As to the earlier conversation about whether any of our kids/spouses would give up their jobs to be SAHMs or SAHDs. ShawSon’s prior GF was hoping for that. His wife seems unlikely to want that as she has been very ambitious. She has one of the best jobs in her field in the world. The plan she and ShawSon have seems to be that when they have kids, she will approach some of the major VCs and seek a half-time position applying her world-class skills a couple of their portfolio companies in return for a base salary and equity. The only possible game changer is if ShawSon’s company has a strong exit. Then, I suppose the two of them might take time off to be with the kids for a while before reengaging with the work world.
ShawD has always planned to work part-time when kids were little – she chose to be an NP rather than an MD because she wanted to be able to spend time with kids. She says she will move from primary care to a higher-paying but more routine specialty at that point. But, at the moment, no spouse in sight. Had she married her previous BF, I doubt he would have stopped working – he’s a very good software engineer with big tech and generally likes the work.
I have suggested that they think about living in Canada (where both kids are citizens) when kids are little as daycare and healthcare are covered and mat/pat leaves are long. I kind of doubt that will happen, but not impossible.
S2 and GF of two years were just here visiting for six weeks. First time we’ve met her IRL. Apparently they’ve been talking marriage and kids! The big question is where they’d live – in the US or Ukraine. There are significant pluses and minuses on each side. They are 30 and 31, so have much to consider. He wanted her to come here to get a feel for the US as part of their decision making process.
My personal hope is that thanks to the pandemic, both have been able to WFH, and perhaps a hybrid of six months in each country would work, esp with some of the on-the-ground opportunities S has been pursuing. I’d be good with them living with us and helping (not FT) with child care. Am keeping my thoughts to myself until they bring up the topic. Not my decision to make!
I was home FT for three years (my sons were 15 mo apart), and we had no family nearby. We never left the kids alone with the grandparents. My parents’ house wasn’t safe, and H (for good reasons) wouldn’t leave the guys with his parents.
I went back FT when S2 was 18 mo old, even though childcare was more than my salary the first couple years. It was to maintain my economic viability down the road. Even just three years off cost me in salary progression. H was working 70 hours/wk plus long commute, and we had no extra help, so while I had a career, it wasn’t going anywhere. Later went to PT, then had major health issues which ultimately took me out of the workplace altogether.
You know, the problem is that women are punished for leaving the workforce because they don’t get as much in Social Security as they otherwise might have. There is also the issue of trust. The legal and social barriers to divorce have disappeared. A woman who has children in a marriage and leaves her job to take care of those children is placing her fate in the hands of a man who may leave her poorer and more vulnerable than before. I told my D not to quit working because even if she turns over all her salary to daycare, it’s only for a short time and she is racking up pension and retirement. It’s not a good situation but it’s the way it is.
PS it’s not that I don’t love and trust my son-in-law or think he will do this. But you never know and I don’t want my child to suffer poverty in old age.
When both of the parents work, the cost of daycare is divided among both of the parents. So both of them can continue to advance their careers and contribute to retirement.
I know that women have shouldered the burden of childcare but it’s time that we consider that both parents are equal partners. Not just in childcare costs but also in career advancement.
If we change how we think about child rearing, maybe it will finally change.
I have an acquaintance who has no children and worked until she was 70 years old having had a long career in education and then the academic world of education teaching teaching.
She believes the spousal benefit should not exist. Shouldn’t get anything off someone else’s work record (in the spousal context). Idk how she feels about survivor benefits for children or widows… It wasn’t a topic I wanted to discuss with her since she obviously feels like what I will eventually take (b/c the spousal I will qualify for through dh is higher than my own) makes me some sort of leech on the system.
The big problem is that we as a society do not acknowledge caregiving (of children or elderly) as economically valuable work. It’s all supposed to happen in the background. But when providing such work becomes too onerous and costly, individuals stop providing it. And that is what we are seeing now. We can’t expect people (mostly women) to immolate themselves on the altar of family piety if there are no supports for doing so. We live in a profoundly short-termist world. I’m not happy about it but the advice I give my D is aimed at her personal advantage and well-being, not society’s.
When I was working at a small startup, one young male told me why should people have to support people with kids. I was technically there all the time just like they did(12 hours a day), even with young kids. My philosophy is there are always people who like to complain about everything.
Well I think the problem is that the individual human person is defined as an economically productive unit that earns x amount of dollars. So much of caregiving is necessary but uncompensated or lowly compensated. Every adult human is expected to work 40 hours/wk in the marketplace. But other things, important things that don’t get recorded in the GDP, don’t get done.
I completely agree. I had a very talented employee in a job that required lots of travel. She became pregnant with a man with whom there was not going to be an ongoing relationships. Although she had thought she was not going to ever have a child (by choice), once pregnant, she decided to keep the child. But, without external support, she couldn’t travel to clients frequently enough and this hurt her income. I suggested that she talk to clients that she worked with in Sweden and Germany and see if they had a job for her. Daycare, education, maternity leave would all be free and good. Her compensation would be lower but her life could work. I knew the German company would, but the Swedish company did also and she moved to Sweden. She has had a lot of success with the client.
As I probably mentioned earlier in the thread, I think my Canadian-American kids should at the very least move to Canada to give birth for that reason.
I haven’t managed to get through all the posts but here is my take:
I was an older mother and son now 22. If he waits until he is 32 I will be 70. If he waits until the age I had him I will be 78. Hubby will be 82.
So to play an active role in any grandparenting duties other than just a ‘wallet’ he has to have children within the next 10 years.
I would rather be grandchildless than have him have a child within the next ten years!
I really enjoyed being an older mother. Financial security being a big plus point but I also really enjoyed being single and travelling the world. I want that for my son.
I think we want what we had for our children if it has made us happy.
H and fiancée are mid-30s. I suspect they’re contemplating what they want and at some point they may share their preferences. H is 80 and I just started Medicare so if they want us to help babysit or anything we hope they let us know i. the near future while we are still able enough.
My daughter (not married) asked me the other day if I would just raise her child (she doesn’t have one) as it just seemed so long to commit to 18 years. I told her yes, she could just visit whenever she wanted to but to please get me that grandchild immediately.
I didn’t tell her the commitment was for longer than 18 years.
I had a friend who had a daughter the same age as mine, and they happened to go to the same college and join the same sorority. My friend was killed just before the girls started college. Today I read on FB that this daughter had had a baby in July and I was so sad that my friend wasn’t there to enjoy a grandchild she would have adored.
I think having a child is probably the most important decision a person can ever make. If you don’t have a plan on how to care for the child then you have no business having one.
My wife and I got married right after college. We waited 7 years to have children. We made sure to pay off our college loans. My wife and I made similar money when she got pregnant. She was a consultant at the time and went part-time when the first came. About 22 months later she quit. She wanted to. We had another. We had lean years on one salary. I could rest easy though knowing my children were being raised right. She slowly got back in the workforce. Now she is back being a professional. If she didn’t have the break she would be making more money.
But in the end we are a team. There has never been her money and my money. We will never divorce. (Our old joke was if you filed for divorce that meant you took full custody of two very active children. No one wanted that responsibility.) I would love for more money for retirement and college, but we were not willing to pay that price.
Did my wife take a risk leaving the workforce and slowing her career? Yes but in the end she was betting on me and she knows I am one of the most loyal people around. We both take family seriously.
I hope my kids can find that person for them. It will be tough. My oldest was telling her friend at college that some of the ways her BF was treating her was BS and she used me as an example for the way I treated her mom. Kids are always watching.
My daughter and her boyfriend stopped by last night and mentioned they were looking at houses. I mentioned school districts and she let me know they have chosen not to have children and have taken permanent steps to prevent it. I wasn’t surprised by their decision as she has never liked children. So to answer the title question, I am just a little sad, but not too much so since I expected this would be her decision. I think I would react differently if son and his fiancée made the same announcement as they have always given the impression that they want children.
I don’t know if it is possible to figure out the extra taxes you pay living in a ‘good’ school district v. the increased value of the house when you sell it in 10, 15, 20 years.
I lived in the ‘good’ (best in the state) school district and of course my kids went to a parochial school in the city. My taxes were about $700/yr more than if i lived across the street in the city, and it was pretty much all school taxes (there were some other metro district differences). All other things being the same (they weren’t) like the sq footage, HOA, conditions of the property, I don’t think any increase in value would have mattered based on the school district.
When houses were selling like hotcakes here last year, it didn’t matter which county or school district you lived in, the values were all going up the same and those living in the not-so-great school district (city) would have saved the $700-$5000 a year difference in school taxes over the years (I didn’t pay much in taxes because I had a very reasonable townhouse and live in the same county as the pro football, hockey and basketball players - when they built bigger houses, my taxes went down).
We moved to a town with among the best school systems in the state with the full intention to send them to public schools K-12. No doubt helps the property value and I personally would invest in that even without kids in the school. But, ShawSon and ShawD went to private middle school (the elementary and HS are great but middle schools in all of the good school districts are considered mediocre). Then ShawD went to private HS (and we don’t regret that choice even though the public HS was very good).