Benefits of an Undergrad Business degree

College Search & Selection
21

<p>
[QUOTE]
Mathematics, physics, biology and chemistry aren't liberal arts. They're sciences. Which would be competing against engineering majors for jobs. Engineering majors have very good job prospects. But we're talking about liberal arts and business.

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>. . .</p>

<p>liberal arts
pl.n.
Academic disciplines, such as languages, literature, history, philosophy, mathematics, and science, that provide information of general cultural concern: “The term ‘liberal arts’ connotes a certain elevation above utilitarian concerns. Yet liberal education is intensely useful” (George F. Will).</p>

22

<p>Haw, someone can use <a href="http://www.dictionary.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.dictionary.com&lt;/a> But I can too, what will happen?</p>

<p>Bachelor of Arts  </p>

<ol>
<li>a bachelor's degree in the liberal arts, usually awarded for studies in the social sciences or humanities.<br></li>
<li>a person having this degree. Abbreviation: A.B., B.A.<br></li>
</ol>

<p>[Origin: 1570–80] </p>

<p>Bachelor of Science  </p>

<ol>
<li>a bachelor's degree, usually awarded for studies in natural science, pure science, or technology.<br></li>
<li>a person having this degree. Abbreviation: B.S., B.Sc., S.B., Sc.B.<br></li>
</ol>

<p>[Origin: 1850–55, American] </p>

<p>Oh no. Looks like we have a contradiction. No mention of a BS being awarded to someone who studied a liberal art. And no mention of a BA being awarded to someone who studied a science.</p>

<p>Could it be because no one gets a Bachelor of Science for studying a liberal art because it's art, not science?</p>

<p>(Also notice the vast difference in origin times. The history of education is pretty interesting.)</p>

23

<p>The degree awarded doesn't matter. Find a definition of 'liberal arts' that does not list biology, math, physics, etc... as liberal arts. Chances are you won't find one.</p>

24

<p>
[quote]
The degree awarded doesn't matter. Find a definition of 'liberal arts' that does not list biology, math, physics, etc... as liberal arts. Chances are you won't find one.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Chances are you'd be wrong. As usual.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/liberal%20arts%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/liberal%20arts&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Main Entry: liberal arts
Function: noun plural
1 : the medieval studies comprising the trivium and quadrivium
2 : the studies (as language, philosophy, history, literature, abstract science) in a college or university intended to provide chiefly general knowledge and to develop the general intellectual capacities (as reason and judgment) as opposed to professional or vocational skills</p>

<p>Or would you prefer the Oxford dictionary instead of Webster's?</p>

<p><a href="http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/liberalarts?view=uk%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/liberalarts?view=uk&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>liberal arts</p>

<p>• plural noun chiefly N. Amer. arts subjects such as literature and history, as distinct from science and technology.</p>

<p>Here's a hint. When your dictionary referred to "science" it meant social sciences. And mathematics were included because they were a part of the original Seven Liberal Arts per medieval history.</p>

<p>Next time, use a dictionary that exists for a purpose other than selling advertising space.</p>

25

<p>From the Oxford american dictionary:</p>

<p>studies in the humanites, mathematics, and the social and natural sciences as distinct from professional or technical subjects</p>

<p>They would have specified social science, if that's what they had meant by science</p>

26

<p>Actually, some schools, especially the Ivies and the top LACs still give out BAs in physics, chemistry and biology.</p>

27

<p>Yes, it does.</p>

<p>Chemistry for example, is not abstract in any way. Neither are physics and biology. What defines scientific theories is that they can be tested and verified. Not only thought about abstractly.</p>

<p>Which explains why Oxford defines it as it does.</p>

<p>Sorry, but you're wrong. Better luck next time.</p>

<p>It's Funny that I even had to explain this. I mean it's liberal arts not liberal sciences.</p>

28

<p>Physics is not abstract?!</p>

<p>"The term liberal arts has come to mean studies that are intended to provide general knowledge and intellectual skills, rather than more specialized occupational or professional skills."</p>

<p>Which would include subjects such as biology and chem.</p>

29

<p>
[quote]
Actually, some schools, especially the Ivies and the top LACs still give out BAs in physics, chemistry and biology.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Whats your source on this?</p>

<p>
[quote]
Physics is not abstract?!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>No, its not. Like any hard science it consists only of theories that can be tested and verified. Its a common layman remark that physics is just abstract pondering similiar to philisophy. But physics is all about trying to explain discernible phenomena. Not trying to explain things like "Why are we here?"</p>

<p>See the Brittanica entry on it.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9375204%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9375204&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

30

<p>A Wikipedia article (which obviously is not sufficient for a source by any means, as any academic will tell you) as well as the department websites of several schools. Harvard and Williams for example, awards A.B.s only. The only B.S. degrees offered by Harvard are those in engineering. But I think this is getting off topic; I don't think this is what the OP was hoping for. I think we should get back to the original topic regarding the pros and cons of the undergrad business degree.</p>

31

<p>Wow, to the liberal arts discussion: WHAT DOES IT MATTER! We're talking about business, so get back on topic.</p>

<p>The benefit of an undergrad business degree is that it allows someone who is interested in business to take classes in it and learn some practical skills. If you believe history is the most interesting thing in the world, go major in it!</p>

<p>For the most part, if the students are from equally prestigious colleges, a business degree will have a stronger pull, as it shows a student is serious about it and will begin at a higher level than the average art history major. You can bring up as many Ivy League "I majored in blah, and I can get a job in anything I want" stories as you like, but the fact is, only a select few schools have the luxury of being at that level. Even then, think about the people going to Harvard who aren't the very top non-business people, do you think they'll be getting great business jobs right out of college? Besides the few who go into I-banking and such, just having a business degree will help you in the job search.</p>

32

<p>
[quote]
And no mention of a BA being awarded to someone who studied a science.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>
[quote]
Actually, some schools, especially the Ivies and the top LACs still give out BAs in physics, chemistry and biology. </p>

<p>Whats your source on this?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This is a well established fact that can be easily checked by just noodling around the various college websites. </p>

<p>As WindCloudUltra said, Harvard does not give out B.S. degrees in physics at all. The only B.S (actually called an SB at Harvard) given out at Harvard is for engineering.</p>

<p>"Almost all undergraduates [at Harvard] pursue an A.B. degree (only the engineering and applied sciences concentration offers an S.B. degree program)."</p>

<p><a href="http://www.petersons.com/UGChannel/code/IDD.asp?orderLineNum=682109-1&reprjid=12&inunId=6573&typeVC=InstVc&sponsor=1%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.petersons.com/UGChannel/code/IDD.asp?orderLineNum=682109-1&reprjid=12&inunId=6573&typeVC=InstVc&sponsor=1&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://www.commencement.harvard.edu/background/degree_notes.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.commencement.harvard.edu/background/degree_notes.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Here's a reference that Harvard makes to its A.B./A.M. program in physics. That must mean that Harvard is giving out A.B. degrees in physics.</p>

<p>"AB-AM Degree
Candidates for the AB-AM degree in physics must meet both the academic and course requirements for the honors AB degree in physics and the AM degree. A given course can be counted for only one of the two degrees, i.e., one course cannot meet the requirement for the AB degree and then be counted again for the AM degree. Any undergraduate who wishes to apply for this degree must file an application for the graduate program in physics just as any other student files for graduate work at Harvard. This application should include two letters of recommendation. The GRE is not required. Only students with advanced standing are eligible to apply for this four-year program. Undergraduates taking graduate courses in their third year may bracket those which they wish to apply on their graduate degree.</p>

<p>Master of Arts (AM)
The AM degree is frequently taken by students who continue on for the PhD degree. For those who do not attain the doctorate, the AM degree attests to the completion of a full year's study beyond the bachelor's degree."</p>

<p><a href="http://www.gsas.harvard.edu/programs/degree/physics.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.gsas.harvard.edu/programs/degree/physics.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>In fact, I defy you to find one single person who actually has an S.B. in physics from Harvard. No, not in applied physics, but in just physics. You can't do it. That's because Harvard does not give out such a degree. It gives out the A.B. in physics. The same thing can be said for chemistry and biology - only the A.B is given out. </p>

<p>As another example, take Princeton. Princeton states quite clearly that you can get only the A.B. degree in physics, chemistry, or biology. Princeton doesn't have the BS (or SB) degree. Princeton offers the BSE degree, but that's only for engineers. Consider the following quote:</p>

<p>"Programs of study in the humanities, *the natural sciences *, and the social sciences lead to the degree of bachelor of arts."</p>

<p><a href="http://www.princeton.edu/pr/catalog/ua/06/013.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.princeton.edu/pr/catalog/ua/06/013.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Or, consider Berkeley. Notice how the Berkeley physics department makes numerous references to the physics A.B. degree, but does not mention any B.S. or S.B. degree. That' because Berkeley physics only gives out an A.B. degree.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.physics.berkeley.edu/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=180&Itemid=422%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.physics.berkeley.edu/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=180&Itemid=422&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>You can do the same check for biology at Berkeley. Berkeley chemistry actually grants both A.B. and B.S. degrees. </p>

<p><a href="http://chemistry.berkeley.edu/ugrad_info/pros_ugrad/degree_choice.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://chemistry.berkeley.edu/ugrad_info/pros_ugrad/degree_choice.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>But the point is, there are plenty of schools that give out B.A/A.B. degrees to the natural sciences. There is nothing particularly unusual about that.</p>

33

<p>I agree with BusinessGuy on several points. One being that only a few schools have the luxury of being at the level of an ivy league, in that its graduates can say "Well I majored in Art History, but because of the name on my degree, I have great job prospects." But the thing is, these are some of the most heavily recruited schools at the major Wall Street firms (and consulting firms and whatever else). Additionally, I'd say that to some extent, if you're completing an u-grad business program, the same rules apply. Of course if you're going to Wharton and succeeding with the curve (or going to Sloan or even going to Stern) you're going to be super impressive to recruiters HOWEVER there comes a point where it may have been more beneficial to skip a lesser recruited u-grad buis. school to go to a more recruited general program.</p>

<p>Like the OP, my family and family friends are all on Wall Street and not a single one completed an u-grad business program. They all majored in whatever their hearts fancied -- ranging from psych, to history to chemistry to engineering -- took quantitative courses, and got jobs after college. They went to the best possible schools they could, and they say that this is what helped them the most. Obviously these people can't turn around and tell me how their lives and hiring processes would've been different had they taken the ugrad business route, but they all seem to be happy enough the way they did it. And maybe because it was their paths, they like to look for students like themselves to hire. A u-grad business degree is not the most impressive thing to them -- a top GPA at a top college is. I've been told time and time again that in your first few weeks at your job, you'll be trained to complete daily tasks the way they want you to -- naturally, taking the "smartest" or most talented students makes that process easier. It also helps if that students can bring something "random" that they studied to the table. </p>

<p>Getting a u-grad business degree was not the plan for me. I felt the curriculum was too restrictive, and to this day, I don't see the benefits of its form of education (and I believe that there are plenty) outweighing that. I will say though that these TOP u-grad business programs do have incredible connections and resources that do serve as a really nice draw, but if you're at a top college and look hard enough, you should find some too.</p>

34

<p>
[quote]
The bulk of liberal arts majors do not major in a science. History, Poli sci, psych, English, languages are all more popular than math and physics.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Math is not a science either. Anyways, as the poster above said, liberal arts consist of the humanities, social sciences and physical sciences.</p>

35

<p>For one, Wall St is not the goal of many people in the US colleges. The lifestyle and demands are not for most people. And you have to live in New York. That would be a deal breaker for me.</p>

36

<p>The OP clearly doesn't enjoy studying business as much as other things, so discussion over, an undergrad business degree isn't for him. However, many people would much rather study business undergrad than anything else. The live it and love it. For them, Wharton is heaven.</p>

<p>On the practical side, an undergrad degree from one of the few schools with a great program might save you from having to get an MBA. MBAs can be a pain if you want a top one. You have to work four or five years after undergrad at an impressive job moving quickly and doing high quality work to get the needed recs. And that's if you have the GMAT score and GPA. An undergrad business degree from Wharton, MIT, Hass and a few others might put you on the track you want without an MBA. Or you can combine it with a one year masters in economics or even an undergrad minor in engineering to put youin a position to do lots.</p>

37

<p>going to a school like wharton for undergrad will put you on the fastest track ever. however, you can graduate with a degree in anything so long as you have the basic econ and math. once you get out into the real world, if you perform and earn your company money that means more than a diploma from any school. i think going to a top undergrad business school/program will just land you a slightly better job after college and may get you a bit more cash, but wont mean anything after a few years working (except for connections you get going to an ivy).</p>

38

<p>dwincho, if math isnt a science, why can i get a BS in it?</p>

39

<p>Some Princeton numbers. About 16% get jobs in financial companies but that means about 5/6ths don't and many of them are still unemployed at graduation. You have to ask, are you that good to be in the top 1/6th of Princeton grads?</p>

<p><a href="http://web.princeton.edu/sites/career/data/surveys/CareerSurveyReport2006.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://web.princeton.edu/sites/career/data/surveys/CareerSurveyReport2006.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

40

<p>barrons, you have princeton grads working in more than financial companies. some go to grad school for masters, mba, phd, medicine, law, etc. they also get jobs in other fields. there are also more jobs than financial companies. there is management consulting and you can work in many industries with a sceince or engineering major.</p>