<p>Could it be because the difference in job and career prospects between STEM-other-than-biology-or-chemistry and humanities-and-social-studies-other-than-business-and-economics is greater at CSUs than it is at Berkeley?</p>
<p>The article argues it’s because Berkeley places top students in a Hunger Games against other top students, making it a pain to complete the degree since all of your classes are on a competitive curve. Higher risk for possibly higher reward? That seems to be the thought process.</p>
<p>Would anyone help me with the grades at Cal. What is A+ refer to in GPA?</p>
<p>^4.0, just like an A</p>
<p>Yes, the name Berkeley will supersede GPA. Big time! just getting into Cal is so hard, that says it all. you are fine dude. better than fine and congratulations on getting into the number one public school in the WORLD. just stick it out and graduate. you rock.</p>
<p>^Actually, Cambridge is the #1 public in the world.</p>
<p>At the vast majority of places, the GPA is only good for getting you an interview. Even then, it’s really used to just separate two otherwise equivalent applicants.</p>
<p>I have several friends in EECS with ~2.x GPAs that have landed jobs after a search. Those who did have issues just blew interviews when they clearly demonstrate that they can’t do the job despite having the degree.</p>
<p>loldanielol
ah yes, cambridge! i love it there. uc santa cruz is modeled after cambridge because the early chancellor graduated from cambridge. of course it depends which ranking you check. so i will not argue with you about that. love cambridge. and euro schools are great because there is no general ed, which is great, because GE is a waste of time.</p>
<p>okay, google and yahoo might ask for GPA, but why work for such controlling freaks? and if you say 4.0, are they going to check on that? no, because they can’t. </p>
<p>GPA is great for getting into graduate school. right? anyway, an undergraduate degree from Cal is better than a graduate degree from a lower ranking US school. seriously. companies want to list you on their roster with “UC Berkeley” because we live in a branded world. good luck peeps! go bears!</p>
<p>^Actually many schools is Asia also don’t do GE because they are based of European schools. But this is also because these countries get your GE done in the last two years of high school, and they have a standardized education system at that last two years of high school unlike the United States. Not all public education is equal in the US due to federalism and each State having different education standards.</p>
<p>PS: I’m not saying I’m against federalism, I actually prefer it to having just one central government.</p>
<p>^ i went to grade school in europe and by the time i was in seventh grade i had completed pre cal and all my GE. US high school is a waste of time and just filled with sports programs (???), that suck up all the academic money. cheerleaders and football players have nothing to do with academics, so why am i paying taxes for all that junk? even though i was born in california i am so relieved that i went to school in europe. and people wonder why we have problems with education? they just built a giant football field at my ccc, the same year they cancelled latin, closed the dance department, closed down the photography department. blah blah. oh, and they also built a brand new “fitness center” that looks like 24 hour fitness?! meanwhile we spend millions of dollars (tax dollars) researching “Why american kids score so low on the international academic tests…” shocker.</p>
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<p>Uh, sure they can. And indeed they do all the time. Offer letters from top firms are often times contingent upon the receipt of a sealed, official transcript. You can refuse, but then they will rescind your offer. </p>
<p>Heck, many employers, including [url=<a href=“http://blog.timesunion.com/success/do-you-hire-people-the-google-way/1222/]Google[/url”>http://blog.timesunion.com/success/do-you-hire-people-the-google-way/1222/]Google[/url</a>], are even asking for [url=<a href=“http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB106729501444224900,00.html]SAT[/url”>http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB106729501444224900,00.html]SAT[/url</a>] scores. </p>
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<p>Well, what can I say? Google (perhaps not so much Yahoo now) is, whether we agree with it or not, considered to be a [url=<a href=“http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703512404576208702115862760.html?mod=rss_whats_news_us/article/SB10001424052748703512404576208702115862760.html?mod=rss_whats_news_us]top-tier[/url”>http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703512404576208702115862760.html?mod=rss_whats_news_us/article/SB10001424052748703512404576208702115862760.html?mod=rss_whats_news_us]top-tier[/url</a>] employer that offers the opportunity to do high-impact, exciting work. Perhaps more importantly, Google offers the opportunity to build a high-powered network amongst like-minded and savvy technology enthusiasts. Numerous Silicon Valley startups have been founded by former Google employees who met each other while at Google.</p>
<p>But more valuable than all of the above is the resume-boost of the Google brand. Indeed, northbeach, this is an asset that you yourself should appreciate the most, given how often you’ve cited the power of the Berkeley brand. You said it yourself - “we live in branded world”. For the purposes of career development, the exact same market-signalling power that can be attributed to the Berkeley brand can also be attributed to the Google brand…but probably even more so because Google is an actual employer. By listing Google on your resume, you’re not only declaring that you’ve developed work experience at one of the most innovative and important tech firms on the last decade, but you’ve also had the wherewithal to survive the grueling Google hiring process. The Google brand is a golden passport to be leveraged to join other top employers, be admitted to a top MBA program, obtain VC funding, or a bevy of other career avenues.</p>
<p>So sure, you might argue that you might not want to work for such “controlling freaks” as Google and its like. Fine. The problem is that many (almost certainly the vast majority) of other employers don’t really provide exciting career development opportunities. They certainly don’t provide the brand boost on your resume. By definition, most firms have mediocre brands, and are mediocre places to work that provide mediocre opportunities. If you’re willing to settle for those jobs, then sure, you don’t need to worry about GPA. But what if you want something better?</p>
<p>no, i would not work for google because of that, and yes they did offer me an executive position a few years back, and i turned them down flat because they are controlling freaks. asking for gpa is a great sign of a company you do not want to work for. like drug testing.</p>
<p>in the film industry (where i work) NO one would ask for gpa, i mean that is retardo. </p>
<p>“willing to settle” ? frankly, i do not think you have a clue what you are talking about dude. you mean like opting to work for a first class organization that has integrity and respects privacy? oh yeah, what a downer man. big drag. </p>
<p>there is Nothing exciting about working for controlling freaks. it is like signing up to be a robot drone with no control over your own life. why would i ever opt for that and believe it is exciting? wow, the brainwashing going on in the united states right now is stunning. people have lost all concept of the importance of privacy and independence. anyway, i run my own company.</p>
<p>and yes, the “berkeley brand” stands for something great worldwide. and one of the things it stands for is freedom and independence while the “google brand” is making a name for itself as an oppressor with an insidious political agenda. and europeans and others think that google is freakazoid. no, i do not want to be associated with google or the google brand. and if ever there was a more useless degree in my opinion, it is an MBA. i mean why would anyone go to school to learn how to make money? making money is one of the easiest things to do on earth. and bill gates didn’t need one, and if people did any research they would soon discover that the richest people often dropped out of school in order to make all that money. </p>
<p>more jobs for you at google—no competition here. haha</p>
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<p>And exactly which organization would that be, and are they hiring? </p>
<p>Not everybody - even with a degree from Berkeley - has the choice to work for a, as you put it, “first class organization”. I wish they did. </p>
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<p>Maybe it isn’t exciting. Maybe you won’t have control. But hey, they pay well (starting engineers being paid nearly 6-figures at Google), and, like I said, are an excellent resume brand-boost. That’s far better than what most other employers offer. </p>
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<p>Wow. Just wow. Did you really say that, particularly given that you’re a European? </p>
<p>If making money is truly one of the easiest things to do on earth, then pray tell, would you care to explain the worldwide economic misery of the past 4 years, with millions of people being thrown out of work, forced to declare bankruptcy, losing their homes, having their retirement dreams dashed, and having to resort to welfare? Perhaps you’d care to explain the neo-Depression and sovereign debt catastrophe grinding through Europe? If making money was truly so easy, then does that mean that the millions of newly-poor throughout the world must be simply incompetent and lazy? If so, would you dare to say that to them directly? Would you dare to give a public speech in Athens detailing how ‘easy’ you think it is to make money? I don’t think you’ll need a return ticket, because I rather doubt that you’ll leave alive. </p>
<p>Look, northbeach, we’re in the midst of the worst economic catastrophe in 80 years, probably with greater calamities yet to fall. People throughout the world are rightfully worried about their careers and their financial futures. Now is not exactly the best time to be choosy about the types of employers you might like to work for, and certainly not to insist on working only for the “first-class organizations” (however defined). </p>
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<p>Oh, I don’t know, perhaps because school is expensive?. Even if you’re an instate student, Berkeley is now one of the more expensive public schools in the country, and probably destined to be more so in the near future. If nothing else, at least you have to generate sufficient income to cover your student debts. </p>
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<p>Are you implying that people should then drop out of Berkeley?</p>
<p>i was born at stanford hospital in the heart of silicon valley dude. and i used to watch steve jobs skateboard by the house. money is not important. prostitutes make money dude. integrity and loving what you do is important. working for a company like google who handed over all the personal info of their users to the us government without batting an eyelash is beyond freakish. </p>
<p>berkeley will pay all your tuition if you earn under 80k per year and if you earn 140k per year you still qualify for financial aid at berkeley. i am not implying that people should drop out of berkeley, where did i say that? i am clearly stating that MBA’s are bogus. why not get a law degree if you are interested in business. seriously. those are great. and very useful. but an MBA? hahahahah. </p>
<p>no one should drop out of berkeley. if they can get in, graduate in whatever degree you want, with any gpa, and you are doing great!
gpa is bogus too, einstein had a low one. </p>
<p>anyway, good luck dude. hope you enjoy school. you have spunk.</p>
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<p>And since you’re apparently so familiar with California, you would surely recognize that a family in either the Bay Area or Southern California (by far the two largest sources of Berkeley students) who are making only $80k a year - with college-age kids - is tantamount to living in poverty. </p>
<p>Families making up to $140k, along with the students themselves, are still responsible for a substantial chunk of the costs of Berkeley. Much of that cost is likely to be born by debt, which needs to be paid back. </p>
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<p>By all means, please tell that to the millions of people around the world who are struggling to simply put food on the table because of the financial crisis. Many of them can’t find jobs at all, and many of those who do have jobs are straining to make ends meet.</p>
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<p>So are you saying that all of the immiserated women around the world should simply work as prostitutes? Heck, I can think of several women who just declared personal bankruptcy because they had lost their jobs and haven’t been rehired. Every day, they wonder what they’ll do for money. Would you like to tell them about your, ahem, ‘indecent proposal’? </p>
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<p>You said that “if people did any research they would soon discover that the richest people often dropped out of school in order to make all that money.” It seems to me that the implication is that people who need money don’t need to bother with graduating from Berkeley (or any college for that matter), as they can simply drop out of college. </p>
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<p>Well, like it or not, MBA’s (at least from the top schools) obtain high starting salaries. Perhaps more importantly, they are the gateway to many of the ‘elite’ firms in the world. </p>
<p>Now, perhaps you disagree that MBA’s should be paid so well. Perhaps you disagree that they do serve as the gateway to such ‘elite’ firms, or perhaps you even agree that those firms are even ‘elite’ in the first place. Nevertheless, what is undeniable is that, like it or not, the MBA degree is effective for obtaining a particular type of job that seem to pay highly and, at least in the eyes of some, are seen as highly desirable. If you want those jobs, then you have to follow their rules. </p>
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<p>Look, however bogus you or even I may personally think GPA is, the fact remains that many employers - and certainly many grad schools - demand high GPA’s. You can denigrate them all you want, and they’re still going to demand high GPA’s, whether we like it or not. And since they’re the ones offering the jobs or the admissions slots, they have the power to choose what they want.</p>
<p>^When I got my first internship the summer after my freshman year (aka last summer), I only had a 3.25 GPA. They interviewed me with data structure algorithm questions, which I answered correctly, and then made me take a programming test which I scored in the 97th percentile in on the first try (I only did a first try because my score was high enough for them). They then gave me the internship and I was the only freshman intern there.</p>
<p>This summer I’m doing another internship there with a better offer than last summer and I couldn’t be more excited. My GPA is much higher than last time but they didn’t even ask for my GPA or anything. They just said we’d be glad to have you back.</p>
<p>So GPA isn’t everything, unless you are applying to an extremely high end company perhaps. My dad works at Hewlett Packard and he did say they generally only hire engineers with a 3.5 GPA or higher, irregardless of what school they went to. So it does depend.</p>
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<p>Do you think you would have even gotten the interview at all if you had a 2.1 GPA? Be honest.</p>
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<p>Whoever wrote that post lost all credibility when he wrote this. lmao @ a law degree being great and very useful trolololololololol</p>
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<p>Obviously a 2.1 is notoriously low and such an argument is silly imo. It just feels like you’re bashing on all sub 3.5 (or maybe 3.7?) GPAs and I think that’s pushing it a little too far. But if you aren’t then yeah I agree with you. GPA is important, but a person in the 3.0 - 3.49 range may not be a big deep thinker about to revolutionize the world, but I still think they can be somewhat decent engineers.</p>
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<p>I deliberately invoked a corner case to prove the basic point that GPA does matter. If it truly did not, then everybody with 2.1 GPA’s would do wonderfully on the job market. </p>
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<p>Look, if anybody is ‘bashing’ on the sub-3.5/3.7 students, it is not I, but rather it is grad-school adcoms and elite employers. After all, I’m just an anonymous dude posting on a public website. Anything I say is just harmless words etched on the fabric of cyberspace. But they’re the ones who are making actual admit/reject decisions based, at least in part, on GPA. They’re the ones who are playing with people’s lives.</p>