<p>I don’t find that this is news. There has always been a shortage of “good” teaching jobs. I know that getting a public school teaching position where I live now and previous places is very competitive. The pay scale is very good, the facilities are good, the setting is not dangerous. On the other hand, to get a position at a low paying private school or inner city school is a lot easier. </p>
<p>There is a big balancing act in terms of taking out sizeable loans. Yes, in some situation, it is the best move to make. However, I have seen kids take out enormous loans when they had alternatives that were far less pricey, that would not have been a hug difference in school experience. I am not talking about going loan free to a local state or community college vs Harvard with loans, as an extreme example. I have seen kids from families that are really struggling financially take out loans to go to private schools such as XYZ University that have high tuitions, are not well known, do not give a high quality of campus life and do not prepare the student any better than a local or state college that costs far less.</p>
<p>I have a friend whose stepdaughter insisted on going to such a school, taking out huge loans to do so. She is now buried in debt, can’t find a job and has just become the next generation in her family cycle of debt problems. Had she gone to a state school, she would have had 100% of her expenses paid, and she had two states from which to make a choice. A very dear friend has a daughter who just graduated with a philosophy degree from an OOS college and is in a sickening amount of debt to add to the financial issues that the parents are having. I don’t see a lick of advantage in her having gone to school where she did over a local college or state school which would have cost a lot less.</p>
<p>I see a lot of kids who want to be teachers go to private schools that do not give a teaching certificate, end up teaching for very little money in private schools while trying to get the certificate to get into the public system where there is more pay, and are struggling with loans on top of that. Some of them did not know they wanted to teach until they were at college, and some also truly got the quality education they enjoyed for their money, but some of them did not.</p>
<p>berryberry- does your private school pay all the teachers the same based on experience or does your school offer incentive pay or merit raises that differ for each teacher?</p>
<p>Our private school pays a lot more than like schools in the area. The tuition is also higher. But it still does not not come close to the pay scales of the public schools. One problem we do have is that we lose teachers to the public schools because of the pay issue.</p>
<p>tom1944 - A few years ago, we moved to a system that is able to better reward teachers for the work they do (i.e. it includes a component of merit pay as well as other incentives). Prior to this we were on a straight salary scale based on yrs of experience which is the system all of the public districts in our area use.</p>
<p>I know it took some doing to get there, but it has helped in really rewarding those who do great work in and out of the classroom.</p>
<p>As I noted above, we are the highest paying private school in our area by far but for the most part, we still trail the publics by 25% - 30% especially in the lower and middle ranges. The one area where we actually are as good or better than the public pay is at the high end - as we have no cap whereas there is one on the public scales</p>
<p>Our teachers in New Haven, CT just got a contract like that…an excerpt:
"The four-year contract was ratified earlier this month in a sweeping 842-39 vote. The agreement goes into effect next year, and grants an average 3 percent annual raise for teachers. But it has gained particular attention for the framework it provides for the unfolding reform initiative.</p>
<p>The pact opens the door to inclusion of student performance in teacher evaluations, grants new flexibility to schools, establishes a peer mentoring program for low-performing teachers, and includes a framework for school-based bonuses. The agreement also provides a more streamlined process for removal of teachers deemed incompetent, establishing a 120-day improvement plan period that can result in a determination of incompetence.</p>
<p>The contract grants the district the ability to shut down a low-performing school and reconstitute it under new staff and leadership, possibly as a charter school.</p>
<p>The effort mirrors closely the education priorities outlined by President Barack Obama, including an expanded use of student achievement data, revamped teacher evaluation systems incorporating student achievement and a district ability to intervene in the lowest performing schools, Rose said."</p>
<p>We will see how this works out, but something had to be done.</p>
<p>I don’t like everything being tied to tests, and I know some very good teachers try very hard to “teach to the test” but have so-so results. Some great teachers my children had at Catholic grade school level, had a wonderful way of teaching and they tested well, but they can’t do what they would like to now in public schools because they literally have to be on a certain page in a book or get reprimanded. There are no easy answers. They miss the freedom of private school but not the money.
The contract allows the district to issue bonus payments for teachers based on student performance, as well as leadership. The bonuses won’t be given to individuals, but rather to groups and the entire staff of a particular school.</p>
<p>When D1 was in second grade, our teachers’ bonus was tied to students’ test scores. D1 spent most of time in school doing those practice tests for 3 months. They had no time to do anything outside of prescribed curriculum. It’s the main reason why we moved D1 out of public school system. At the current school they take ERB and we are only notified a week before hand to make sure they get a good night sleep, other than that it’s a non event.</p>
<p>I asked berryberry the question because I am not an opponent of merit pay for any job, in fact if I was an employer I would only want to pay an employee a commission or by piece work. It seems to me however that merit pay in the education field may be difficult to implement not only because of the teachers union but because there does not seem to be a consensus on what it should be based on. From the limited discussions I have had on this issue most private schools do not use merit pay either. I am interested in hearing about how merit pay is working when it is part of the compensation package.</p>
<p>“there does not seem to be a consensus on what it should be based on”</p>
<p>It would probably be based on rewarding teachers who don’t make waves. They could do this by issuing high grades, for example. It would also be based on ring-kissing, like it often is in the corporate world.</p>
<p>Isn’t merit pay the opposite of tenure - doesn’t tenure protect teachers from having to make everybody happy with high grades (one effect)?</p>
<p>The problem is that the type of person who has those kind of smarts, often chooses other professions - that pay more money or have more “prestige.” </p>
<p>Some schools are blessed with fab teachers, those kids take the AP exams and do well. However, many other schools don’t have such qualified teachers and those students don’t even bother to take the exams because they don’t they’ll pass.</p>
<p>The good news is that my son is a math major, and he has noticed that there are more strong math students considering education. We need those future teachers, hopefully they’ll find jobs upon graduation.
<<<<<<<<<<<<</p>
<p>Adding (again lol) to my own post.</p>
<p>Last night I had the pleasure of attending my kids’ former Catholic high school’s major fundraiser. Many of the teachers were in attendance. Yes, many could seek better paying jobs in public schools, but they choose to stay because they like teaching in a more controlled atmosphere. These teachers - some who aren’t even Catholic - love teaching there. They’ve told me, “I get to teach all these bright kids everyday. For the most part, they do their homework, and they study for tests At a public school, unless I would get to teach only honors/AP track kids, I wouldn’t get to teach these kinds of kids.” For them, it’s worth it to them in a non-financial way to teach these kids. Luckily, many of them have spouses that earn enough to make that choice possible.</p>
<p>I wish that this high school could pay these teachers what they’d get at a public school, so that none of them would ever have to leave to make more money. But, the problem is this…if the school raises the tuition to pay them more, the school would lose so many students that they wouldn’t need very many teachers (or it might have to close down completely and all jobs would be lost.) </p>
<p>Catholic high schools (and similar) have this delicate balance to maintain…make the tuition affordable to enough families (who often have 2 or more in high school at the same time) that enrollment stays consistant, but also keeps teachers from leaving to seek better paying jobs.</p>
<p>Because the school is a diocesan school, it follows a “pay schedule”. </p>
<p>However, since there isn’t a union, there isn’t really anything that would prevent the school/diocese to pay beyond the “schedule” to hire/keep certain teachers. There really isn’t any way to really know this - a teacher could be given a contract with this higher pay and the contract could have a confidentiality clause or something. We’d never know. Without a union, it can operate like a regular business.</p>
<p>I imagine that if “push came to shove” to keep or hire certain teachers for math or science, such “special arrangements” could happen.</p>
<p>Its based on a combination of hard and soft criteria in a number of areas. Some is determined as part of our ongoing review and mentoring process which has been in place much longer, others as part of an annual data gathering. There is nothing based on test scores, etc but it does include certain measurables but not in areas you would typically think of. To explain it fully would take pages here but it was developed jointly by administration, our Board and faculty.</p>
<p>Being a private school, we do not have a public teacher’s union to deal with</p>
<p>The private prep school where two of my boys went do have special merit awards for teachers, and endowed “chairs” as colleges do. Still the top pay does not come close to the top pay scales that the public schools have. However, the school does provide benefits such as housing, meals, perks that the public school does not. There is also a sense of close academic community there.</p>
<p>Many of the points made in Post #52 illustrate why public school teachers can’t be compared to Catholic school teachers–and part of the reason why public schools are in a bad way. CS can pick and choose students while PS take anybody and everybody. Those dedicated CS teachers enjoy teaching the kids who do their homework and study for tests. PS teachers would enjoy that too, but they teach all kids, even those who have no support system, who have special needs and may not even be able to speak English. Most Catholic schools–all private schools, really–turn those kids away because they can’t meet the needs of all students…Imagine what could be done if all students had parents who were actively involved in the educational process, if the kids all did their homework and studied for tests…Not interested in starting a huge debate, here. Just wanted to point out that public schools have a very difficult job…</p>
<p>Most Catholic schools–all private schools, really–turn those kids away because they can’t meet the needs of all students</p>
<p>We all get into trouble when we paint with too broad of a brush.
My oldest child attended private school from K- 12, when in our urban district, we were told several times by teachers and other staff that " she should look somewhere else".
Both my kids are twice gifted, very bright with learning differences and the district, especially at the time when my oldest was entering, does not address the needs of children who are two grades ( or more) above grade level, at the same time they might be two grades * below* grade level.
Instead students must be above or below in all subjects to have access to additional services.</p>
<p>Private schools on the other hand- ( some) were accommodating and flexible, and understood the developmental needs of children-and welcomed them- My younger daughter switched to public school in middle elementary, but if I had known what a struggle and heartache it was going to be to shepherd her through the system we would have stayed in private school. It ended up costing us thousands anyway, to pay for outside tutoring and testing when the district would not give her an IEP that was worth the paper it was printed on.</p>
<p>( oftentimes Catholic schools in our area, were the ones that took the " problem boys" who had been kicked out of their neighborhood school, but hadn’t yet made the rounds of the suburban schools- I don’t think attending a private or Catholic school guarentees that the students are going to be compliant and do their homework :rolleyes: )</p>
<p>Another thing to consider is that those who work for private/parochial schools would not be eligible for loan assistance given to public employees, something to consider if you or your child is carrying student loan debt.</p>
<p>I have always had problems recommending that students major in education if they can’t get a job. Lets face it, what do they do with an education major who can’t find a teaching job?</p>
<p>I have always suggested programs that provide a basic bachelors degree in a subject area other than education with either an integrated masters in education or going for a separate masters in education.</p>