of August 1, 2017)

Colby 2015-2016 CDS (Yes, one year earlier, but hard to believe it could be that much different than 2016-2017).
SAT - 1270-1460
ACT 29-32

[wisteria100]

^^The 2017-2018 CDS for those 2 schools aren’t out yet, so I was using enrolled Class of 2021 data from the respective school web-sites

[CrewDad]

@Chembiodad

depends on whether you are referring to CDS or school published Student Profile as Colby varies fairly significantly amongst the two measurements -

You’re comparing two different enrolled classes. The CDS is for the class of '20. The student profile on Colby’s website is for the the class of '21, which are the numbers that will be included in the yet to be released 2016/2117 CDS and next years US News ranking.

[Chembiodad]

@CrewDad, yes they haven’t released 2016-2017 yet, but nope don’t think it will foot to released Student Profile - IMHO. Think the game to chase scores has become fast as loose to the detriment of those looking for accurate comparative data - I do like a published score distribution that confirms that no double counting is occurring.

[apple23]

@CrewDad : You posted three different percentages to represent the number of non-submitting enrolled students at Hamilton: 19% (post #43), ~20% (post #46) and 16.8% (post #50).