My D was given a full tuition scholarship at a school that wasn’t her fist, second or even third choice. Other than the money, I feel the opportunities that will be available to her at this school versus what she will encounter at her reach schools may be tremendous and should not be overlooked. To me, if a school is willing to invest several hundred thousand dollars in her education, they will have a vested interest in her success. I must admit I feel I am completely in the minority on CC as it seems that many parents are overly concerned with “fit”. Can anyone really say a college is or isn’t for them after a 1 or 2 day visit? Thoughts??!
I think students are a lot more perceptive than parents believe they are, especially with intangibles. We visited about 20 colleges with my son and he immediately identified ones he would not want to attend. They were very much about fit. His first impressions were confirmed by older students from his HS who attend those universities, and even some of his relatives who are active or recently former students. As far as opportunities, that would be best discussed when you make your decision matrix and worth an additional visit to the school where you can meet with faculty and/or program advisers.
There is something to be said for being wanted. My kids picked schools where they felt wanted and included. And getting money didn’t hurt. My daughter has done that when picking sports teams too. She could have gone with a more competitive team, but chose one where her friends played, where the coach was nice, and where she actually got playing time. Sure, the other team won more and it’s players may have gotten better offers from college (but that’s debatable), but there was a high cost to those wins, and not only to my pocket. She enjoyed her team, and I’m not sure she would have had as good of an experience on the other team. Because of the extra cost, I would not have been able to afford as many extras, including extra tournaments so would she really have been seen by more coach and recruiters?
I bet your daughter could find something to like about the school.
Hopefully you have had “The money talk” with your student about what you can afford/are willing to pay for her education, and how merit awards impact those numbers. We gave our D an amount, and anything above that she would need money from other sources, such as merit awards, grants, etc. She made her application list accordingly.
“Fit” is not just an internet buzzword. It’s about the overall appeal of a school, covering everything from dorm life to class size, not unlike when you looked at elementary schools for your kid and knew where she would do well vs. flounder.Our D made her list of college based on what she saw herself doing in college and what they had to offer, and our visits are why some that looked “good on paper” never even got an application. Her final choice was NOT the cheapest, but is still within our financial parameters. It IS, however, the best fit, and the more we learn about it, the surer we all are.
You can force your child to attend the school you want her to, but I guarantee you that you will burn years of goodwill between you if you do. Talk it over with her, make a spreadsheet, but let her make the final decision as long as she meets your financial guidelines.
Sometimes the problem with getting the big package is the student is getting it because they are overqualified for that school. The biggest misfit is typically one of intellectual fit. We had one offered the moon and stars, visited the school several times hoping each time it would feel great, but it just didn’t. Never regretted letting all the money go. The discomfort for four years, not fitting in with the peers, and future connections would not have been worth the free money. Now if you can get all that and the student likes it, that is a fabulous combo.
I doubt the scholarship will have any impact whatsoever on the opportunities that your student gets once they are enrolled. The exception would be if there are specific programs attached to the scholarship (eg research programs, honors classes, etc). I’ve found that financing is completely separate from the academic side of things and the academic side of things is mostly about what the student makes of it.
I also am a believer in “fit”. Your student is gaining a new community for the next fours years. For my children fit was a big factor. However, some people are really flexible, easy going and highly adaptable. Honestly, my children have those traits in smaller measure. They have friends that would do well just about anywhere. You need to find the right balance for your child and family.
My real concern is not the money but what actual benefits these kids get from being in honors and essentially being courted by the school that is offering them full tuition. In this case, the award of full tuition was above and beyond normal merit. In other words, she was given a generous merit package and then asked to apply for the full tuition award which she won. My guess is the kids that also won the award are the cream of the crop of the incoming freshman. So I would think the school would have them on their radar since there were so few of them. If all that’s true, it would seem to be an offer far more valuable than just the money. Thoughts?
Schools that do not offer merit money may not need to do so to get the best students. Would you rather your child be special or among mostly her peer group at he school? Those reach schools may have higher expectations of all of their students and your child may be surrounded by her peers instead of standing out from them. She may be more challenged, be offered more content and learn more in the more academically elite school. Most college students will not be stars. Being a star is not needed in college for getting good jobs and post graduate training.
Those schools who don’t invest in her education via scholarships likely will offer as much or more of value to your child. They will also be offering the same quality to many more students than the one giving your child a financial boost. Your child’s campus world will be different. btw- those huge public U’s have caring professors who get to know students. They have Honors programs that could be superior in content and rigor and offer many more high level courses.
Bottom line- is the lower cost education worth it for your high achieving child? If you can afford the costs do not settle for the cheapest option if it means a lesser education. Of course, you and your D will determine what constitutes more/less.
Yes, usually Honors college students get preferred housing, preferred registration for classes, smaller classes, sometimes study abroad money, special invitations from faculty for projects, research, dinners. They are treated as special. Some really like that, want to be the big fish. Others would prefer to just be one of many smart kids at a different college.
My niece went to an honors program at a nice, but not tippy top, school. She was very happy there, had a lot of leadership roles in the student government and on her sports team, had priority registration, got credit for AP classes so was ‘moved’ to sophomore status early (which meant a cheaper meal plan). She graduated with honors, but her roommate and several friends were Phi Beta Kappa. This group of honor students had a lot of mentoring, a lot of opportunities that I don’t think they might have had at a bigger school or a more elite school. The roommate had also been accepted to USC, and I think Duke. Would she have been PBK there? She’s at a top law school now. Would she have been accepted from USC? No way to know. No way to know what would have been the outcome if another path was taken. I do think this group of honors students were a little coddled, got a lot of attention, formed a pack and looked after each other (niece got her student government job through her friend, the president). They chose the big fish path and it worked for them. They felt challenged by the courses and programs. They all studied in Europe for a semester or year, and then spent most of their time hopping from one country to another to meet up.
How do you know the big merit offer school won’t end up being a great “fit”? Last year when my daughter was applying to schools, she believed that she would be happy at any of them. There was a big range of school types from the medium to large publics and smaller to medium sized privates. We never visited the schools, though she did attend summer music camp programs on one of the campuses for years. One private was a reach both academically (as it is for all) and financially, the other privates were matches academically and reaches financially. In order to afford any of the publics she needed merit. Our goal as a family was to get the best merit to quality ratio and get as close as possible to our budgeted amount that we were up front about before the application proces. It was a long senior year, and the best merit offer came in at the very end of the process. She chose to full tuition offer and the school has turned out to be great for her. She is very happy there. It fits.
Does the fact that the school was not a top 3 choice mean your daughter doesn’t like the school? What is she saying about how this offer, and what doesn’t she like? Was there a reason she applied there, besides it being a safety?
I think you have to quantify how far above the average student she is. My daughter’s stats were in the 75th percentile for most of the school’s she applied to. They were all excellent schools, so I had no doubt she would fit in at any of them and be challenged. She enrolled at the school that gave her the most money. It was the lowest ranked school on her list (USNWR and other rankings), but also her favorite. I think it’s a matter of degree.
My daughter would not have taken a full ride at a school that wasn’t filled with serious, hard-working students. That would have frustrated her, as it did in high school, so that criteria was high on her list. It really depends on what your daughter is looking for and how off the mark the school is.
I know a few kids who ‘took the money’. One turned down Dartmouth for a BS/MD program at a lower level school. She knew what she wanted-she liked being at the top and didn’t like the idea of being in the middle at Dartmouth. Although there was a collective gasp when people heard where she was going, she seems very happy there 3/4 of the way through her freshman year.
Our kid’s strategy revolved around honors and merit scholarships. D visited every school before applying, and only applied to those she thought would be a good fit and offered a chance at honors and merit. Almost all offered her substantial merit scholarships. She did not take the highest one, but took the school she was most excited about (and thankfully it fit within our budget). She’s had a tremendous experience - the program really makes a special effort for Honors kids - special excursions, special speakers, trips, speaking opportunities - and she’s found amazing mentors. She might have anywhere, but the bonus is she’s done this at a school that won’t put her (or us) into debt, so she will be able to afford the gradute programs her mentors are encouraging her to apply for.
S is following a similar path. He was invited to apply for a full ride scholarship at one school, but that school had dropped to the bottom of his list so he chose not to. He has significant enough merit scholarships at other schools that again, we know he can go somewhere he truly wants to be, in an honors program that will offer him additional opportunities, at a budget that is very doable.
I had no choice but to chase money, and it worked out great for me, but it means a lot to me for my kids to have options. Thankfully they’re also not kids who focus on name-brand prestige but instead determine their own important factors.
"My D was given a full tuition scholarship at a school that wasn’t her fist, second or even third choice. Other than the money, I feel the opportunities that will be available to her at this school versus what she will encounter at her reach schools may be tremendous and should not be overlooked. To me, if a school is willing to invest several hundred thousand dollars in her education, they will have a vested interest in her success. I must admit I feel I am completely in the minority on CC as it seems that many parents are overly concerned with “fit”. Can anyone really say a college is or isn’t for them after a 1 or 2 day visit? Thoughts??! "
- Well you maybe a minority, but I am in the same minority and my opinion is not “theoretical”, but rather based on the “looking back” experience. My opinion is also shared by my D. who mentioned many times that she attended at the UG that had more opportunities for her that she ever anticipated to have at ANY college. She was saying it when she started at medical school, she is still saying it as a first year resident. As parents, we feel exactly the same, her achievements during college years and after graduation well exceeded our expectations. D. attended at her #2 though, so it was not at the bottom f her list. Her decision was hard to make as her #1, small private, also offered her very high Merit award, which was almost full tuition. D. ended up attending at in-state public on full tuition Merit award in Honors college which accepted 200 top applicants. Honors provided a great benefit of priority registration which was crucial in my D’s very busy schedule. All along we felt that she was provided greater opportunities than were open to the general student body, but keep in mind that she was able to maintain straight A college gpa and this fact definitely played a role in all aspects of her college experiences.
“Follow the money” philosophy has worked for our D. twice - choosing her private HS (also Merit award) and her college and in both cases we felt that the adcoms definitely knew that she would fit in their specific environment and will be successful there. And she was beyond everybody’s expectations!
Best wishes to you D., whichever school she will choose!
OP, from your posting history is the full tuition/honors school Tulane? If so then your concerns about academic rigor and a lack of “opportunities” is totally unfounded.
I think that this experience of getting such a great offer from a school that is not on the top of the list is a really good argument for visiting and trying to determine fit long before the financial aid packages and acceptances come out…Because we only allowed our child to apply to places within a 4 hour driving window, we were able to do that. not everyone has the resources for those pre acceptance visits…
I wouldn’t be overly concerned about “fit” either, especially if the school is large enough to offer something for everyone. You can find congenial people almost anywhere, and making something that’s not perfect work can be a valuable life skill.
Depends on the college in question.
A kid interested in majoring in Medieval History or Nanotechnology is not going to be served well by University of New Haven or Quinnipiac or Hofstra- no matter how much money gets thrown their way, and no matter how congenial the other kids are, and no matter how much priority registration they get.
If a kid is lucky enough that the university in question is a big and comprehensive place with deep bench strength in faculty in a wide range of disciplines then sure- you can make something that’s not a perfect fit be a solid fit. But some schools just don’t work for a particular kid and all the CC “it’s not the college it’s the student” stuff doesn’t make it fit any better.
Not all Honors programs are created equal. Not every kid is going to find a professor or two or five who has any interest whatsoever in what the kid wants to study. Not every kid is going to have sufficient malleability in his or her interests.
Can a kid get a job in engineering graduating from a program which is not ABET accredited? Sure. Is that the right path for a “I want to be an engineer” student? if it’s the only way college is affordable- absolutely. Is that the right path for a kid who actually has a choice- an affordable choice- for a better program? Even if it means modest loans and the CC amen crowd saying "only a moron pays for college? I dunno- your kid gets one crack at a BS. Why not make it the highest quality that it can be?
Agree with Blossom that it depends on the school that is offering the scholarship. If it is a school that is not at all known and at which your daughter’s stats would put her way above the typical student, it may be a really poor fit and all the good opportunities may not lead to the graduate school or job she wants. But if it is a case of not being her top choice, but still be a well respected college with other serious students where she can find her people and be successful for less cost, that sounds like a win-win situation.
My kids have a very limited budget, so full-tuition scholarships are not something they can ignore. “Fit” is not a term that we use when we start looking at schools if the term is meant to suggest that the school matches all of their desires for their college experience.
That does not mean, however, that “fit” is completely ignored. Fit for them is more about does the school fit their needs…offer their major with plenty of course offerings, offer opportunities in their major outside of the classroom, and offer career development opportunities, especially for majors where their degree is not matched directly with a career path. (No college appt has been more of a turn off then when a group of srs did not know what they were going to do after graduation.)
The approach we have taken has been for them to meet with depts, sit in on classes,attend a “club” meeting (if the school has a club revolving around their major), etc. Those types of visits shed a lot more info than a simple college tour.
In terms of intellectual “match,” we have found that dept visits shed a lot of light. When there is a group of strong students dedicated to their major, clubs, organizations, etc supporting the major tend to exist. When the major is offered and you cannot find anything outside of the dept and course catalog about the major, it may be a sign that that dept exists, but may not be attracting strong vibrant students enthusiastic about that major. (Not always true, but lots of activity outside of the classroom is usually a good sign.)