<p>Can people please comment on what BC would be like, socially and academically for an open minded, intellectually curious, but non-religious student? We visited Georgetown and actually appreciated the intellectual and academic influence of the jesuits, but it is only 50% catholic whereas it seems the population of catholics at BC is higher and I’m wondering about the chances of finding like minded peers and of the invitation for open discussion</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>Search the CC archives for old threads on this subject, which has been brought up many times before. Here are a few of those links:</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/boston-college/827779-jesuit-catholic-tradition.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/boston-college/827779-jesuit-catholic-tradition.html</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/boston-college/864869-how-catholic.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/boston-college/864869-how-catholic.html</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/boston-college/894274-question-about-bcs-religion.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/boston-college/894274-question-about-bcs-religion.html</a></p>
<p>This has been asked, but here’s the short answer:</p>
<p>It won’t be a problem. There are plenty of athiests/non-Catholics who are perfectly happy at BC. Aside from the theology requirement, religion does not interact much with students unless they want it to. There are more kids who go to church at BC than at your average college, but a non-church goer certainly will not feel left out. I’m not a practicing Catholic, but I find the Jesuit parts of BC to be the school’s biggest strength.</p>
<p>Thanks for your answer. That’s what I expected. I actually look forward to taking the theology requirement and some of my best friends are people of deep faith, but they are open to discourse and disagreement with me about it all. Thanks, because otherwise BC seems like a great school.</p>
<p>The simple answer BC is an increasingly secular university with a Catholic past. BC’s #1 goal is to grow and develop its reputation. The market for hyper-religious Catholic students in America is extremely small. There is no growth there. Religious, conservative students usually choose Bible Belt schools like BYU, Bob Jones, or Liberty, not BC. Therefore, BC is catering more to students who have less and less identification with the traditional Catholic ideology. Yes, there are many “Catholic” students here. But, for many of them, their commitment ends (or gets put on a very long hiatus) once their parents drop them off Upper or Newton. Furthermore, the overwhelming majority of the administrators at BC are lay people. They don’t have a theological stone to grind or ideas to indoctrinate. To be frank, there are only four things that might reveal to BC’s Catholic tradition to a complete stranger:</p>
<p>1) Theology cores
2) The occasional appearance of priests or nuns
3) The crucifixes in the classroom (neatly inconspicuous)
4) The masses that you won’t know are happening unless you walk into a building that looks like a church</p>
<p>Reddune–Would your comments be endorsed by the BC administration? Aren’t there any positive ways that BC could embrace its Catholic/Jesuit identity and still “grow and develop its reputation”? Maybe you should look to Georgetown for suggestions…</p>
<p>BC’s secularization began under a Jesuit priest, J. Monan. After Monan became president, he did away with the Jesuit dominated board of directors and brought on lay alumni. Furthermore, the traditional core curriculum was drastically reduced to accommodate the changing time. (Can you believe there were six required classes of philosophy and four years of Latin?). I wouldn’t look to Georgetown as a model to rejuvenate the Catholic faith within the student body. Last time I check, the current President of Georgetown was a lay person, not a priest (BC’s still is a Jesuit). There are only 50+ Jesuits on Georgetown campus, BC has 100+. If you visit the Georgetown’s forum, you get the general idea that the school atmosphere (crucifixions aside) is as secular as BC, if not even more so. So in the end, BC or Georgetown will tend to your spiritual needs (a very broad understanding of spirituality), but don’t expect Catholicism to be shoved down your throat.</p>
<p>Yes, I know Georgetown well…we don’t tend to shove much down anyone’s throat. However, the Jesuit tradition and history of the place is manifest in the educational, cultural, and social experience of our undergraduates, and there is a focus on development of the whole person as well as service to others. These aspects permeate the experience and atmosphere at Georgetown and have far more of an impact than the number of Jesuits on campus or the status of the university president. As a result of its Jesuit tradition, religious/moral/philosophical development is deamed an important mission for Georgetown, and the institution embraces all faiths and perspectives in this development (without “rejuvenating” the Catholic faith or any faith for that matter, and without “shoving” anything down anyone’s throat).</p>
<p>BC has been misguided in many ways and with many decisions as it has tried to break through the prestige barrier it faces. Being Jesuit and Catholic should not be deemed as a disadvantage (what is wrong with being the #2 Jesuit college in the country?); it’s bigger problem is that it is, and will always be, the #4 university in the Boston area (behind Harvard, MIT, and Tufts), and further down the list if you count the liberal arts colleges in the state (with Williams, Amherst, Wellesley, Smith, Mt. Holyoke…). Darting to the ACC was a huge mistake (for both BC and the conference), and other poor decisions have plagued BC in the recent past. BC needs to spend more time reflecting on their identity and less time hiding the crucifixes.</p>
<p>First, I didn’t realize Holy Cross was the #1 Jesuit college in the country, although I beg to differ. Second, why are talking about rankings and where BC relative to other schools? I thought we were discussing BC’s Jesuit/Spiritual identity. It seems a little off topic. If you want to ■■■■■ about rankings, please start some other threads.</p>
<p>The Jesuits’ commitment to educate the whole person is just that, a Jesuit’s commitment. Not a Catholic one. And that ideal of a liberal education is the main selling point of BC’s. BC markets that to death. Students come to BC wanting a well-rounded education and they will certainly get one. If they come to BC wanting spiritual fulfillment, they will certain find it. If they come to BC wanting hardcore adherence to Catholic’s beliefs, fat chance. BC does not stray from the Jesuit identity because the Jesuit identity is compatible with secularization, a very reflective and pedagogical legacy. BC strays from the Catholicism (albeit slowly). Georgetown is similar in this regard, retaining the openness of the Jesuits while refraining from the extremes of Catholicism.</p>
<p>To answer your point about BC being misguided in its strategy, I don’t think so. The evidence is in the pudding: the extraordinary growth in “prestige” (a relative term), enrollment, SAT scores, student quality, and quality of professors. BC wasn’t even the fourth best school in Boston 30 years ago, now it might surpass Tufts (relatively speaking). The need for growth and development is hardly BC’s alone. Georgetown, Nortre Dame, and any number of schools compete fiercely for the prestige pie. The day after U.S. News released its latest rankings, Georgetown sent out mass emails extolling the fact that it had moved up to #21 (as did BC when it moved up to #31). I don’t fault schools for doing this, it’s the nature of the business at this moment. But don’t mistake that because the school advertises itself as reflective and meditative means it doesn’t care about the bottom line of growth.</p>
<p>I didn’t get the mass email…you are simply wrong about Georgetown and Notre Dame (which is not Jesuit). Yes, I forgot about Holy Cross–BC is likely #3 in the Jesuit world of US education, behind Georgetown and Holy Cross.</p>
<p>Please stop ■■■■■■■■. There is nothing in your post relevant to the topic at hand.</p>
<p>Buddy, you’ve been on here for 5+ years–who are you calling a ■■■■■. You are just unable to defend your point of view because it doesn’t match with the facts. Information isn’t irrelevant just because you don’t like it or agree with it (or can’t face it). Sadly, BC’s identity is all about rankings, instead of looking to the core traditions and history of the place–the school’s motivations for downplaying certain aspects of itself and trying to portray itself in a certain light are certainly relevant to this discussion.</p>
<p>To the OP, BC is Catholic University in the Jesuit tradition, providing the opportunity for an excellent education based on research and active discussion of positions and issues. You won’t be ostracized for being a non-believer though you may be challenged to provide a measured and reasoned argument defending your position, not in any effort to convert you but to test the merits and depth of your thought process.</p>
<p>To Reddune, I think you’re being to hard on hoyasax1. You’ve provided a well reasoned discussion of the state of BC as well as the position of other Catholic universities in the US. Conversely, “whatrocks1”, acting as though he is sole arbiter of what qualifies as Catholic & Jesuit in this world, has comes across as a preening, rankings-obsessed pedant, ■■■■■■■■ other college forums and posting answers that have nothing to do with OP questions. Frankly, as an alleged member of the Georgetown community he does more to put BC in a good light every time he posts additional nonsense.</p>
<p>Putting the actual spotlight on BC (not a negative or positive one) is my goal. Also, I am not trying to upset anyone, so my apologies for any hurt feelings.</p>
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<p>And your statement in the second box is a ‘fact’ or ‘opinion’? :rolleyes:</p>
<p>btw: I wouldn’t be too quick to discount those who in fact want their institution to improve in the rankings. all of the facets that comprise the rankings criteria are valuable to students; for example, smaller class sizes and increased spending/student is a good thing, no? </p>
<p>The reason I make that comment is that my Calif state legislature cares not one iota about rankings and is thus dropping spending per UC student, on purpose.</p>
<p>hoyasaxa1,</p>
<p>I think you are right that BC will always be placed behind H and MIT (don’t bet on Tufts) in the local rankings – who wouldn’t be?!</p>
<p>It is also wonderful that G has risen to 21st in the national rankings but please spare us your implicit superiority and condescension towards BC, or must you be reminded that G benefitted to a certain degree by its mere location, where she had to compete with…whom?</p>
<p>I think an appreciation of BC’s current stature is in order here. Imagine an Irish immigrant laden, Jesuit/Catholic institution founded in the very heart of purintanical protestantism – Boston (where Irishmen were barely considered human) and its bastion of all things educational (H) which supported its preposterous premise – that of being home to some sort of superior beings – yankee, protestant, Boston Brahmins – you name it. Then see, how long it takes to emerge from such inauspicious beginnings to be able to hold its own in it long history of hostile surroundings and see where you think it should be placed in the rankings. Do you ever wonder how G would have fared under similar conditions?</p>
<p>As for me, I prefer the perceived solid strength of BC to the light featheriness of G – pretender to the Ivy League. If it had any sense of its true mission the Ivy League is the last place it would look to.</p>
<p>??? You’re joking, right? BC is a second-tier national university and a first tier Catholic and Jesuit university. It is and will always be. Would BC’s reputation be better if it were in a different city–yes. Would it still be a second-tier national university. Yes. Would it still be a first tier Catholic university. Yes. Would it still be behind Georgetown, Notre Dame, and probably Holy Cross in terms of both prestige and quality. Yes.</p>
<p>I assure you I am not joking. </p>
<p>My, my, you are full of such positive OPINIONS…and, by the way, last I heard (if you go by US News’ rankings) the top fifty national umiversities (if not more) comprise the first tier.</p>
<p>I am curious, perhaps you can tell me why it is that G’s endowment is considerably smaller than BC’s when it is “so obviously superior” to it. Hmmm? </p>
<p>I’ll stop here because I fear that I am stooping to your level – that of bashing a perfectly fine university for no apparent reason.</p>
<p>Endowment is Georgetown’s biggest weakness, that is certain. Are you truly interested in why it is insufficient? I am happy to discuss it with you if you are. The fact is, Georgetown RARELY loses students or faculty to BC; ND rarely loses students to BC (not sure about faculty). That is how I’m defining second tier.</p>