<p>err yeah theyre both great schools without a doubt, but i'd have to say that berkeley is the stronger one (this including prestige/recognition). in fact, it is ranked the second in the world, below harvard, and is the top state school. however, i am not pretending to believe that these polls are completely accurate or that i would completely rely on them for an objective, correct view on the matter, but still.
i wish you the best of luck with your decision making, you really can't lose!</p>
<p>"And some of you are putting words into my mouth. I never once said that business is an easy major. I said it may be one of the easiest, but "easiest" does not imply easy. Music and art history are generally seen to be the easiest majors then business following that. "</p>
<p>again this makes no sense, you say you never said business was an easy major....next sentence, you said it may be one of the "easiest", but that "doesnt" mean easy....next sentence, busines is easier than music and art history.....</p>
<p>you just flip flopped about three times right there. Business is tough, and it's even tougher at the top schools, some of which you mentioned as being easy (of which your figures about GPA's are incorrect).</p>
<p>and your statistics about football players at ohio state are simply not accurate, and USC's average GPA is curved to a 2.8/B-, this is a fact, what you said is "not" a fact. I'm now debating whether you are purposefully being like this, at this point since some of the things you are saying are so unfounded they are bordering ridiculous.</p>
<p>This is off topic anyway, but since this topic is about schoool decisions i dont want the thread started to make assumptions based on even this type of logic in application to whatever major the thread starter wants to pursue and to make sure he's getting information from a good source, i'm not sure what benz's deal is, but he's acting a little bit off kilter at this point.</p>
<p>This is what I said for those who can't interpret English: "Music and art history are generally seen to be the easiest majors then business following that." Does that say business is easier than music and art history? NO.</p>
<p>Also, easiest is a relative term. Easiest does not mean easy. I'm sorry if you don't understand that. Business is not easy, but it is easier than the majority of college majors.</p>
<p>And the Ohio State numbers? I counted them myself! Of course they're right. Take a look and you can count for yourself if you don't believe me.<br>
<a href="http://ohiostatebuckeyes.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/osu-m-footbl-mtt-alph.html%5B/url%5D">http://ohiostatebuckeyes.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/osu-m-footbl-mtt-alph.html</a>
If you don't believe their roster then you can take it up with the University.</p>
<p>And the USC number? I got if off of the Marshall website. The average SAT score of acceptances in to Marshall in recent years has been as low as 1098!</p>
<p>looked at the roster, and considering alot of those football players are also engineering majors, them being in a program says nothing about difficulty, as engineering can also be a hard major.</p>
<p>and i'm sure if you actually looked at the marshall website you'd know that the business program curves all its classes to a 2.8, thats the rule there, you know how curves work right? and your SAT figure is well, made up. Firstly you're reluctant to say you saw it on the marshall website, but no schools website would advertise that figure. In case you havent been paying attention but in "recent years" the marshall business program has greatly upped its acceptance requirments, it's more in the mid 1300's right now, not the figure you "found".</p>
<p>and your apology is accepted, it can hard to understand your rational of what is a hard major since it's so strange. There's plenty of majors easier than business, actually there's not a ton that are harder, perhaps some other intense B.S. engineering programs, pre-med, and maybe pre-law.</p>
<p>I am just laughing out loud at those who say Berkeley is harder to get in than Northwestern. Where is that coming from? Certainly not from average test scores.</p>
<p>Northwestern:
Test scores SAT verbal scores over 500 99%, SAT math scores over 500 100%, ACT scores over 18 100%, SAT verbal scores over 600 91%, SAT math scores over 600 94%, ACT scores over 24 97%, SAT verbal scores over 700 51%, SAT math scores over 700 63%, ACT scores over 30 68% </p>
<p>Berkeley
Test scores SAT verbal scores over 500 92%, SAT math scores over 500 96%, ACT scores over 18 N/R, SAT verbal scores over 600 71%, SAT math scores over 600 82%, ACT scores over 24 N/R, SAT verbal scores over 700 30%, SAT math scores over 700 47%, ACT scores over 30 N/R </p>
<p>So much for "many with 1600 got rejected". Looks to me many with less than 1200 got into Berkeley too (look esp verbal--almost 30% with less than 600)! Sorry, I just like to be "fair and balanced". LOL! It seems to me Westside likes playing the game the Chinese communist party loves--to propagate only the good and hide the bad. <grin></grin></p>
<p>I am Chinese from Hong Kong; I am tired of this whole "Chinese/Asians heard of this and that". The Chinese have very superficial understanding of American universities and are too obssessed with rankings that most of them don't even know what those rankings mean. It's their problem not knowing many other amazing schools in the US, not the other way around.</p>
<p>By the way, the original poster didn't say he/she wanted to work in Asia, did he/she?</p>
<p>
[quote]
them being in a program says nothing about difficulty, as engineering can also be a hard major.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Do you know anything about Ohio State? Probably not. That is the most popular college in my high school so I know over 50 people that attend. Business is the consensus choice for one of the easiest majors. </p>
<p>And I'd be interested in seeing where you're getting all your curve numbers at.</p>
<p>Why is it that if you do engineering you can basically go to any college, but if you do business you have to go to a top 10? It's because business programs aren't respected out of the top ones whereas engineering programs are rigorous all around the country.</p>
<p>My best friend's dad was the CEO of a Fortune 500 company and the President of another, and he refused to pay for his son's education after he told him he wanted to major in business. He said it was useless and a waste of money. (Not useful in the sense of not getting any jobs, but useful in the sense of knowledge gained).</p>
<p>you dont have to go into the top 10 for business for it to be good or challenging, just like engineering, both programs have their podunk programs and their better ones. Your question is more of a lukewarm rhetorical opinion, i wont even start on your "my friends dad says" story, as it is merely a story, one i could ad lib for just about anything.</p>
<p>and perhaps i'll contend your other question with one of my own, do you know anything about USC or any of the other programs you mentioned that are not "popular at your high school"? because contrary to the figures you provided and "claimed" to have gotten from a reliable source they are wrong.</p>
<p>how would i know? because i attend USC! perhaps i would know a thing or two more about their class average and grade curve? i know what the curve is at the business program and i also know the average SAT acceptance numbers. I also know a thing or two about business programs and what makes a hard major and they are almost as hard as most B.S. majors which in general are the harder majors at a university, unless you're severly qualitatively challenged (which in all fairness more than the odd few are).</p>
<p>Well whether you believe me or not, I could really care less. </p>
<p>It's certainly your prerogative to go throughout life thinking business is one of the hardest majors. But when you get to Real Analysis, Organic Chemistry, or Quantum Mechanics tell me.</p>
<p>I met a fair number of ug science and engineering majors in business school and most of them did not find it particularly easy overall. The math sections might have been easier to them but all the other factors of logic and analysis were not that easy for them. Neither were the more psychological factors and doing writing and presentations.</p>
<p>"Well whether you believe me or not, I could really care less. </p>
<p>It's certainly your prerogative to go throughout life thinking business is one of the hardest majors. But when you get to Real Analysis, Organic Chemistry, or Quantum Mechanics tell me."</p>
<p>you could care less? throwing alot of false and crazy logic and figures at me (most of which are still confirmed as made up) is a funny way of showing it.</p>
<p>it is certaintly your perogative to go through life thinking business is not one of the hardest majors because of fake numbers and your "friends dad CEO" story, let me know when you realize the truth. and I had already said engineering and pre-med subjects can be harder as well, so mentioning quantum mechanics and biochem is kind of pointless, it only concurs what i said. when you take classes ranging from business law to finance to marketing (oh my what useless slacker classes) you tell me.</p>
<p>spincut,</p>
<p>USC's undergrad engineering curriculum is actually one of the least rigorous I've ever seen. I graduated with a chemE degree from Northwestern and when I saw the USC's chemE curriculum (because someone asked me about it), I was pretty surprised how light it was. The biz program may be as hard as the engineering ones at USC, but I am afraid USC is an exception. I would say biz programs are in general easier to absorb to average person. My friend who graduated with MBA from INSEAD told me a lot of them were waste of time and readily understood intuitively. The ones that are most challenging are probably those in financical engineering/actuarial field (I am actually kinda interested in it) but I don't think they are typical classes taken by biz majors. Northwestern has industrial engineering (IE) major (at Stanford, it's called management science and engineering) which is somewhat closer to a biz program; I had two classmates who couldn't handle chemE and were much happier after switching to IE.</p>
<p>Yeah exactly, I don't care whether you believe my anecdote or not. He said what he said, sorry if you can't handle the truth. I would respect a seasoned business veteran before a college undergraduate who doesn't really know much about business. Whether you believe me or not isn't going to change the fact of the advice that he gave me (GO INTO A TECHNICAL FIELD).</p>
<p>It's no use arguing anymore though.</p>
<p>Sam Lee, I don't see how SAT can be used to judge how difficult a university is. Have you thought about the fact that UCB does not have to buy student with high SAT scores? UCB has to take kids from CA. Could the fact that you go to Northwestern bias your opinion on UCB. I have nothing against NU and I don't really like UCB that much( because of all the Asians in my former neighborhood go gaga over it )but I want to be fair and mention all the pros/cons of UCB.</p>
<p>Susie,</p>
<p>The conclusions I made were two: 1. Berkeley does take quite a few with less than 1200; 2. Berkeley's average SAT scores are lower than Northwestern's (probably 50-60 points less) and that doesn't support the claim by Berkeley fans that Berkeley is harder to get in. Note it doesn't mean I am saying Berkeley is easier to get in. Living in Cal myself, I am actually quite aware what you pointed out. The fact is the two schools have rather different admission scheme and Cal, being public, has to go by some rigid formula and take certain number/percent or whatever from certain schools. If someone with 1600 get denied admission, it's very likely it's because his class rank/gpa doesn't make the rigid cut by Cal's formula, whatever that is. That person probably has better chance to get into Northwestern. But someone with less than 1200 can also get into Berkeley, thanks to the same formula applied to less competitive/underpriviledged schools and that person probably would have no chance to get into Northwestern (though essays can do wonder esp at NU's admission). Overall, Cal's admission is more number driven (GPA, class rank, test scores); Northwestern looks at those also but also looks at ECs carefully and is one of the few that give essays (non-common application) equal weight as test scores/class rank/gpa. When the two schools are of similar caliber but the admission scheme is so different at the same time, it's just ridiculous to claim one is more difficult to get in than another.</p>
<p>Benz, from your attitude to your falicious figures, i question anything you post as being even close to rationing as the "truth". Sorry, if you're THAT delusional to pressupose that you're any expert on the truth, with or without this "guy"'s testimony. I'm wondering if you've even started your college education yet to base your logic on, or if you're just an engineering hopeful that wants to boost your own interests.</p>
<p>you want to play tit for tat? my father is a multimillion dollar real estate developer and he beleives that a business education is highly valuable, so there you go, by your logic i now am just as right, if not more than you and i'd beleive my own personal advances in college plus the many business people i know to your one person.</p>
<p>but you are correct about one thing, it is no use arguing, you presume everything about something without knowing anything about it (unless you are a business major, otherwise you just have a story about a guy you know and a bunch of vindictive theories some of which you made up). have fun going into your "technical field", whatever your logic actually would clarify that as, but dont let anyone think that yours is one of the few or only "hard majors" because you'll get into the same argument with anyone from a business major to anything else you'd care to grossly underestimate.</p>
<p>---and to the topic poster, i read your comments and although i thikn very highly of northwestern i think you should swing towars cal, for the money, the location, and the fact that their program is more than likely not disparate in northwesterns (i mean to say, neither too much worse or too much better....or equivicable).</p>
<p>spincut,</p>
<p>I think uc_benz just meant business curriculum are in general less intense than engineering curriculum. It doesn't mean it's less valuable. What's funny is many engineers learn it the hard way and switch to biz field later on to make more money (if being valuable means making more $). Heck, my chemE thermodynamics is completely useless although I bet it's harder conceptually than organizational behavior or corporate finance.</p>
<p>i dont think thats what he means. but I would generally agree with YOUR assessment, i used to be an engineering major myself, and it is quite tough though, so doing something easier can still be very difficult (albeit there are some engineering disciplines, like civil, which arent as difficult).</p>
<p>but if you read his flagrant posts you'd see he is saying it's both less valuable (if it all, which is ridiculous) and less rigorous, and not just compared to engineering, that's just incorrect.</p>
<p>My father was also an engineering major. He ended up quite successful (plenty of engineers do) but he always wished he had gotten a business education instead, just evidence that someone else saying something should not be the backbone of any persons opinion about a major.</p>
<p>The people who get in with 1050 or less on their SAT at Berkeley makes up 2% of the student body. And there are 6-8% of the student body with 1100 or less SAT at all East Coast Ivy leagues. Why should Berkeley be punished for giving those extra positions to disadvantaged teens who study uber hard, instead of the rich dumb legacies at the Ivies? Berkeley has 800-900 students with 1500+ on the SAT every year. Investment banks who want to interview the most 1500+ students possible to fill in 20 analyst spots, would put Berkeley undergrad as one of the best places to recruit. Especially given the hard work ethic of Berkeley students. </p>
<p>Granted in the end, a below 1100 SAT from Berkeley is much harder working than a 1100 and below from a grade inflated school like Harvard. Because Berkeley is known for producing quality hard working students. On top of that, why should they be punished for being born to a poor family, I mean they worked super hard, they just didn't do so good on the SAT.</p>
<p>good sat scores doesn't mean as much as high gpa scores. infact sat scores are more strongly associated with the income of the family of the student. berkeley is NOTORIOUSLY hard for out of state students to get in, especially this year, i know a couple of people who got into ivy leagues but rejected from UCs, and this isn't uncommon either. so you're kinda right about it being hard to compare, but if you're out of state you have a higher chance to get into NW.</p>
<p>
[quote]
On top of that, why should they be punished for being born to a poor family, I mean they worked super hard, they just didn't do so good on the SAT.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I don't think you can automatically correlate income and SAT's. There are various factors that go into taking the tests such as educational background, emotional state, standardized test-taking skills, etc.</p>