BC vs Tufts vs Notre Dame

Hi! I am desperately trying to decide between Boston College, Tufts, and Notre Dame. My primary interest (as of know) is in food sustainability and at Tufts or Notre Dame I would major in environmental engineering. At BC I would do environmental science. I like the idea of being able to try engineering, but honestly have no idea if I will like it. I like the proximity of to Boston that BC and Tufts offer but knowing I want to try engineering eliminates BC. Are the people at Tufts too eccentric? Also, the facilities seem to be in disrepair considering the high tuition and alumni presence seems non existent. Notre Dame would be a whole different experience but a bold move. My one concern is I would be going to dorm parties for four years. Also, I am a vegetarian and don’t want to run out of food options in South Bend. Boston College seems perfect for me except the fact that I will not be able to try engineering. Do you think this is something that is important? Please Help!!!

Tufts will provide a more varied student body then BC or ND. Tufts also has the benefit of an excellent graduate nutrition school which may be helpful for your preferred major.

This is a reunion year for me at Tufts and I can speak to how actively they engage alums.

Good luck with your decision.

Tufts had kind of dropped the ball on alumni engagement until about 10 years ago. There were always people who stayed connected but not because the school was reaching out. They have been making much more of an effort and it’ll help going forward.

With that said, given your interests, I think Tufts would be your best choice. You’ll find your people there – there is truly every type!

BC seems to be your preferred school. Is there a significant cost difference among your 3 options ?

All three are great great schools. Tufts is diverse. So much so I could t get s feel for the culture. Perhaps it was eccentricity. I hadn’t thought of it quite that way.

ND is great. Just ask my brother in law. He reminds me of this on s regular basis. But said it was very quiet. Not tense or anything. Don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings. But it was dull for the most part. But that’s why he loved it and studied his butt off. It. Has paid off too

BC is just the perfect blend of school spirit and social. And I sense it is on an real upturn from great to elite. But no engineering. The new Schiller center will house the brand new school of engineering. But that’s s year s way.

I looked at all of the ES programs. Both ND and BC are “Geology centric”. BC has an earthquake monitoring station which is kind of cool, but not in your stated area of interest. (New England has lots of tiny earthquakes but nothing major). Tufts is located on an old fault line, so they are dependent on BC to get a heads up should something happen :-).

https://www.bc.edu/bc-web/schools/mcas/sites/weston-observatory.html
http://tuftsobserver.org/the-fault-in-our-campus/

You should check for yourself, but I could not find any courses on food sustainability at either BC or Notre Dame. BC does have a cross enrollment program with both Tufts and BU, though.

One of the key subjects in any environmental program is Environmental Economics (because almost any real-world initiative must be cost justified). Although BC is known for a strong economics program (a friend of mine is a prof there, so I had to mention that) it does not do much environment related research. Neither does Notre Dame. Although Tufts does not offer a Phd in Economics, Environmental Economics is a specialty and they are internationally ranked for their research in this area. BU (which does have a Phd program) is also strong in this area.

https://ideas.repec.org/top/top.env.html

Tufts’ ES program is one of the oldest interdisciplinary programs in the country (founded in 1984). It is “Biology centric” and Tufts has one of the top graduate programs in nutrition, so it matches your interests much better. There is a special “track” (i.e. concentration) within ES called Food Systems, Nutrition and the Environment and there is also a minor in Food Systems and Nutrition. Note that the graduate school of nutrition is part of the downtown campus, so if you want to take grad-level courses in food/nutrition you will need to go downtown.

http://as.tufts.edu/environmentalStudies/curriculum/trackCurriculum.htm
http://as.tufts.edu/environmentalStudies/curriculum/

In terms of engineering, Notre Dame’s engineering school is about twice the size of Tufts (but still small by Midwest state school standards). Civil Engineering (Environmental Engineering is a specialty within Civil Engineering) is also a bigger department, but the Environmental Engineering programs at both are small - each graduating under 20 students per year. Tufts’ has one of the older Environmental Engineering programs in the country (it was ABET accredited in 1995) Notre Dame’s program is in the process of seeking ABET accreditation, so I assume it is relatively new.

The Environmental Engineering program at Tufts provides guidelines for organizing elective courses around an area of interest. Six of these clusters have been documented (as suggestions). I went through the general degree requirements and you should be able to build a cluster around the Food Systems and Nutrition Minor, so you can actually create an Environmental Engineering degree with a concentration in your area of interest.

http://engineering.tufts.edu/cee/documents/bseve_electiveclusters.pdf
http://students.tufts.edu/sites/default/files/BSEVE2021-DegreeSheet.pdf

The Computer Science program is bigger at Tufts than Notre Dame and more interdisciplinary. It is strong in Computational Biology and even offers a course in Machine Learning for Ecology and Sustainability. (Machine Learning is one of the hottest fields in CS right now).

https://www.cs.tufts.edu/t/courses/description/fall2017/COMP/150-01

Tufts Engineering is also strong in engineering/technology management and entrepreneurship. They are one of a small number of schools that offer an MEM degree (an engineering alternative to an MBA) for which they won an award from the National Academy of Engineering. At the undergrad level the minor in Entrepreneurial Leadership is one of the most popular minors across both Engineering and Arts and Sciences. Tufts is partner with Greentown Labs the largest Cleantech Incubator in the US and a member of MEMPC. Boston is a top 10 cleantech city and the area around MIT and Tufts is the center for Cleantech.

http://www.mempc.org/
http://now.tufts.edu/news-releases/tufts-university-collaborates-somervilles-greentown-labs-support-inventive-clean
https://www.2degreesnetwork.com/groups/2degrees-community/resources/top-10-cleantech-hubs-us/
https://www.reuters.com/article/idUS317857292020110328

Due to its smaller size, Tufts Engineering tends to focus on interdisciplinary areas in order to achieve critical mass.
Two of the three areas of focus (Human Health and Sustainability) match your field of interest, and the third is relevant.

https://engineering.tufts.edu/about/mission

Tufts is also big in K-16 STEM education research (they created the Lego Mindstorms and have taught pre-K children to program) so the engineering culture is all about attracting new people into the field rather than weeding people out. The net attrition rate at Tufts is a negative number whereas the average attrition rate across all engineering schools is over 50%. Tufts offers a good environment for those who would like to “give engineering a try”.

http://now.tufts.edu/articles/engineering-toyland
file:///C:/Users/Owner/Downloads/section1c.pdf

ND offers a minor in Sustainability. https://science.nd.edu/undergraduate/minors/sustainability/

See also: https://sustainabilitystudies.nd.edu/

@suzy100 - Thanks for the link. But I still can’t find any food related sustainability courses. Sustainability has very broad scope and food related courses are not all that common. They are usually found in Bio, Nutrition or Agriculture departments, typically at large state U’s.

https://sustainabilitystudies.nd.edu/sustainability-minor/courses/

Thoreau’s house/Walden Pond is 25 minutes from Tufts…

Couple of things regarding ND. First, dorm parties are generally attended by freshmen. I don’t think either of my daughters went to one after their novelty wore off during their first year. But quiet? Not in the least. I’ll just say that from what I’ve observed over the past 6 years, ND students tend to really enjoy their college experience. I agree with your comment about Tufts physical plant being in disrepair, although the last time I toured there was six years ago, but I did get that impression. ND, on the other hand, pours tons of money into their facilities, both in terms of new construction and ongoing maintenance. You will probably hear stories of disparities in dorm facilities from one hall to the next, and this is true to an extent, but they are in the middle of a ten year plan to renovate the older dorms, so a lot of that is being addressed. In terms of being vegetarian, no worries there. Between the dining halls and other on-campus options, you should have no problem. In terms of alumni engagement, I would guess that there are very few universities with an alumni network as engaged as ND’s. Also, fwiw, South Bend, while it isn’t Boston, sometimes gets a bad rap. The current mayor is a very young, dynamic guy who really appreciates and fosters the relationship between the city and university. My final thought, and I apologize if this has been somewhat rambling, is that you have to decide what kind of experience you want. Notre Dame is pretty much unlike any other university in terms of it’s mission and what it seeks out in its student body. I went to school in Boston, albeit many years ago, and have a daughter who graduated from and a daughter currently attending ND. There really is no place like it. Good luck with your decision.

With respect to facilities, Tufts just opened (last fall) a new 177,000 square foot Science and Engineering Complex (SEC) complete with an atrium and a cafe. It is interdisciplinary and houses the Biology department (which runs the Environmental Science major) and the Civil and Environmental Engineering department (among others).

https://www.payette.com/project/science-and-engineering-complex/
https://tuftsdaily.com/news/2017/08/29/science-engineering-complex-opens-tufts-community/

Less than two years ago, Tufts opened a new 95,000 sq ft Collaborative Learning and Innovation Complex (CLIC) another interdisciplinary space used by both Engineering and Liberal Arts.
http://ase.tufts.edu/574bostonavenue/about

There is a third new building in the planning stage that will be built around a new on-campus subway station that is being developed as part of the Green Line extension project.

I can’t speak to the env engineering/science programs at the 3 schools, but we did tour all 3 for the 2021 cycle. We were not impressed with the physical appearance of the Tufts campus (especially in comparison to ND and BC). And we did feel there was a different vibe there than at ND or BC. I’m not saying that vibe was better or worse, just different. My D did not end up applying to Tufts but was admitted to ND & BC, and currently attends ND. I agree with the above poster that South Bend sometimes gets a bad rap by those who haven’t really spent a lot of time there. Yes, it is certainly no Boston (one of my favorite cities). But there are plenty of bars, restaurants, movie theaters, malls, etc. (and the bars you can’t take advantage of until senior year anyway, unless you get a fake ID, which many students do at all schools). Until that time - beyond dorm parties - many of the sports teams and dorms unofficially rent an off-campus house for the purpose of throwing parties. Plus the upperclassman who actually live off-campus and throw parties. Also at ND (and BC) are the football weekends, which make every other weekend in the fall electric. The Notre Dame alumni network speaks for itself, there are very few schools that match it. And ND/surrounding area has plenty of food options, I really wouldn’t worry about that. All 3 schools are good schools that each seem to have their own set of pluses and minuses for you. Assuming finances are equal (or reasonably close), then try to decide the best you can based on fit - of not only the program offerings, but equally important, how you felt while on campus, where you see yourself being happy spending 4 years. Good luck!

Agree with the above poster…go based on fit (except I think the tufts campus is lovely…lots of brand-spanking new buildings and renovated older facilities. I also much prefer its location over BC’s, where my uncle was a prof. (Can’t speak to ND because the schools in the Midwest we visited were umichigan, uchicago, northwestern, WUSTL, Carleton and Macalaster).

Tufts and the Catholic, religious schools couldn’t be any more different in vibe and culture. Tufts is far more diverse and attracts a nerdier, more creative crowd. Sports and frats are central to the other two. Tufts’ teams are doing extremely well in their league but it’s not a big sports spectator school. Both my kids applied to tufts, but neither would even look at a Catholic college (and I’m Catholic but what I’d call catholic-lite) because student body diversity was important to them. Our own family is diverse, at least religiously–my husband is Jewish and the boys were raised with knowledge of, and celebrating, both religions. One ended up at tufts and the other at brown. They were both really happy with their respective student bodies and the culture on their campus. It’s a really important feature of college life, so make sure you’re getting what you’d like in that regard.

Neither BC or ND have frats. But they are directionally a bit more more sporty and preppy than tufts. But these are broad generalizations. All types of kids thrive at all three

^ My bad about the frats, but they seem to have a more bro culture that plays into their big sports spectator culture. That really isn’t prevalent at tufts. But I agree that all types of kids are at each school, but probably in different concentrations that affect overall vibe.

I would agree with big sports at ND (and, I imagine, at BC). If you are a school spirit kid that enjoys that, it’s a definite big plus. If you don’t care about sports, then don’t go to games, there’s plenty to do otherwise. It is not at all accurate about the “bro culture”, which is actually a pretty derogatory term. At least not at ND, I don’t have enough experience with BC to say. Maybe someone who is familiar with that school can weigh in.

In terms of alumni presence, the head of the EPA (during the Obama administration) was recently on campus to give a talk (several EPA Branch Chiefs are also Tufts alums)

Tufts alums (as well as BC, BU, Brandeis, Harvard and MIT alums) teach courses at Tufts’ Experimental College
http://www.excollege.tufts.edu/courses

Tufts has an entire Institute focused on the environment, and they sponsor a yearly career night to meet with alumni in the environmental field

https://environment.tufts.edu/blog/news/2018/03/23/tea-career-night-recap/
https://alumniandfriends.tufts.edu/attend-events-reunions/environmental-networking-night-and-alumni-panel

Tufts Engineering sponsors a number of alumni student networking events
https://alumniandfriends.tufts.edu/attend-events-reunions/engineering-alumni-student-networking-night
http://engineering.tufts.edu/e-week

The Tufts Entrepreneurial Network is an alumni group that sponsors many engineering/entrepreneurial activities and has a Linkedin group

The Tufts Financial Network is an alumni group that sponsors many financial events
http://emerald.tufts.edu/alumni/tfn/

The Tisch College alumni Mentor Network is an alumni group that helps students looking for internships/jobs in the government/non profit sector
https://tischcollege.tufts.edu/education/tisch-summer-fellows/tufts-alumni-mentor-network

Then there is the infamous “Fletcher Mafia” for IR/diplomacy
http://english.donga.com/List/3/all/26/263341/1

Tufts launched the global sustainability movement in higher education at its Talloires campus in the French Alps in 1990

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talloires_Declaration
http://ulsf.org/talloires-declaration/

Neither BC nor Notre Dame on the list of 171 US members.
http://ulsf.org/96-2/#US

Three environmental courses are offered as a part of Tufts’ summer program at the Talloires campus.
https://ase.tufts.edu/europeanCenter/programs/talloires/courses.asp

Tufts hosts one of the largest student run energy conferences in the region

http://tuftsenergyconference.com/index.html

The Stockholm Environment Institute is a partner of Tufts, with an office on the Tufts campus. They co-sponsor environmental internships with Tufts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_Environment_Institute_US_Center
https://environment.tufts.edu/funding/tie-sei-internships/tie-sei-interns/