<p>My D would like to attend a small, (under 6,000), LAC in the northeast.D is interested inEnglish and langusges as a possible major. Her stats are: GPA 3.99W taking a rigorous course load, CR 720, M620 and W 780. SAT II's BIO 720 and USHistory 740.</p>
<p>D is applying to : Tufts (stretch)
Hamilton
Connecticut College
Lafayette
Bucknell
Bryn Mawr
Dickinson</p>
<p>D is a friendly but pretty quiet kid who wants a school where frats/sororities and drinking don't dominate the social life. She does not play any sports and her main EC has been 4 years of marching band.Socially she is a middle-of-the road kind of kid, though leaning more liberal than conservative.
What is worrying me (currently) is that with the exception of Bryn Mawr, most of the schools on her list do have strong Fraternitys and/or drinking seems to dominate the social scene.
Our search has also been limited geographically because D doesn't want to be more than @ 5 hours from home.
I've gotten suggestions from College Search & Selection but could use more help.<br>
Earlham College sounds like a good match but it's further away than she wants.</p>
<p>Earlham would be a really excellent choice (as would some of the other women's college.) I don't know anything in particular about the other schools, other than that they share common characteristics of hard-drinking schools: residential, rural, wealthy students, athletics and spectator sports (not Conn), coed, no religious base, fraternities - so it would not be surprising if drinking dominates the scene. You will find 20-30% abstainers on all of these campuses, and they do find other things to do, but they will not be the center of campus culture.</p>
<p>If she can visit, try to arrange for a Thursday night - it is the best time to know whether a weekend drinking culture extends into the week.</p>
<p>Good advice about Thursday nites.......many HS families don't seem aware that FRI classes at some schools are rare and highly not desirable. Some schools party from Thursday through Sunday. That a lot of partying.</p>
<p>Sarha, first congrats on your daughter's accomplishments, and welcome.
Is she a senior?
My daughter's stats were similar to hers, maybe a hair higher, but pretty close, she also had similar feelings about frats as a junior. Her first choice was a school with a hard partying rep, her second choice was one that was not nearly so known for drinking, with an almost negligible frat presence. She ended up at the hard partying place, and so far is very happy. </p>
<p>1) They do change as the year progresses, and criteria that seem very important become less of an issue, and other aspects of the school become more important 2) There's a lot of drinking at all colleges these days, the question is really more about Sororities for a girl, and the social life inside and outside of those 3) Visits are critical if you or she have a major question like this about the atmosphere, if she's a senior, she can still visit in the spring. 4) The smaller, the school, the larger these issues loom.
Where is Swat on her list? Granted it might be a reach, but not totally out of reach. I agree with Mini, what about other women's colleges, those generally have less drinking.</p>
<p>I'd like to thank everyone for such quick responses. Yes, my D is a senior and I am feeling the pressure .
I know visiting and showing interest is very important when applying to small LAC's and I'm afraid we won't have the time to visit any new schools. I wonder if schools like Wellseley and BC would think D wasn't a serious applicant if we didn't get to the campus before applying.</p>
<p>D may apply EDII to Tufts. She didn't get her act together quickly enough to apply ED.</p>
<p>Cangel, at what point did drinking/frat presence become less important for your D? Did the positives of her 1st choice school outweigh the negatives or did it become a non-issue for her?</p>
<p>Susan, thanks for all the suggestions. I 'm under the impression that Bucknell is dominated by fraternities and has a strong drinking culture. Did your friend find it to be otherwise?
We visited Goucher and while D liked it she said it felt "just like h.s.".
She isn't interested in Skidmore or Sarah Lawrence because she thought they sounded tooo artsy and she is pretty conventional. I'll have her look into the other schools you've suggested.</p>
<p>I grew up essentially on Dickinson's campus and actually looked at it as a solid match school last year. It's a good school in a nice town. Aesthetically, it's also excellent--the school puts in a lot of time to make sure they have an attractive campus. I know that they're also looking to raise their admission stats and thus their ranking. Your daughter, I think, is probably at least slightly above their middle 50 and so would have at least a decent shot.</p>
<p>My impression of the school academically and socially comes from general local familiarity, the small amount of research I did into it last year, personal knowledge of profs (many of my friends were faculty kids), and the thoughts of my friends who have taken classes or actually enrolled there. My general sense is that the academics are more rigorous than those who live and die by USNWR would have you believe. This is particularly true if you are very interested in languages, studying abroad, or anything else "international" in nature. Dickinson focuses a great deal on its language departments, study abroad programs, and similar things. The only thing that would really give me pause about the school, aside from the facts that I grew up exceptionally close by and found somewhere else that I loved, is that the social scene is absolutely dominated by Greek life. Drinking is very common. I worked with a Dickinson student over the summer and he became a social brother (I believe that's the correct term) so that he would be able to have an active social life.</p>
<p>I hope that was helpful. I've got class now, but if you have any more questions or need me to clarify anything, I'll be happy to help.</p>
<p>Sarha, my son attends the same college as Cangel's D. While it certainly has a reputation as a very social campus, my S has found a group of like-minded peers who are very academically oriented. Many of the kids on his hall are involved in one of the musical organizations on campus. I agree with Cangel that drinking is pervasive on college campuses -- I think it's more important to find a good academic/social fit in as many areas as possible, and then to trust that your daughter will find a group of kids with similar values. There are substance-free and non-smoking dorms at most schools that I've come across. Although, (editorial comment coming!) why they need substance-free dorms when these kids are almost all under age is beyond me. And given the heavy workload, I don't know how they could manage to imbibe and do well at these very challenging schools. I wonder how much of that is for show?</p>
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And given the heavy workload, I don't know how they could manage to imbibe and do well at these very challenging schools. I wonder how much of that is for show?
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<p>My suggestion is to look at the graduation rates for these difficult schools and then ask your question again. They are graduating and doing well in most cases.</p>
<p>P.S. I don't know what the sorority scene is like these days, but I pledged a sorority in my Junior year of college, and found it to be a good way to connect with other girls. I had transferred after freshman year, and many of my new friends were in this house. I've contacted alumni groups across North America, through three major cross continental moves, and have found it to be another way to meet people in a new town.</p>
<p>Sarha, as she was finalizing her list (she applied ED), and really facing the prospect that whichever school she chose, she might actually have to attend :), her priorities crystallized. A rural, small college town atmosphere, strong foreign language, and multiple study abroad opportunities won out over no Greeks. An overnight helped a lot.
The positives outweighed the negatives, as she remains staunchly anti-drinking, though not anti-Greek.
It is a matter of going from a list of desires (some of which may be mutually exclusive) to the reality of what is possible and what is truly important to her. I would emphasize that her final choice was twice the size of the next biggest school on her list, and I believe that may make a difference in how happy she is on campus - the actual number of kids not into the drinking scene.</p>
<p>At this point, if your daughter really likes Tufts, and it is financially doable, I hope she applied ED. If not, or if that falls through, she can add a couple of schools to her list, if she feels she needs to and visit as many of her acceptances as possible in the spring.</p>
<p>Some kids tolerate not being in the mainstream better than others, some may go to frat parties, never drink and have lots of fun. Others may be totally disgusted by what goes on around them. As I mentioned before, what the sorority situation is, may be more important to her than the frats. Bucknell may be large enough to have a traditional marching band, if it is, and she wants to pursue that, college matching bands are their own little social world, a readymade group of friends whao are usually a mix of drinkers and non-drinkers. Another very important point about Greeks for her to consider, as she decides among acceptances is when do they have rush. Here in the South, where social life is really Greek dominated, rush happens BEFORE classes start, and most kids come to school knowing which house they would prefer to join - a whole different world than the Greeks at the schools my daughter considered. The later rush occurs, the better.</p>
<p>Good luck to her, she has a good list, selectivity wise.</p>
<p>Not the students at my school. Not from the reports of alcohol illness treated at the campus hospitals, the other incidents clearly showing that the quantities and levels of drinking is HIGH. I don't think that my school is a bad as many but at some schools drinking is the entertainment every weekend. I was recently at a Big 10 school.......believe me they made my campus look tame. Parties are one thing.....stupid/sick drunk is another, it was everywhere.</p>
<p>Sarha, sorry to not be able to comment more about Bucknell. I was just saying that by the little bit you shared, that a girl I was advising last year had similar stats and her main EC was also marching band too and she ended up at Bucknell (she had a lot of waitlists including Bucknell's). I only spoke to her in early Sept. and she was very happy there but I don't know more specifics. </p>
<p>Drinking is on every campus. You have to find your niche. I guess in a bigger school, there are more niches. But even so, I think there are niches anywhere. You have to talk to current students and ask what the social life is on campus. Does it revolve around frats or drinking? Visit next spring if you have to and see for yourself on an overnight. There is drinking everywhere but you just have to find a campus culture where that is not the predominant acitivity or where not everything revolves around getting drunk. At many good schools, you will find that that is not the main thing. Kids may drink, some don't but there is lots going on from which to choose. </p>
<p>I have a kid at Brown who I truly believe never had a drink before she got there. Drinking and partying was not part of her HS life. I am sure she has been part of some social drinking at parties at her college, but her life is definitely not centered on this. She is far too busy with schoolwork, two sports teams and much else to make drinking a focus. Getting drunk is not her thing. But she still partakes in the social scene and various parties as one facet of her social life. I don't doubt that she has had some drinks but I highly doubt she has ever gotten drunk there because too much other stuff is important to her and she'd not have the time or inclination. She is having a GREAT time. Frats do not dominate the culture at her school but she has been to some frat parties. If you can find a school where there is plenty going on and kids are very good students who are motivated academically to achieve and very active in the extracurricular life on campus, you will find a suitable school where there will be some drinking and even some frats but where it need not dominate a particular's kid's life. </p>