<p>I am interested in your D's choice of Lafayette for her list. . .my D's best friend went there (I sorta think of this friend as MY kid, I should add) and loved it. Like your daughter, she is friendly but quiet. She graduated this last year and has had lots of opportunities in the work world as a result of her work doing research with a prof, though not in English or music, I should note. Anyway, her years at Lafayette were really good. </p>
<p>I also have a S at Soozie's D's school, Brown, which has a rep for lots of partying. My S chose to live in a sub-free dorm this year. There were about fifty other first-years who chose the same, and they live in on a single floor of a dorm known to inspire real cohesiveness. He does go to parties and dances and has a great time, but doesn't take part in the drinking. I don't know if he will chose the sub-free life next year, but it really is possible not to drink if you don't want to. Perhaps you could see if substance-free dorms are an option at the schools you all are considering.</p>
<p>If your daughter is considering Tufts, she may want to check our U. of Rochester and Brandeis. Though not LAC's, they are small universities and I don't think enrollment is over 6000. Barnard may also be worth a look. I've always been a bit concerned about small colleges in remote areas, as I think frat life and drinking could become the dominant social scene. But the fact is that there is lots of drinking everywhere.</p>
<p>Second the suggestion of Wellesley (my alma mater). If she can't visit, there are other ways to "show interest", such as requesting an alumna interview in her area. There may be times when Wellesley (and other colleges) visit your area and she can attend and sign in at those.</p>
<p>I can't speak for the drinking scene, and as mini says drinking is present in a lot of the small LAC's, but I would suggest Bates (where my son is a visiting student right now due to Katrina) and possibly Bowdoin. Neither has frats. They are a tad over your 5-hour range, maybe, but just a tad. Plenty of kids at Bates from metro NY, so she'd have easy companionship for flying/driving trips home.</p>
<p>Saying there is drinking on every campus (there is) is VERY different from saying the drinking scene is the same on every campus. One is (with very, very rare exceptions) obviously true, the other is hugely false. </p>
<p>Virtually every campus (of the kinds we are describing) has between 20-30% total abstainers. That 10% variance is there, but does little to define the campus culture one way or the other. Of the remaining, for the sake of argument we'll say 75%, on the average American campus, a minimum median of 44% drank at least 5 drinks in one episode at least once in the past two weeks - and most both drank more, and did it more than once. This leaves the average campus with 31% "moderate drinkers".</p>
<p>But from this you can see that even smallish changes in that first percentage will heavily impact campus culture. 7% lower in the "binge" category puts moderate drinkers in the plurality; 7% higher in the "binge" category puts heavy drinkers in the overall majority. Even within the colleges we are discussing here, you would see a variation from the low 20%s (the women's colleges) to the low 50%s, and everything in between. And at many schools, male drinking rates are higher, and male spectator sports take up a lot of "cultural space", making in more difficult (though never impossible) for a moderate drinker to find a comfortable space. And, for some, it doesn't matter in the least - every kid is different.</p>
<p>It's why you have to kick the tires. Don't be taken in by the canard that because there is heavy drinking at all schools, they are all the same. That is very, very far from the truth.</p>
<p>Drinking is present on all campuses. I work in a college health service. I attend national meetings for college health service providers. Every parent should discuss alcohol with their teenage kids regularly. The pattern of drinking has changed since we were all in college. Binge drinking is worse. The point is to get drunk as fast as possible. The number of kids being seen in ER's with lethal blood alcohol levels is frightening. Talk to your kids about it not only about their own selves but about how they will cope with it around them. Some kids who are not drinking may find themselves in the position of caring for drunken friends. Sometimes kids are afraid of calling for medical help because they dont want to get someone in trouble.Talk about what to do. Realize also if your child is over 18 the health providers taking care of your child who is drunk will not be allowed by privacy laws to notify you. .</p>
<p>I am grateful and somewhat overwhelmed by all these helpful suggestions and I have passed them on to my D.</p>
<p>I'm embarassed to say that I used to believe that since drinking exists on all campuses, as long as a school met D's other criteria (LAC, <6,000, w/in 5 hour drive, with strong English and language depts), pretty much all else would be equal.
My panic set in as I came to realize that this was not always the case, that in fact at some schools if you don't drink you will have a much harder time finding things to do since most weekends revolves around drinking. Since D wants a small school this gives her a much smaller pool of kids to choose from.
She is also a kid who feels most comfortable when she fits in with the majority of the kids. Definitely wants to be part of the mainstream.</p>
<p>I think D will check out Bates and Wellesley and we will go on from there.</p>
<p>This is such a warm and helpful community, I can't thankyou enough.</p>
<p>I third Brandeis. It's small (around 3,000) and has no official Greek life and a very relaxed party scene. At every party I've been to there have been at least a few non-drinkers. A lot of people do other things on campus or go into Boston. It's also quite liberal and about 30 minutes from Boston.</p>
<p>joseimax........solid advice to parents here. So many FROSH arrive on campus w/ little or no knowledge about alcohol poisoning.......and how to make good decisions w/ stupid/sick drunken friends or hallmates. Encourage your student to make their decision prior to encountering the situation, know what you are doing to do........like teaching a youngster to call 911. Anybody can overdrink. Medcal specialists can make sure you recover. Teach yourself and your student to know that calling for help is the correct action. Teach your student to NOT care for their "friends" in the dorm rooms......it is dangerous.</p>
<p>Sarha, that is a nice list of prospective colleges your DD has zeroed in on. I respect her thoughts on frats and sororities but I believe they often get a bad rap too. Many college IFC's closely monitor themselves and are effective in curbing the worst abuses which were previlent in the past, underage drinking, hazing, etc. In addition, at most colleges there are more than enough choices for students who do not wish to participate in Greek life, so that this should not be a problem for most students.</p>
<p>However because her concern is real, the issue of Greek life should be a factor in her decision, althout perhaps not a primary factor. For instance I believe that Conn has not Greeks while Bucknell has a reputation of an active Greek influence. If her choice were close between these two, it would be totally understandable for this consideration to tip the scales to Conn. However if she truly had a significant preference for Bucknell vs Conn, the choice should probably be Bucknell.</p>
<p>Sarha - my S is a frat boy at Bucknell - yes, Greeks are prevalent there, but keep in mind that students cannot rush until fall of soph. yr. there, so that leaves the entire freshman yr. to make friends and develop social habits.</p>
<p>It's true, the Greeks there tend to subsidize the parties/drinking, but there always seems to be lots of alternative choices to that scene. And not all the Greeks at every house drink to oblivion....not saying my S is an 'untainted angel' by any stretch of the imagination, but with his courseload, job, and intramurals, he seems to have found a balance and keeps a pretty even keel.</p>
<p>He was not a big drinker in high school - again, not saying he 'never' had a drink, but was an excellent student, dedicated to whatever sport he was playing at the time and worked 20 hrs. a week, so the time factor probably worked against hard partying for him. BU's social scene was a bit of a revelation for him, but he's found his niche and enjoys it immensely.</p>
<p>Sarha,
I share your concern so when I was at Bucknell two weeks ago for the Fall Open House, I explored the campus to see what was available to do, other than frat parties. As an Alum I know the "good' and the "not-so-good" to look for. The campus was "familiar" and "different" at the same time. The campus is spectacular!</p>
<p>I was very impressed with the upcoming events; Tom Wolfe and Campbell Brown were scheduled to speak on campus the following two weeks. There is a very stylish, coffee house ( much nicer than Dickinson's) and the weekend music performances are well attended. The athletic center is dazzling, the crafts center was closed but nicely located behind the coffee house with outdoor seating, the performing arts center is stunning. There Uptown Club for the edgier music scene, and rockin' bingo for alcohol free fun. </p>
<p>But,even with all of these things to do, there still is a very strong drinking scene. I suspect all these "wonderful" LAC schools in rural places all have a strong drinking scene. Afterall, there isn't a city nearby to explore, so what else is there to do? In fact, there were more than 100 citatitions recently issued by the new police chief because the downtown parties are disruptive to the Lewisburg residents. I applaud the school for running the article on the front page of the school newspaper the Open House weekend.</p>
<p>The college is addressing these issues and has a mandatory alcohol awareness class and a point system; 10 points and the student is asked to leave for a semester. </p>
<p>I feel that the school is proactive in these issues.
If your daughter is strongly against a school with a drinking atmosphere, she should do a day or overnight visit and find out from the students there. They will tell her- the good, the bad ,and the ugly.
I suspect Lafayette and Dickinson are very similar. Great schools in small towns.</p>
<p>Have you considered Haverford? It might be a better fit?</p>
<p>I'll stick in the plug for Smith. There's drinking but it's not a focus of social activity. And in some ways, I think D's total reaction midway through her second year could be summarized as "Wheeeee!" Academic, social, EC's.</p>
<p>Stereotypes: not as tightly wound as Wellesely, not as many off-campus distractions as Barnard.</p>
<p>D is very much a city kid--Columbia had been #1 on paper--and Northampton passed muster as hip enough, with enough to do.</p>
<p>A family friend had recommended Dickinson to my daughter - we did a little looking in to it and learned it had the nickname Drinkinson --it didn't have the program my daughter wanted so we didn't pursue looking into it further to see whether or not it currently lived up to that nickname.</p>
<p>Muhlenberg - kids there seemed really nice - just got a real nice feel when we were there. At all the other schools, when we 'd ask the tour guide about drinking and drugs, we got the canned answer,"well it is a college campus, but there is no pressure to participate." At Muhlenberg, we were told that there were efforts to crack down on underage drinking. Now I guess that could be interpretted as bad since there was a need to crack down, but on the other hand it could indicate that non-drinkers will feel comfortable. (that was about two years ago when we visited)</p>
<p>D is at Muhlenberg and I find the atmosphere less dominated by drinking, although D regularly parties at the soccer and football houses off campus.So it is there, just not as dominant.</p>
<p>The theater scene is thriving at Muhlenberg and we witnessed every inch of the performing arts building being used on a Sat night for rehersals. Students were even practicing in the large entranceway to the Performing Arts building because every stage was being used. We peeked in each one- dancers, one act plays....it was vibrant.</p>
<p>I don't interpret a school cracking down on the drinking/ frat scene as a bad place for non-drinker. Read last weeks(Nov 28th) US News and World report "Say it Ain't So: Frats Gone Mild" - about Colgate's attempt to buy all the frats to crack down on their drinking climate! Reassuring news !! </p>
<p>Also, this Sept. we received a letter from Muhlenberg's President discussing his concern about alcohol and two students who were hospitalized last year for alcohol poisoning. They(like Bucknell) have a mandatory freshmen year class. It is a scary time.</p>
<p>I have a soph at Bucknell. He's not in a frat--doesn't have the time or interest. He's active in U Dems, debates on a parli team, is a poli-sci philo major, plays in a (rock) band, is definitely non-athletic and has been to 1/2 of a football game. (Basketball season is more exciting) He's traveled quite a bit--NYC, Philly, D.C. several times. Bucknell hosted the statewide College Dems convention last year, and is getting ready to host a big debate tourney next weekend. He has "floor guests" when that happens. He loves the music scene there--311 was just there, Straylight run next month. It's been a wonderful experience for him and he is thriving both socially and academically despite being middle class and from Texas. :p</p>
<p>Drinking--it's hard to find a college where it isn't. Bucknell is trying to educate their students and has an alcohol point system to help stem the most egregious behaviors. The public safety blotter they print in their student newspaper indicates limited sucess. Of course the blotter doesn't cover students who don't have drinking issues, which fortunately is the majority of the student body. There are some sub-free floors and sub-free activities. </p>
<p>FWIW, my second attends Carleton where kids also drink. And not only that, the Olies (St. Olaf's) from the "dry" campus across town come over there to party, too. If we scratched off every school where kids drink, our list would have been very small.</p>
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I don't interpret a school cracking down on the drinking/ frat scene as a bad place for non-drinker.
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<p>I didn't think so with respect to Muhlenberg - at least the way it was described to us it sounded like a positive thing there - like an acknowledgement that some freshmen needed a little help adjusting to the freedom of college.</p>
<p>My daughter graduated from Hamilton last year and was very pleased with her experience there. Like most college campuses, there is a drinking crowd (Hamilton is neither worse nor better than the average). There are frats, but my daughter had a very happy social life without getting involved in that scene. </p>
<p>Hamilton is a great school for people who are interested in literature and the language arts. My daughter (a chemistry major) was hired as a writing tutor at the school's Writing Center - that position gave her not only an excellent grounding in editing, but also expanded her knowledge base because she read papers in every discipline.</p>
<p>She had small classes with mentoring professors, who helped her apply for (and receive) a Goldwater scholarship and a Fulbright fellowship. </p>
<p>The weather isn't the greatest, but it's only for 4 years - and the school was 4 hours from our home in CT.</p>
<p>I agree that alcohol use is pandemic. However, I would still look closely at things like statistics on binge drinking and the social feel in terms of how central drinking was for most students. I wouldn't be happy about paying for four years of college that were wasted...in both senses of the word.</p>
<p>D's LAC has some helpful housing choices: one of the four areas has a reputation of being the social focus for parties, one of the others has a rep for being "more studious." D made a beeline for the latter and ranked the former as last on her list of housing options.</p>
<p>Even at schools that don't have a party reputation, there will be a party scene. </p>
<p>What is equally, if not more, important than your daughter knowing she doesn't want to be part of the party scene, is knowing what type of social scene she is interested in -- what clubs or activities would she be interested in? a capella, theater, dance, religious group, social action group, etc. Look to see if the schools she is interested have that type of club -- and then try to check into it to see if it seems like a group she would like to be with -- at most school sites you can usually find e-mail contacts for the student leaders of clubs -- I know my daughter found this type of contact very useful in getting information about the non-academic side of the schools.</p>
<p>Having a sense of belonging to a group of students who share some common interest can go a long way in helping a student find their non-party niche at a school.</p>