<p>"LAWRENCE, Kan. - When Lilli Lackey started college, talk of a growing teacher shortage gave her confidence that a job would be waiting for her when she got out.</p>
<p>Now, six months after graduating, she considers herself lucky just to find work as a substitute.</p>
<p>Across the country, droves of people like Lackey are unable to find teaching jobs, in large part because the economy is forcing school systems to slash positions. The teacher shortage that many feared just a few years ago has turned into a teacher glut...."</p>
<p>Demographics also play a (small) role. If the HS bubble is hitting its senior peak last year/this year/next year, it will mean less teachers are needed…</p>
<p>This has been par for the course in Pennsylvania for a long time. We have a glut of teachers. The suburban school districts pay really well, the cities - not so much. It is not unusual for our school district to get hundreds of applications for each opening.
Teachers are needed in Philadelphia, Allentown and Reading but they don’t want to teach there. They will work as a Teacher Assistant or substitute for years before getting a teaching job.</p>
<p>It is also not need, but what the city wants to hire. Here in CT, I see many subs that can’t find work, some don’t seem very motivated, the idea of being a teacher wasn’t from a passion but just to get secure work, others, really want to teach and are thinking of moving to get better opportunites or commuting.
At my daughter’s high school, they need teachers, the AP teachers are overloaded, they have limited classes in certain areas, but they wont hire. I see that in many schools, it’s not the need, but the cost.</p>
<p>I also have talked to education grads that for reasons of their own (and sometimes understandable) they wont take jobs in certain urban areas, some will work in a Catholic school where pay is much lower or travel an hour to work part time as an part time teacher. These are choices, but something to consider when you are in school, what you want and what is available, is not always the same thing.</p>
<p>mom2collegekids—I respect your view on kids not having any loans upon graduation but I also think it is very unrealistic for most families if they expect to see their children attend college. I have four children, three are attending Ivys, one will graduate this year and two will graduate next year and my third was at a private university last year but is home this semester. All three of my kids will graduate with debt but what was the alternative? Should they not have attended college? Should they have attending a cheaper college? Or should they have attended a college that they would not have been challenged? I know as a parent that it will not be easy to pay off those loans but my first three kids will hopefully be high earners and in the mean time they can live at home if needed so they can pay those loans off quickly. Not one of my kids regret their decision to attend the universities they chose even with the loans they have needed to take. I might also mention that the majority of money they earn in the summer and winter breaks have contributed to the tuition at their schools. My daughter who is home right now is working and saving every penny so she can contribute to her college cost once she is ready to return to her school.</p>
<p>There is just no one way that will work for everyone and the choices that my kids had were not easy to turn down. They have made the best of their years at college and the opportunities that each of them have had by attending their respective schools have been amazing. I am so proud of them that they recognized the opportunity they had by attending these schools and soon they will all have graduated. My daughter is the only child I am concerned about. She is choosing a low paying profession and she will have more loans than my sons, but she will always be able to live here after she graduates (thats if she does not drive me crazy LOL)</p>
<p>My husband and I did our best to provide the best education that my kids wanted. Their dreams were our dreams and they were not going to turn down the opportunities they had at the schools they attended. We have no regrets.</p>
<p>^^ I understand agree with much of your post Momma.</p>
<p>Always remember, there are loans and then there are LOANS. Our kids knew choosing private schools would mean we could pay this much, they would have to pay that much, they would need to look for and apply for many scholarships AND they would likely have to take out some loans, but we agreed on an amount to not exceed.</p>
<p>I have one considering teaching - if a job would not be there upon graduation, I would expect that he still get some type of job and if necessary live home for a couple of years until either the loans get paid off or a better job comes about.</p>
<p>Agreed that often it is not that the teaching jobs are not there, but that students need to choose areas of need - often not the most desirable - teaching in the city, teaching at a Catholic school for less $$$, teaching math/science - whatever. Or relocating.</p>
<p>True abasket…I would say there should be a cap on what is a feasible amount of debt. One of my kids will be attending med school and that debt makes what he already has look like peanuts. Again, the question is should he not go to medical school? I trust that each of my older three are capable of doing well financially. Is it a risk? Yes, but I raised them to take risks…not in a stupid way but certainly when it comes to what they want. One of my kids just got hired for a job this summer that will pay him enough to pay off a quarter of what he owes and he will still have money in his pocket. It is sometimes a matter of weighing the situation and knowing the individual person.</p>
<p>Whether you find a teaching job also depends on what type of teaching job you are qualified for. Want to teach math or work with special ed kids? Chances are you can find something. Want to teach English or history – forget it.</p>
<p>I certainly agree with justamomof4, we have not had a teacher shortage in PA for a long, long time. I read in September that even the city schools have coverage this year. In my area, near Allentown there are no openings and many districts have a hiring freeze. Frankly though, I’m more worried about my English major son finding a job then my daughter who is a teacher. It’s the economy, stupid… (not addressing anyone here!)</p>
<p>There are some districts where the teachers earn substantially more than the average parent whose child they teach. </p>
<p>More than a few of those districts are in PA. If you are in an area like that, you don’t leave a teaching job very easily, and the openings don’t happen all that often.</p>
<p>My daughter is the only child I am concerned about. She is choosing a low paying profession and she will have more loans than my sons, but she will always be able to live here after she graduates (thats if she does not drive me crazy LOL)
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<p>Having significant students loans would be a problem for most who go into the teaching profession. They will have lowish salaries during those first 10 years when paying off their loans. A grad with student loans who can’t find a job, will find it impossible to begin repayment. My dear friend’s son graduated from Columbia in May with a degree in Engineering. He has yet to find a job. His student loan repayments are adding to his stress. Right now, he’s living at home, hoping to find a job in the area. He may have to relocate. </p>
<p>I don’t have a problem with someone taking smallish affordable student loans if they’re going into a profession that will start them at a decent income, and/or the parents can help with the payback - especially if there is a delay in finding a job. </p>
<p>However, many new grads won’t have the option of moving back home to save money to repay their loans because their jobs will be ELSEWHERE - perhaps in another state. Are you rather certain that your children will be able to get highish paying jobs in your home town. If so, that’s great. That’s not true for many.</p>
<p>For those who must seek jobs elsewhere, that means they will completely supporting themselves while paying back their loans during the time that their incomes will likely be their lowest.</p>
<p>Furthermore, a graduate may not feel comfortable living at home for several years after years of freedom. Few parents are going to let them have their girl/boyfriends spend the night at ‘rents’ home.</p>
<p>Your kids have gone ivy and that’s great. Their job prospects are better than most (but not for my friend’s son). For other students who are graduating from lesser pricey schools, if there was a less expensive option at a good school, that may have been the better choice in the long run. You say that it’s “very unreasonable” for “most families” to have their kids graduate debt free. That’s not true. Most families don’t have kids that have the stats to pursue educations at pricier schools, or they don’t “need” to go to those pricier schools. Many kids just have what it takes to do well at their local state school.</p>
<p>I don’t know if you had student loans yourself. We did, and they weren’t big either. But they were a huge drag for ten long years. My sister borrowed $60k for grad school; it was like a stone around her neck during repayment. She wishes she had gone to UCLA instead of USC because her debt would have been a fraction of that and the education would have been essentially equal.</p>
<p>Yes, I know that some kids MUST take out some student loans, otherwise they won’t be able to obtain a college education. I just don’t like this mentality of students grabbing these shiny golden carrots of huge (often unnecessary) loans, without any real consideration of what their payback situation will be - when less expensive and academically strong options are available. </p>
<p>I come from a large family. My parents couldn’t afford to pay for our college educations. We went to UCs and Cal States for undergrad. My H’s family went to pricey privates (except H who went Big 10) and had massive student loans. My H and my siblings “kick his siblings’ butts” when it comes to incomes and prestigious professions. I have a brother who has an Emmy award for his technology inventions (if I give too much info he could EASILY be ID’d thru google - including his pic holding his Emmy), he has been nominated for at least 3 additional Emmys, and he and my other bros hold about 100 patents (I was recently corrected when I thought it was less). My H’s siblings haven’t done anything spectacular, so what was the value of their pricey educations, when they could’ve gone to Purdue or IU for peanuts?</p>
<p>However, I certainly hope for the best for your kids I hope that their monthly repayments ($400, $600, or whatever) are repaid in a manner that they won’t feel any regret. :)</p>
<p>I think anyone who plans on getting into teaching needs to be flexible about where they will teach. There are certainly many parts of the country where there is a teaching glut. But there are others where the shortage pertains to many more disciplines than just math. I serve on the school board in a suburban/rural district, known for its (relatively) polite, compliant middle/upper-middle class students. We don’t pay our teachers particularly well, but when we get a job opening we are flooded with applications. My wife teaches in a nearby small. “inner city” district with a lot of ESL (or ELL as its now called) students and kids from broken, impoverished homes. Her district pays substantially more than surrounding districts but the number of qualified applicants for job openings rarely exceeds single digits. I have also heard that there are many districts in western and central new york where they have to scrounge for qualified applicants. No doubt this disparity between districts exists in many parts of the country.</p>
<p>Another observation from our local experience: it seems that the trend in secondary school hires these days is to prefer candidates who earned their undergraduate degree in a specific discipline – history, English, biology, chemistry – rather than in education. The last dozen our so hires in our district have included young teachers whose undergrad degrees were earned in specific subjects at highly selective schools such as Holy Cross, Vassar and Colgate, which was followed up with an MAT from a place like the College of Saint Rose, Siena or one of the SUNYs. I’m not sure that the private college pedigree necessarily translates into their being better teachers but that does seem to be the trend, at least here.</p>
<p>It might also be wise for those studying to be teachers to perhaps major in something that will give them other job possibilities, while also getting the credits to get their credential. An el-ed teacher doesn’t “have” to major in el-ed to become a teacher.</p>
<p>“And yet a couple of years ago Louisiana hired a bunch of teachers from the Phillipines.” </p>
<p>Yes but the teachers from the Phillipines were hired into low performing schools such as in the Recovery School District in New Orleans. As was said earlier, places that aren’t attractive to others.</p>
<p>Actually, I read recently where there’s a lawsuit now pending against the California recruiting firm who hired the teachers from the Phillipines.</p>
<p>Since a college degree from a reputable school doesn’t even guarantee you a * job* ,I don’t see why it would be a shock that a undergrad major wouldn’t guarantee you a job in your chosen field.</p>
<p>The “shock” is because Education majors were constantly being told via the media that teachers are “needed.” This is why I agree with the programs that get college students in the classrooms early in college – aside from the practical how to handle a classroom experience the students can see the workforce.</p>
<p>I’m another PA resident and agree we have no shortage of teachers. Even Philly (a relative works there) is not finding major shortages. </p>
<p>My kids are currently in private school – most teachers are fresh out of college or retired professionals in career #2. The positive for the young grads to move to private school is the opportunities to coach or oversee academic competitions. The negative is that it is certainly not a money maker. Our private school seems to expect these “new” teachers to only remain a few years & then move on.</p>
<p>oh the " media".
We believe them when we want to & we don’t when we don’t.
If students read more than the headlines, they would read that classrooms are getting larger, graduation rates are poor and online classrooms " are the wave of the future".</p>
<p>The private schools my daughters attended have teachers ( and directors) who stay for decades, even though the tuition at one of the schools is less than what a school district receives per student. </p>
<p>Our school district recently ( two years ago) agreed to a bump in salary and benefits- the kicker was, to retain those perks in their pension, teachers had to work under the contract for two years. Seattle then didn’t see even half of the retirements surrounding districts did, so younger teachers had to be laid off, but as the new contract is for only one year, I expect they will be hiring great many for the 2010-2011 year.</p>
<p>I think our private expecting the young teachers to leave has to do with the publics not just paying more but paying MUCH more (3x more) for less hours of work. The average public teacher salary in my county in 2007 was $77,600 – by district it ranges from 67-85K. This is pure dollars excluding the generous healthcare. It is easy to see why the young teachers want some experience and then to move on.</p>
<p>A few of the young women stay on in our private if they become “moms” and see the cost benefit of discounted tuition, but the men…In the 10 years we have been at the school the only young man who stayed moved into Administration.</p>
I hope that their monthly repayments ($400, $600, or whatever) are repaid in a manner that they won’t feel any regret. :)</p>