Be Warned

Colleges and Universities A-Z Indiana University - Bloomington
1

<p>I arrived in Bloomington, Indiana with the noblest of intentions. I had done research, I had looked at rankings, I had visited the campus, I had even visited and posted on College Confidential.</p>

<p>I thought I had it all figured out. I was going to go to IU for Kelley, for their business program. I was going to get job offers that only Ivy Leaguers typically get and spend less than half of what they do on my education. After all, I had read online that it was possible, I had seen their investment banking workshop, I had seen their placement statistics.</p>

<p>I was going to make it big. Or so I thought.</p>

<p>I got lucky at first. By chance my age made me just old enough that I could live in an on-campus apartment while most freshmen have to endure the dorms. I bought a big bed and a big TV and moved right in.</p>

<p>Things went well at first. I had a freshmen only class that was small and had spirited discussions. I seemed to be doing well. But most importantly I was there, making it.</p>

<p>Things went downhill from there.</p>

<p>I remember sitting in that freshmen only class and hearing our teacher Gerald Pugh compare us to Ivy Leaguers. He made some motions with his hands. "You're here" he said holding his palm out flat. "They're here" he said holding his other palm out flat, higher than the first one.</p>

<p>I soon learned what a 'weeder' course is when I got my first grade back from BUS-A100 Intro to Accounting. A 50%. I remember taking the exam and thinking I got at least a B. That's how trick questions work. With legitimate questions you know when you're stumped. But when Professor Tiller pulls out his "Is a gain or loss on a sale of land included in the income statement" and then deftly inserts it into a question that has basically nothing to do with that, you skate by thinking you're doing fine. Never mind that that material is covered in mere seconds in the class immediately before the first exam.</p>

<p>About half of the people in BUS-A100 will withdraw from it after they take that first exam. Doesn't mean they won't come back and take it again, I did, but they're done for the moment.</p>

<p>Things proceeded to get worse. I was told by Gerald Pugh that I was doing fine in his class, he never filed midterm grade reports even though he is required to do so by the university, but still I thought I was doing fine. I got the lowest grade in the entire course.</p>

<p>I soon became embroiled in a grade appeal where I valiantly tried to get the grades changed of every single student in that course since none of us were ever told our grades. I was told by the Academic Fairness Committee that I could have either a grade of P or W.</p>

<p>I never really became involved in the traditional campus party lifestyle that is so prevalent at IU. Getting plastered and blacking out at a house party never really appealed to me. So positions like fraternity president and being involved with things like Little 500 passed me by. Some teachers actually believe that holding such positions is a good thing and look down on those who don't 'get involved' with the campus.</p>

<p>I fought it. I studied hard, researched possible career options, applied to join the kelley student government, looked into forming an IU gun club, but it didn't matter. Burnout was taking its course and fight as you may, if you don't find a place to belong at IU you will suffer for it.</p>

<p>I became aware of things that the teachers and administrators prefer to keep quiet. I mentioned weeding earlier but it goes deeper than that. The teachers here actually resent the students for their party lifestyle. So they try to weed them out with trick questions and low class averages. Funny thing is, the people that succeed and are happy at IU are those very partiers who join fraternities or sororities, get access to secret class files, and do well at IU. They are the ones who end up in the investment banking workshop and oddly enough the ones who get the big-time investment banking gigs that I was crazy about.</p>

<p>The injustice of it all, the sheer madness started to get to me. I wrote about it in classes that didn't really require it, such as BUS-X220 Career Perspectives and was smacked down by teachers who simply didn't want to hear it. My grades suffered.</p>

<p>Strange things started to happen to me. Bad things. My moped was towed first, and then vandalized. The people in the upstairs apartment began tapping on the walls at all hours of the day and night. I tried tapping out messages in morse code as my cute way of communicating with them but all I got back was indiscriminate tapping. They tapped so frequently I couldn't sleep. I tried going up and knocking on their door to get them to quiet down, but they always pretended that they weren't home, even though I could hear them inside.</p>

<p>Not only did the neighbors upstairs tap on the walls, but soon everyone in the entire apartment complex began tapping on the walls. They would tap immediately after I did something, anything in my apartment. If I shined a flashlight on a wall they would tap on that wall. If I paused the TV, they would tap on the wall. If they saw me rollover in bed they would tap on the wall.</p>

<p>There is so much more to this story but I've already taken up so much space here, let me just leave it as it is. To end this story, or at least what you should take away from it, don't go to IU, if you are out-of-state stay out-of-state if you are in-state and you have no other options due to financial concerns then realize immediately what you are in for.</p>

<p>Realize that there is a price for doing the right thing, and while it may have benefits down the road, you may not see them for a while.</p>

2

<p>Since my first post is so long I should just tell you what you should do about IU.</p>

<p>Don’t go there unless you think you will enjoy partying with fraternities and want to join a fraternity yourself. If you do you may actually enjoy IU, I can’t say, I wouldn’t know, but for the remaining majority at IU who get drowned out by the bacchanal antics of the Greeks it will wear on you. There are other ways to get involved, the GLBT associations, the music school nerds, but nothing comes close to the monolithic presence that Greek society has on the IU campus.</p>

<p>The weeding, the contempt that the teachers have for the students, the lack of non-Greek students having a voice in campus society, all of these add up to a situation that will not be enjoyable to the average CCer.</p>

<p>If you had what it takes to even find this site, and strive for a better life through education, you have what it takes to make more of yourselves than being an IU fraternity member.</p>

<p>You can do better.</p>

3

<p>I’m sorry you had such a bad experience & I hope you find a place where you are more at home.</p>

<p>For the record, for those who may read your description–please be aware the BryanDavis’ experience is one singular experience. There are many students who thrive at IU, and they are not all in frats.</p>

<p>My D had a great freshman year. She is not a business major, she is in A&S/Hutton, and took some very challenging courses. She worked her tail off on school work, made lots of friends, and did lots of cool things on/off campus. Some of her dorm friends rushed for sororities, but she did not. It made no difference in their friendships. She’s just not interested in joining a sorority, but she likes all kinds of people.</p>

<p>I cannot speak to the culture in the business school, it may be very different. But BryanDavis seems to want to paint the entire school with a very negative brush, and while clearly he had a bad experience himself, I’d say most have a very good experience. We are out of state and D had lots of other options. She chose IU and has had no regrets.</p>

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<p>Does she Party?</p>

5

<p>I think you would benefit from counseling. Most problems appear to be internal.</p>

6

<p>BD, I’m sorry that IU was such a poor fit for you and I hope that you are able to transfer to a school that matches your expectations. I do think, though, that a couple of lessons can be learned from your experience.</p>

<p>First & foremost, you weren’t ‘lucky’ to be able to live in the on campus apartments. That first year in the dorms is when most college kids make the friends that they will have for the rest of their college years. Living in the apts away from other freshman is an isolating experience and the direct opposite of what new students need. The relationships built in the first few weeks of school are really important.</p>

<p>Second, regarding Kelley’s Investment Banking Workshop, I cringe whenever I hear prospective students basing their enrollment decision on their belief that they will be one of the chosen few to get that experience. It is a great opportunity but very few students will get the chance to participate.</p>

<p>My son just graduated from Kelley and is very satisfied with the overall experience. He was a DA so that might factor into his opinion, but he was happy with most of his instructors. Some of them went above and beyond common expectations in their interactions with their students. Never heard of Gerald Pugh, but reading what you wrote he allegedly said, I would have taken that as the kids who are at the Ivy League schools have a giant headstart career-wise over other business students just by virtue of the reputation of those schools. I wouldn’t have taken it as a slam against the students at IU.</p>

<p>Finally, you don’t have to be in a frat or sorority at IU to fit in! Most students aren’t, my son included. And IU isn’t filled with students that party from Wednesday to Sunday. Are there some that do? Sure, and probably too many. But there are plenty of kids there that have a good work/party balance. </p>

<p>Good luck at your next school.</p>

7

<p>BryanD, not that your question merits a response, really–but no, she’s not a big party person. That is not to say she never has a drink or two, or never goes to a party or goes out–but she’s not into the big crazy drunken party scene, or the Weds-Saturday party schedule. She typically went out Friday night and Saturday. Weeknights she’d usually study, or sometimes go to a lecture or reading or movie, if she didn’t have to work. Going out often meant pizza with friends, playing games, going to see a band, etc. Not going to a big bash that was all about alcohol drinking.</p>

<p>If you are implying that students who aren’t into the party lifestyle will not like IU–I’d say you are incorrect. It’s a big school, and many aren’t ‘party animals’, there’s plenty of social life w/out that, if that is what you want. </p>

<p>Sorry you didn’t find your niche. Hope you find a good spot for yourself elsewhere. Attitude is key–now you’ve vented, so figure out another path to take, if this one was the wrong one. Good luck to you.</p>

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<p>ditto what barrons said.</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>Not a big party person and she goes out every weekend?</p>

<p>You’re kidding yourself.</p>

<p>And that’s the kind of person that does well at IU.</p>

<p>Not that you would know.</p>

<p>I doubt there’s a single student or parent of a student that would admit, publicly, on the internet, that they’re into the “big crazy drunken party scene”. And that’s how students like Lauren Spierer end up getting taken. They go out, party, get drunk (of course), and then do something incredibly stupid like walk home alone at 4am.</p>

<p>I’m kind of surprised at the hostility I’m getting here. And apparently from people who didn’t even read my first message in its entirety. You’d think large chunks of it would raise eyebrows, but apparently not.</p>

<p>I wrote it to help others avoid making the same mistake I did in going to IU. Spending all that money on an out-of-state school when it never really warranted it. If you want to take it as ‘venting’ or something of the sort, that’s your choice, but it’s not the intent of the writing. Certainly I didn’t benefit psychologically from reliving that nightmare.</p>

<p>Funny thing too, I never said I didn’t graduate from IU but you write as if you know I didn’t.</p>

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<p>A lot of the kids on this forum that have a bad opinion of IU wanted to get into Kelley and didn’t make it, and that colors their overall impression of IU, making them stress the negative aspects of college life at IU that you will find in just about any school, even to the point of complaining about silly things like the weather. It is easy to resent the direct admits/honors students and all their advantages, which, admittedly, are legion compared to the non-direct admits. During freshman year, IU/Kelley is a two-track system, the haves are the direct admits (and especially the ones in Hutton) and the have nots are the non-direct admits trying to get accepted to Kelley. It is very stressful to try and get into Kelley while at the same time adjusting to college life. BD is correct that you should think long and hard before investing a year of you life and lots of money (if OOS), but he is wrong to blame the professors, etc. for the fact that IU/Kelley has so many weed out classes. Kelley is a top ten program, and they would not be ranked so high if they let anybody in.</p>

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<p>BD, based on the negative experiences you wrote about in your initial post (which I did read thoroughly), it’s perfectly reasonable that some people would think that you left after a year, especially if you were paying OOS rates.</p>

<p>I think you are mistaking concern for hostility. Just because others have had better experiences at IU, that doesn’t make your experience any less real for you. I just hope that you will be able to move on successfully in whatever path you choose. Speaking with a counselor about your feelings could be beneficial.</p>

12

<p>“I doubt there’s a single student or parent of a student that would admit, publicly, on the internet, that they’re into the “big crazy drunken party scene”. And that’s how students like Lauren Spierer end up getting taken. They go out, party, get drunk (of course), and then do something incredibly stupid like walk home alone at 4am.”</p>

<p>Guess what BryanDavis, we’re all college students, and some of us do party. Yes, I went through a phase where I partied Wednesday to Saturday, I am greek, and guess what? I scored an internship at a top 10 company, graduated with no issues, and am currently a graduate student. </p>

<p>Stop trying to make your poor collegiate experience influence the choices of others. Let them experience things as they come, and let them make the decisions that affect their future. You chose to come to IU for whatever reasons, and I’m sorry it didn’t live up to them. But IU obviously lives up to the expectations of thousands of students each year, and I’m sorry you weren’t one of them. </p>

<p>Flame me if you want, I don’t care. I’m happy with the choices I made and the life/lifestyle I led.</p>

13

<p>“Not a big party person and she goes out every weekend?”</p>

<p>What, exactly, did you do on Friday and Saturday evenings, BryanDavis?
Yes, she went out. Because (gasp) she is not a person who stays in her apartment/room by herself on a weekend night, unless she’s sick or it’s final’s week! She would be miserable if she did that. </p>

<p>You sound pretty miserable, by the way. There’s no need to be a drinker to be able to have a social life! She went to lots of get togethers where they had movie marathons, played board games, etc. And had lots of fun.</p>

<p>However, her party habits or lack thereof are beside the point. She’s happy at IU and successful. </p>

<p>I honestly don’t see your point–you seem to imply you have to be a heavy drinker to do well. I’d say that heavy drinkers who do well do so in spite of their party habits, not because of them!</p>

<p>I didn’t intend my post to be hostile in any way. I was just trying to present a balanced view.</p>

<p>You win on hostility–that was a low and callous comment about Lauren. No, she shouldn’t have been out walking alone at 4 am. No one should. That has zero to do with your topic, and it seems incredibly mean-spirited to say something like that. I think you really need to think about who is hostile here.</p>

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<p>I did notice OP’s claim on Frat’s access to “secret” class file. There may be some truth to it. For academically strong students, these are useless advantages. For other students, it may be an attraction. Perhaps, OP went through internal struggles on issues like that. IM2006’s point is well taken though. You do not decide coming to IU b/c you would like to get into the Workshops. </p>

<p>Regarding the FRATs, my boys just mentioned to me about the tragedy at Cornell University. I would say it again: if it happens at Cornell, it could happen at IU. Perhaps Cornell has deep pocket to fend off lawsuits like this. </p>

<p>[Cornell</a> Fraternity Sued Over Student?s Drinking Death | WZAKCleveland - 93.1 WZAK Cleveland’s Home for the R&B Community](<a href=“http://wzakcleveland.com/national/karenvaughn/cornell-fraternity-sued-over-student’s-drinking-death/]Cornell”>Cornell Fraternity Sued Over Student’s Drinking Death)</p>

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<p>I know the frat guys had a lot of resources for one of the classes my son took spring semester. More the prof’s fault than anybody else’s for the way he structured the class.</p>

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<p>As someone who was there for 3 years (currently transferring out to NYU), I’d have to say that your experience is really your experience, which is unfortunately, a bad one. </p>

<p>Believe it or not
 I don’t party. I’ve never been to a raging house party, social frat/sorority events, and so forth. I’ve made plenty of friends over the few years that love to see performances by Jacobs students, eat out at a restaurant on 4th st, go up to Indy, and just hang out at an apartment and have a few drinks but not get wasted (I never do as I hate the feeling of being drunk and stupid). It takes time to find the people that you really want to hang out with. Of course you’re going to come across a lot of students who just want to party as much as possible (my ex-roommate was one of them), but you’ll also come across others that would love just to hang out and eat a nice restaurant (me). I guess you could say that I never entered the whole “college student stereotype” as so many students at IU go into; I matured far faster than others and am one of those people who WANT to have intellectual conversations and devoutly watch TED. </p>

<p>I am not too familiar with the social atmosphere at Kelley, but as a previous student of FRIT, I never felt anything that you felt with my teachers and fellow FRIT students (students taking 300-level and 400-level courses). I loved all of my professors with my department. They were all very knowledgable, kind, and genuinely cared for their students. </p>

<p>I actually took BUS-A 100 twice. I dropped it the first time because I had depression due to a major death in the family
 but I was able to get past the midterm. I failed that exam but the 2nd time I took the class, I was really prepared. I did not have your professor though; I had Vivian Winston. I remember preparing for the midterm 2 weeks prior by doing one of the past midterms that it was going to be a lot harder than I had originally anticipated. I realized that the class only teaches you the very basics and that it was through practice (as in doing about 10-12 old midterms as I did) that one could only truly grasp that class. I learned from those old midterms, which is given to you well ahead of time, that there will be a few trick questions and several hard questions on the exam. I used to hate trick questions but they’re there to really test you to see if you TRULY know the material. That midterm really tests you on how much you understand and know like the back of your hand. The 2nd time I did the exam, I thought that I would receive an A for sure but received a B (B+ with curve). </p>

<p>I’m very sorry about how you feel about your situation with Gerald Pugh but come on
 no teacher in this world is going to change grades for an ENTIRE class simply because they didn’t know what their grades were. What would’ve been different? If you did well enough to get a C in the class, do you believe you deserve a grade change because you didn’t know that you were getting all those low grades? It’s all numbers and class rules; if the numbers and class rules themselves match up with the respective grade
 then that it what was deserved. I’ve had a few grades where I felt that I should have received a higher grade. For example, I did enough WORK to earn a 98% (A) in one of my classes but due to one more absence than allowed, it went down one letter grade to an A- automatically. I knew that and respect that my professor followed her own class rules that were laid out in the syllabus and didn’t make an exception for me, even though I was the best student in her class. </p>

<p>I do understand that frats and sororities have major benefits when it comes to the academics part of IU with all of the connections, but that does not mean that one can not succeed. I have several friends who are Kelley students who are not part of a frat or sorority (and would never join) and are succeeding very well. Several of them are Kelley honors students and Huttons Honors College students. One of my closest friends, Sammy, has a 3.9 GPA and will be graduating next year with a Finance, Accounting, Economics (I know that’s not part of Kelley), and Entrepreneurship quadruple major with Kelley honors (he’s been at IU for 5 years right now and will actually be finished come this winter). He lives 35 minutes away from campus and doesn’t like to party at all (I’m talking about the stereotypical college parties). He has to be one of the most successful Kelley students right now and he’s done it without any frat or even tutor help. It’s sheer hard work and focus.</p>

<p>Your apartment situation
 well that’s just weird. I’ve never heard of that before and not sure what to say about that. </p>

<p>How can I summarize this into one simple phrase? Your mileage will vary
 greatly.</p>

<p>One more thing: Don’t be so narrow-minded. If you’re going to be this narrow-minded out in the real world of business (as evidenced by your posts of warning), well
 perhaps business shouldn’t be your field. If you’re giving up now from what you’ve told me, then I don’t have the highest of expectations from you. Tough love.</p>

17

<p>im going to have to agree with Bryan on this one. parents really have no idea what goes on nowadays in college. i finished my first year at the University of Rhode Island, and it was EXACTLY how Bryan put it. just crazy party fiends with no appreciation for the education. your success was based on how well you were able to succumb to the juvenile antics of the school. thankfully, i did well and transferred out to NYU (for this fall). but i definitely see where bryan is coming from. this was a fair WARNING to people like me and Bryan. DO NOT GO IF YOU DON’T LIKE FRATS. sure you can survive without joining frats, but the whole point to being in a school such as IU and URI is to be involved with the school and network (because there is literally nothing better to do). </p>

<p>i honestly don’t see why you guys are giving Bryan so much flak
he is warning people like HIM about his situation. im an example. i was in the EXACT same position. i hated it! i had to explain to one of my professors that extra credit is only supposed to be added to MY point value and not the class total (it was the difference between an A- and B
i didn’t get the A-
). he then lectured me on why its sometimes okay to give in and to just take the grade. some places are not for certain people. i made a mistake choosing my school and so did he. we just want to make sure people don’t make that same mistake.</p>

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<p>[Greek</a> Organizations: Activities and Organizations: Current Students: Indiana University Bloomington](<a href=“Indiana University Bloomington”>Indiana University Bloomington)</p>

<p>Only 17% of IU students are Greek. That leaves 83% who aren’t! Most of that 83% find their own niche and are happy with their experience at IU.</p>

19

<p>While I can’t speak for IU’s campus, seeing as I’ve never even visited, I can understand some of Bryan’s points. While it’s certainly possible to thrive by working extremely hard and finding your passion (fortunately, I have), many students get jobs and internships simply through connections. That’s not to say that all students slack off and rely on their friends or contacts for help, but it’s probably more common than many people realize. And I do find it incredibly suspicious that, even after his professor specifically told him that his grade was fine in that class, he later found out that it was the worst of all the students. If that part of his post was true, then the professor seriously dropped the ball on this one.</p>

<p>However, I’d certainly hope that IU has a bustling campus scene apart from Greek Life and bars, so maybe you haven’t met the right people yet. Some dorms can be more homogeneous than others in terms of their social niches, so maybe a different dorm or a club tailored towards your interests would help?</p>

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<p>This might be true, but it sure feels like a lot more, like 70%. On every walk between classes, I saw Greek letters on seemingy every other person’s shirt, the only parties you hear about are Greek ones, many of campus’s biggest charity/rec events (IUDM, Little 5, etc) are all engulfed by the Greek community, and when other groups try to immerse themselves into these activities, they’re looked down upon.</p>

<p>For example, I remember being at the Women’s Little 500 Race this past year, and Teter (a group of so-called “GDI’s”, as referred to by the Greek System) kicked ass and the attitude of the Greek students after the race (Especially Delta Gamma and their Little 5 pair) was that it’s unfair for a non-greek organization win Little Five. Same thing happened when the cutters won the men’s race the next day. The entire crowd ** boo’d. **</p>

<p>Another time, I was doing a group project with my group on the 5th floor of the West Tower of the Wells Library. (For those who don’t know, the West tower is much nicer than the East Tower) We were doing our work, and we were approached by a group of frat guys and they attempted to kick is out because, according to them, “there’s an east tower for a reason and that’s because the west tower is only for greeks.” We didn’t give up our seats, but it further embellished the negative stereotype we had of the Greek system.</p>

<p>Don’t get me wrong, I made a lot of Greek friends and I’m sure than the majority of people in the Greek System are very nice people. It’s just the stereotypes and the big picture of the community that’s very negative if you’re not a part of it, and it’ll make you feel unconfortable if you’re not the most social person in the world.</p>

<p>I do, in many respects, agree with the OP. IU is definitely not for everyone. It wasn’t for me and that’s why I said “see you later” after last year and am transferring to the Univ.of Minnesota.</p>