benefits of boarding school for mathletes

Prep School Admissions Prep School Parents
1

I am trying to understand why almost every year students from few boarding schools are disproportionately represented among USAMO winners and IMO team. Is it mostly a function of top math students choosing to apply to boarding schools with strong math reputations or is there something about the boarding school education and environment like their curriculum, math club, help and guidance of exceptional math teachers like Zumin Feng, etc. that further facilitate the growth of these elite mathletes? What are the distinguishing marks of math education at boarding schools like Exeter and Andover?

My son will be attending a private day school in our area from this fall, starting in 5th grade. This school is strong in academics. For example, the average SAT and ACT scores of their students as reported on niche seem comparable to the scores of students at Exeter and Andover. However, I have recently discovered that the math curriculum at this school may not best support students like my son who are interested in pursuing math competitions. For example, placing into higher math classes is not allowed during middle school grades with exception of honor classes in 7th and 8th grade, and algebra is not offered until 8th grade. Parents were informed that advanced math students are accommodated through enrichment, etc. but I am not entirely convinced whether this would be enough.

I am thankful that my son has a chance to attend this private school. However, I am beginning to wonder whether boarding schools like Exeter and Andover might be a better fit for my son for his high school years – assuming he would continue to enjoy learning math at an accelerated pace and participate in math competitions. At this point, I am not really concerned about my son’s qualifying for USAMO and such; I just do not want my son to be bored in his math classes.

Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thx!

2

I think the answer is “the function of top math students choosing to apply to boarding schools (or to competitive schools like TJHS/Stuy/etc)” not of “the boarding school education.”

You are asking two separate questions. There is the issue of flexible math curriculum within a school allowing or not allowing acceleration. The other issue is the extracurricular activities such as mathclub.

You can ask the current school and other potential high schools about math curricular pathways. At my DS’s school, after a placement test for 6th-grade math, the teacher informed me DS’s math pathway up to 12th grade. I was rather shocked then, but the 6th-grade math placement will decide 12th-grade math class. I am against prevailing math curricular acceleration. If your DS can handle it, completing Algebra 1 and Geometry by 8th/9th grade so that he can start with Algebra II in 9th or 10th (followed by PreCalc in 10th/11th) should be enough acceleration for anyone. This was a pretty common pathway in our local charter school. If this path baffles your day school, then it may not be the right school for your DS.

Math competitions cannot be included within regular math curriculum. If your DS enjoys math competitions, you can research regional or state math circles and other online programs. It is unlikely that his needs will be met within a particular school. If he goes to a middle/high school where the mathclub is so active and competitive that he does not get selected for the school team (of 4 members from 6th-8th graders) then he won’t be able to participate in the MathCounts competition. If he goes to a school with no mathclub, then his school will not participate in the MathCounts competition. So joining a regional or state math circle can be more productive than choosing a particular middle/high school. There are plenty of competitions. PurpleComet, state university competitions, etc.

Raising a mathlete is like raising an athlete (or a musician). You will have to do research to find a good team (a good orchestra) and good coaches that fit your child. Only you and your child can determine the fit.
Enjoy your journey!

3

Competition math is very different from curricular math. Unless you can also accelerate that classes the math will be used in (sciences mostly), curricular math should only be accelerated so far. It’s not particularly helpful for a student to take Calculus, if they don’t have to opportunity to use it - it’s much harder to understand and apply what they’re learning. If your son is able to take Algebra 1 in 8th grade, that should be sufficient - remember also that he will be taking the PSAT in Junior year, and then the SAT. If he accelerates significantly, and isn’t using those “lower level” math skills on a regular basis, it could impact his SAT scores. You have to look at the big picture.

My daughter attends a magnet school that does accelerate - math in middle school, and then science in HS for select students. Among her class (sophomores), there are 10 students who took AB calculus, and were in honors chemistry or AP chemistry ( 4 of the 10). The juniors understood the material a bit better because they were applying similar concepts in Physics. Even though the Physics class is algebra based, the Calc teacher was able to explain how calculus is better suited to those calculations. The sophomores are also taking engineering classes, so the advantage wasn’t as significant as it might have been. They all said the PSAT math was on concepts a year or more removed, so they should have brushed up - thankfully they have that chance this summer before the PSAT counts toward National Merit. DD is on the math team, and she says while math team helps in class, not so much the other way around, because on math team you have to think on your feet, and being quick is as important as knowing the “curriculum.” Have your son build a strong foundation - don’t rush through the curriculum.

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Thank you for your helpful responses. Two clarifications.

RE math competition preparation, I believe it is largely up to the student. That is how it was explained to me. Still, when I notice that certain boarding schools (esp. Exeter) does considerably and consistently better than well-known magnet or specialized schools like Stuy/TJHS that are larger, I couldn’t help but wonder about the underlying reasons. In addition to self-selection, I am inclined to believe there might be some other factors that are enabling these top math students to advance from high AIME level (?) at the time of enrollment to USA(J)MO qualification and even IMO level sometime later. Could it be because of a math coach like Zumin Feng or the peer group that encourage and push one another? It is hard to guess from outside; I was hoping to get some first-hand accounts. Interestingly, I have recently read that all six of South Korea’s IMO team that won 2017 IMO in Rio attend the same high school: Seoul Science Magnet School. Again, I wondered about the reasons for this.

RE my kid, I think he would do just fine at the above-mentioned school during his middle school years in spite of the math curriculum that seems inflexible. In the unlikely event that my son excels in math competitions, I want to consider boarding schools for his high school years. What is confusing is that there were and are some very accomplished math students at this school. Two mathcounts national winners have attended this school, and few upper school students seem to qualify for USAMO quite regularly. This year two students will be attending MOP. So clearly the seemingly inflexible math curriculum has not impeded these students. Still, when I looked at the description of math classes, I became concerned that my son would not be challenged. I wish I can get in touch with parents of these students as to how their kids have handled the inflexible school math curriculum. It was hard to get this sort of info in my email exchanges with math teachers at this school.

5

Thank you very much for your helpful comments. Two clarifications below.

RE math competition, it has been explained to me that the prep is largely up to the student. Still, when I see that boarding schools like Exeter consistently outperforming larger schools like Stuy or Thomas Jefferson, I could not help but wonder about their secrets. In addition to self-selection, I suspect there might be other factors specific to Exeter and other boarding schools that are enabling their top math students to become the USA(J)MO winners and even join USA IMO team. Could their success be attributed to someone like Zuming Feng or extremely strong peer group that encourage and push one another? Perhaps… in some ways… It is really hard to know from outside. I was hoping to get some firsthand accounts. I had a similar question when I recently read that last year’s Korean IMO team that won in Rio had all six students come from the same high school: Seoul Science High School (a magnet school for gifted STEM kids).

RE my kid, I am completely fine with him attending the above mentioned school for his middle school years in spite of the inflexible math curriculum. I am just beginning to investigate boarding schools for his high school years in case my son somehow manages to do quite well in math competitions and wants to pursue USA(J)MO journey. I know it is too early and probably unlikely, but I just operate like this.

Thank you again for your responses. Looking forward to receiving some more, particularly if you have first-hand experience or knowledge of boarding schools like Exeter and Andover.

6

I really like your question.
Depending on what is available in your area, I would encourage you to pursue schools with a MUCH more flexible math offering. At my son’s current school, they had a 6th grader take the one of the AP Physics exams and score a 5. Our school is k-12, so he would walk across campus and take math in the high school.

With that said, what is Algebra to one school is not the same at another. Most schools are taking the Maths approach, so you really can’t compare without seeing a syllabus. My 7th grader is took Pre-Algebra and the teacher had the students doing Trig Functions and Coding after Spring Break.

We toured Exeter last thanksgiving. The tour guide was a Math Wiz - 99% SSAT. As you may know, they use problem sets. He described it as both freeing and unsettling because the teacher left their progress up to them.

Like you, I’d like to hear from one of the Math International competition parents.

7

This is such a tough question to answer because no one on here is going to know your kid. His ability, potential, interest, motivation, etc. Also, it’s tough as a theoretic question, because parents of competition math kids generally only know their own kids very well plus maybe a limited number of their kids’ fellow math travelers encountered along the way. Teachers have a lot of experience with regular kids of course, but typically in the early years have very little exposure or appreciation for kids who ultimately do go on to things like USAMO winner or IMO Gold…

So, just a few thoughts from a parent of a moderately talented kid who will never be a USAMO winner but has had some more modest successes, based on our limited experiences. Any curricular math is going to be irrelevant for competition. Do it or don’t do it (my own kid never went to math class from the middle of 2nd grade through the end of 5th and I don’t think it made one bit of difference - all year end state required exams were taken with perfect scores on each), but I don’t think it matters a bit ultimately. Kids go at all different speeds. Teachers will say you need to go rigorously through classes, and not go too fast, but this is very subjective and kid dependent. What is fast for one kid is interminably slow for another, and you always need to be attuned to keeping a kid interested but not overwhelmed. As an extreme example, I remember reading somewhere about Terence Tao’s crediting his physician dad with working with him as a young kid and emphasizing the need to go slow and absorb basics. Well, he couldn’t have gone too slow as Tao got a 760 on the SATM at 9 years old, which shows some decent mastery of basic math, but competed IMO two years later, ultimately winning his first Gold at 12. That’s quite a jump in 3 years!

If we could do it all over again based on what we know now (the original reason for skipping out of math class was that it was a waste of time, as the kid was exploring algebra and more on their own at 7 years old, unbeknownst to us), I’d say do the basics through AoPS right away: Algebra A and B. Intro Geometry is also a fantastic course, much better than any you will find at any school (except maybe Stanford OHS). To be even in the game, you really need to know the material covered by the basic courses by 6th grade or so imo. Then, just take it easy and see where the kid’s interest takes him. AMC8 and AMC10 competitions are very common tests that he can start taking next year - certainly the 8. Some kids like the speed contests like MATHCOUNTS. If your son is very good in math, perhaps talk with the school into allowing him more freedom in his regular classes. Standard drill and kill homework can be a waste of time for some kids, as rules are absorbed by some much more easily than others. You’ll only know as you progress down this path.

If you post your geographic area, some parents might be able to point you to specific resources that they are familiar with. Math circles can be great fun, sometimes there are state- or county-based teams that your school might not know about or be involved in. Some parents opt for Stanford OHS courses for advanced elementary kids who are ready for more rigorous study, because absolutely no regular school is going to be super rigorous no matter what they tell you.

Last, about Exeter, its success has nothing to do with the curriculum. More than any other school, Exeter recruits specifically for the top talent. Kids are found at MOP Blue sometimes (which means <9th graders who have already done quite well on USAMO) and if necessary standard application deadlines and procedures are ignored. It’s symbiotic as well. Zumin Feng is very well known of course, and many kids look to Exeter specifically to work with him, so the school gets a hugely disproportionate share of the most promising competition kids. It’s a small world anyway, and many kids meet the adult mentors like Feng, Paul Zeiss, Sam Vandervelde, Po Shen Lo, Andreescu, etc. at summer camps, math circle talks, etc. Mine has spoken with them all and our kid is just a very modest talent in this world.

Getting back to Exeter, many “regular” kids report mixed results from their problem centered approach, with many saying it is confusing and poorly presented. It’s just anecdotal, but my feeling is that the more standard approach at Andover, say, works “better” for the majority of smart kids who are not going to be diving in headfirst into competition. And while top boarding schools of course will have many smart kids, they are looking for all sorts of other attributes in their students, so math classes at places like TJ or NCSSM or even Saratoga High School (public in CA) can allow much more intensity, as the average ability and motivation to study STEM at these schools will be higher than at boarding schools.

Most of all, just have fun! Some kids take to the competition stuff and some don’t. It doesn’t mean you will never be good at math if you are not good at competitions. Kids also shouldn’t be discouraged by failures, and most aren’t, at least those who stick with it (I guess that’s by definition, lol). How many tennis kids really think they can be the next Federer? Doesn’t mean they stop trying. But, like athletics, math competitions are all out in the open, so it takes a certain type of young person to deal with the inevitable failures.

Anyway, hope that helps. OP, feel free to PM with your geographic location and school and if I know anything specific that I can offer I will!

8

Math competitions are generally focused on more abstract and pure math, which high schools don’t teach (with the exception of geometry) and few high school math teachers are equipped to teach. Besides innate talent and intense interest of a student, focused training with experienced teachers is important in winning math competitions. That’s why very few schools excel in these competitions.

9

Competition math is a very different way of thinking about math compared to classroom math. That being said one needs a good foundation. The kids I know who have done well in national competitions had a good knowledge of Algebra and Geometry in middle school. This doesn’t have to be formal classroom instruction but they do have to know it.

The kids who are excelling at the national/international level in competitions while at BS are spending 40+ hours a week doing math practice problems. They could do this other places but chose BS for certain reasons. They need a place where they can have guidance on this path. It can be a math team with a coach at school who provides guidance and lots of practice or private coaches and AOPS classes. Or some combination. There are many more HS competitions than MS.

Some of the Exeter students are known to the coach prior to attending. He runs a 2 week summer camp and weekend classes during the school year in the Boston area. Exeter hosts a MS math competition that has students from across the country and even from China (some combine it with BS tours).

Andover and Exeter each send a bus with 2 teams to ARML while most other teams are regional (Eastern Mass, Western Mass, Connecticut).

10

Once again, I really appreciate everyone’s input. Your real stories with your own kids as well as your knowledge of the math education and culture at Exeter and Andover have been very helpful. I wanted to PM some of you, but I still cannot figure out how to do it. :frowning: So I am sharing more info about my son below.

My son will be attending Lakeside School in Seattle from this fall. While my son is very much looking forward to going there, I recently discovered that their math curriculum may not be all that friendly to advanced math students. But as someone suggested, the classes may go deeper than what may appear in the course catalog. So, I will just have to wait and see.

What I find interesting and a bit confusing is that some students from Lakeside have done very well at math competitions. Two mathcounts national winners have attended, and few upper school students seem to qualify for USA(J)MO quite regularly. This year, two students are attending MOP, and one of them is a USAMO winner.

One would expect that the math curriculum would be broad and flexible to accomodate these mathletes. In all fairness, there are more advanced classes in upper school like linear algebra, but during middle school years, the math path seems to be pretty much set for everyone with exception of honors classes in 7th and 8th.

I suppose I have rather ample time to investigate the strengths and limitations of the math education at different schools. I think I will need to be more proactive in contacting schools directly; perhaps, I will email Zuming Feng himself at Exeter.

Still, please continue to share your experience and suggestions. I would be grateful!

11

This is no problem. Lakeside is awesome, @honeyharasho. And there are plenty of talented kids in that general area (Interlake High School is also very strong). I’m not first-hand familiar with Lakeside and Seattle, but I know that many consider it a mini-Harker as far as STEM goes. Forget about Exeter, unless your son is MOP Blue; you’ll be able to find all the resources you need in Seattle. There are math circles, and even an AoPS brick and mortar academy in Bellevue.

Start AoPS Algebra A now, go to class at Lakeside in the regular 5th grade class (which looks impressive but not tracked, unfortunately), then take AoPS Algebra B or Introduction to Number Theory. (AoPS geometry would be too much work this year on top of regular classes imo.)

Join the math club at Lakeside and make friends with the USAMO kids and ask how they did it. Meanwhile, take the AMC8 in November, apply to MathPath for the summer so long as your boy will be 11 by then, and then at the end of 5th grade sit back and figure out if it’s been a fun trip so far. Give it a solid year of work, and then assess. You’ll know so much more then! Anyway, that’s what I would do if we could do it all over again…

Don’t worry about the curriculum. If it turns out your son is exceptional, well, rules are made to be broken. Sincerest best of luck!

12

Thank you so much SatchelSF. I truly appreciate your contributions, which I have found to be both insightful and actionable. Indeed, my son is now doing AoPS. He has studied prealgebra 1 on his own but is taking online classes for prealgebra II and Algebra A this summer. So far so good. All the best to you as well!

13

I agree with SatchelSF.

I never signed up DS2 for AoPS classes (DS1 did Art of Problem solving 1 class), but I did buy the Prealgebra book when it first came out for DS2 and spent a summer having him do every problem in the book.
That really strengthened his math foundation and set him on a solid path.

Incidentally, I think middle school competition math is the best preparation for SAT/PSAT math section.
Both kids did very well on SAT math test during middle school although did not so great in verbal sections. :slight_smile: They took SAT for Talent Search programs (CTY/WATS) and never had to prep for SAT/ACT math tests since then.

Good luck!

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Totally agree about competition being outstanding prep, and really all any kid needs.

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@SatchelSF @payn4ward - yes - both middle school math competitions and SAT/PSAT math are based on Algebra 1 & 2 and Geometry.