<p>WOOO I LOVE CORNELL!!! CORNELL RULESSS!!!</p>
<p>And I agree that a self-selected survey would skew the data. I surely wouldn't want to take the time to fill out a survey about how I failed at something.</p>
<p>If I recall correctly, applicants are prompted whether or not they are willing to release data to their home institution while filling out the AMCAS (primary) application....so this is BEFORE applicants know of success/failure in the application process.</p>
<p>ohhh ok then. Let's make the assumption that it's a random sampling then, and that Berkeley's med school admissions rate is indeed atrocious.</p>
<p>Formerlyabcdefgh
Do you know how many people from Cal each year actually apply to medical school in the end of their senior year? I didn't know that only 1/3 people report their result and I thought that only around 100 people eventually got to apply to med school from Cal. </p>
<p>Thank you guys for all your reply! However, I can't decide now because I have some problems with my Cornell financial aid. I called the office few days ago to check on my application and they told me that my file was completed, but this morning when I called them, they told me that I needed to send in my 2006 tax return before they could make the decision. They extended the deadline for me to May 11th, but the problem is I also need to reply to Cal and the extension doesn't help in this situation. </p>
<p>I was kind of leaning toward Cornell after I learned that the advising system seems to be better than Cal's but now I am not sure.</p>
<p>How do you guys think the weather and distance from home contribute to your academic performance? I never lived in any place that snows (and I had never seen snow in my life until I visited Cornell few weeks ago) so I don't know how's that going to affect anything. Sure it's cold but does I thought people just stay inside so how's that going to affect things?</p>
<p>"ohhh ok then. Let's make the assumption that it's a random sampling then, and that Berkeley's med school admissions rate is indeed atrocious.".................</p>
<p>Well, considering the fact that 90% of Berkeley undergrads are California residents, I would argue that Berkeley's med school admissions rate is not atrocious. I thought we already went over this...go take a look at previous posts in this thread.</p>
<p>Cawaiigirl, In 2006, there were 574 applications from Berkeley students: </p>
<p>Just to clarify, there is pre-medical advising at Berkeley too. I personally never used the service because I like getting things done on my own, but my friends who used it said they were very helpful.</p>
<p>I'm a cornell grad, but I can tell you, for the arts scene and an intellectually inviting area, Cal and the Bay Area destroy Ithaca. Sure, ithaca is nice and NYC is half a days drive away...but you cannot beat the bay area and San Francisco.</p>
<p>Biology is outstanding at both schools. A 3.5 or above at either will get you into med school.</p>
<p>Cheers,
CUgrad</p>
<p>OP: I think in your particular case, Berkeley is what's best. If there's nothing about Cornell that stands out over Berkeley at this point, there probably won't be anything that stands out when you get here. So from what I read about in your posts and judging by the new financial problem with Cornell you are facing, I recommend you stay in California, save some money, and try to get into med school from there (despite the arguably shady admissions rate).</p>
<p>In your case, unless you really care about "going Ivy," I'd say go to Berkeley. Putting things in perspective, Berkeley is nothing less prestigious than Cornell. It also saves your family a LOT of money that would take a LONG time to save.</p>
<p>I almost made up my mind last night that I was going to Cornell only because most people told me that the advising system at Berkeley is not as good. I want to do anything I can to choose a undergrad college that's better for med school. But now it seems like that Berkeley is really the place where I should go. </p>
<p>I guess the actual reason why I struggled so much about choosing between Berkeley and Cornell is that I have a boyfriend who lives on the east coast and he wants me to go to Cornell. ( he said that he wanted me to go to the school that's best for me, but I know that he will be so happy if I am closer to him.) However, I guess I need to choose in favor of my parents since there's no obvious difference in the prestige of bio or visual art program at either college. I started this thread hoping secretly that someone will tell me some amazing things about Cornell that would just make me have to go there, but it turned out to be that even Cornell students recommend Berkeley : )</p>
<p>Thank you guys for all the replies. I really appreciate all the info you provided. </p>
<p>UCB class of 2011!!!</p>
<p>I would have gone to Cornell. I have friends at Cal and even they drive me crazy whining about the "weird" student body and huge class lines. </p>
<p>At Cornell, the fine arts department is excellent, you would be very pleased with what they offer. I think they're rated among the top few in the country. My gf is in arch so I'm pretty familiar with it. I'm not sure what you meant by not getting into some of the art classes, she got into painting her first semester freshmen year (and NOT because she's in arch). There's also a very fine art museum right next to the art building on campus that's constantly holding expos and inviding artists to campus to share their work. Student art is pretty popular at the museum as well. One of my other friends is also taking a photography class and she says it's excellent - and she gets to haul around this wicked expensive camera taking pictures of whatever for class credit. </p>
<p>I do have a few friends at Cal and I'd probably say the education is just as rigorous as at Cornell. Unfortunately, their med school placement rates are far below Cornell's even after all of the tough weed out classes. Med schools just dont seem thrilled with Cal for some reason, check the numbers yourself to verify. School released statistics will show you for sure. </p>
<p>Regardless, congratulations on your decision. I could keep going on more about Cornell, but I dont want to make you regret it yet!</p>
<p>well..I still have a few days to decide even though it's 90% Cal.</p>
<p>What I meant by it's hard for students in CAS to take fine art classes is that, I actually talked to a director at College of Architecture, and she told me that generally it's hard for freshmen from other college to take fine art (hands on) classes because they need to reserve the spots for their own students. </p>
<p>gomestar
If you know more about the difference between Cornell and Berkeley, please do tell me. And please also take into account that the Cornell's strength over Cal should worth the work study and loan...
Thank you for the reply!</p>
<p>
[quote]
1) The Berkeley Career Center website only shows numbers for LESS THAN ONE-THIRD of Berkeley applicants for that year (graduating seniors that released data to Berkeley).....the graduating seniors that didn't release data, the "time-off" applicants that released data, and "time-off" applicants that didn't release data (such as myself) are not represented......so don't look into the numbers too much.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>True, the numbers are not complete. But if anything, the hidden data would make most likely make Berkeley look * worse * off. After all, think about it. Who is more likely not to report in - somebody with excellent stats, or somebody with mediocre stats? Similarly, consider the time-off applicants. The longer time you take off, the less likely you are to report your stats back to your old alma mater. Yet the time-off applicants tend to be worse than the graduating seniors, for one simple reason - the time-off applicants include plenty of applicants who had applied in previous years and didn't get in anywhere, so they wait to apply again. </p>
<p>Hence, if anything, the published Berkeley data is * optimistic *. The true Berkeley data is almost certainly worse. </p>
<p>
[quote]
2) Top 20 medical schools according to US News....please, as if their rankings for medical schools aren't as arbitrary as their rankings for colleges. Every medical school faculty member I have talked to says that where one goes to medical school MEANS VERY LITTLE in the real world. Do you think the residents, attendings, and profs at Harvard Med that will be teaching the medical students went to Harvard Med as medical students? Or JHU? Or WashU? Think again. The majority of them went to schools not ranked in the top 20. Physicians aren't useful until they are in residency and beyond, and medical school is to residency what undergrad is to graduate school.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I agree that med-school rankings don't matter all that much. But if you can get into a top ranked med-school, all other things equal, why wouldn't you take it? If nothing else, you can use it for marketing purposes. </p>
<p>Consider how the following LASIK doc rather prominently displays where he got his MD. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.scotthyver.com/%5B/url%5D">http://www.scotthyver.com/</a></p>
<p>
[quote]
For the naive worshippers of US News rankings out there....</p>
<p>In the 1998 edition of US News Ranking of Medical Schools, Stanford Medical School was ranked #10:</p>
<p>Impressive, except for the fact that.......</p>
<p>In 1999, Stanford Medical School ALMOST DIDN'T GET ACCREDITED:</p>
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Uh, I fail to see how this holds relevance today. Nobody is talking about taking a time machine to apply to SMS 10 years in the past. We are talking about which med schools to go to today.</p>
<p>If your beef is that USNews is not 100% reliable, well, I think we all know that. No ranking is 100% reliable. The real question is, what's the alternative? If you don't like USNews, what else would you rather use? </p>
<p>
[quote]
3) I interviewed at several reputable medical schools,
[/quote]
</p>
<p>
[quote]
Personally, I withdrew from EVERY SINGLE Ivy League medical school once I got accepted to a California school very early on in the process. To me, location by itself was enough to axe ANY medical school east of California once I had a spot in California.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well, that's interesting. Now I'm just confused. What exactly do you mean by "a spot in California"? Aren't you getting an MS at Stanford right now? You say that you interviewed at several reputable medical schools, then why aren't you going to any of them instead of getting your Stanford MS right now? After all, if you're heading off to med-school anyway, why do you need to get an MS? Doctors don't need an MS. You say that you withdrew your applications to Ivy League med-schools once you got admitted to a California school, and by that, I take it that you can only mean your Stanford MS program? If that's the case, that's not quite the same thing, now it is? Withdrawing your * med school * applications so you can attend an * MS * program is not entirely comparable. </p>
<p>Let me offer my interpretation of events. Here's what I think happened, based on what you have said in your various posts. You applied to various med-schools. But you either didn't get into any med schools at all, or at least not into any the med-schools that you wanted to go (i.e. possibly the ones in California). So you've basically decided to wait for a year to apply again, and in the interim, pick up a Stanford MS. Am I warm? I think that story is certainly consistent with the data. </p>
<p>Now, if I am warm, then why not just tell the honest story - that being a Berkeley premed has (so far) not gotten you to the med school that you wanted to go to, and we can move on from there. There's no shame in honesty. </p>
<p>On the other hand, it does make things more curious due to the fact that you've railed at the supposedly 'ridiculous' tuition that private schools cost, and yet you're willing to pay it to get an MS that no doctor really needs. If you really thought the tuition was ridiculous, then why go? Why not just take a job for a year and make money rather than spending it on a degree that a doctor doesn't really need, especially if the tuition really is ridiculous?</p>
<p>lol sakky, that was brutal. I enjoyed reading your post nevertheless.</p>
<p>
[quote]
There's no shame in honesty.
[/quote]
Would you mind sharing with us which school/s you went to Sakky? Graduation year? I take it that Berkeley worked you hard.</p>
<p>I'd love to see Formerlyabcdefgh's response haha</p>
<p>Sakky,</p>
<p>But what would you say about full ride at Berkeley vs. $20,000 loan (total) + work study at Cornell? Does Cornell's smaller class and better advising system make it worth the cost? </p>
<p>Just to entertain you guys, my mom said that I should just choose whichever school I really want to go regardless of the $$, marry a rich guy after college and have him pay the debt off.</p>
<p>norcalguy, your wildest dream has come true as I will reply to Sakky's post. Try to suppress that massive erection as you read this. </p>
<p>Sakky,</p>
<p>I'll make this short and sweet because I'm pressed for time for the next few days (a couple brutal take-home midterms)...I apologize in advance if I can't respond promptly to any subsequent replies.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Do you have any real evidence that the "true" Berkeley data is "certainly worse"? I didn't release my data, and I was admitted....the vast majority of "time-off" applicants I know from Berkeley are first-time applicants. All but one that I know personally were admitted. The ONLY thing we can say about Berkeley's pre-med data is that it's incomplete. Period. </p></li>
<li><p>"All other things equal"...that is the issue, isn't it? In the vast majority of cases, all things aren't equal...keep in mind how limited the options are for most applicants. For me, location trumps prestige. Period. I'll be damned if I spend 4 years of my 20s in Bumf*k USA even if the name sticks afterwards, and various dummies are going to associate me with Nobel laureates that happened to take a dump in the bathroom in the building across the campus within the school I happened to be in for 4 years. </p></li>
<li><p>That LASIK doc is a glorified cosmetic doc....he caters mostly to rich clients that can afford (unnecessary) corrective vision surgery in a country where many people don't even have access to basic, crucial healthcare needs. From the website: "Dr. Hyver is 100% dedicated to LASIK and laser vision correction". He caters to many clients that bathe themselves in vanity and prestige. Am I surprised that he flaunts his Harvard degree? No. Am I impressed? No. In most medical scenarios, people don't question/care where you got your MD, they are just glad to see a physician as soon as possible. </p></li>
<li><p>You totally missed the point of the US News example: I was showing how misguided rankings are, US News and others. My alternative to US News Rankings: Don't use arbitrary rankings because using NO ranking is more helpful than using a misguided one and consequently choosing a school for all the wrong reasons.</p></li>
<li><p>I'll be attending a California med school in August. I am currently doing an MS. I started the application process before I started at Stanford, and I am still at Stanford, and will be graduating in June. My MS is unrelated to medicine, and was not intended to supplement it or enhance my application. They are unrelated. Sakky, I really respect your intellect, but I am very surprised that you didn't catch onto my situation after all my posts that you have read and commented on. Quite frankly, I was dumbfounded and very disappointed when I read your post. Instead of doing my 4th year at Berkeley, I am doing my 4th year at Stanford. It's VERY simple, Sakky. </p></li>
<li><p>I actually got into the med school that I wanted to go to, thank you very much (I will not disclose for privacy reasons, as medical school class sizes are small, and I wish to remain anonymous).</p></li>
<li><p>I have my reasons for doing an MS degree, and I am not going to summarize my personal statement on this public forum, so don't push the issue. Admittedly, Stanford is not all that it's hyped up to be, but I don't regret coming here for various reasons.......and it's only for one year. Do I think 4 years of an undergraduate education at Stanford is worth it? No. Ditto for Cornell, but that's just me, and I have been trying to communicate my reasons to cawaiigirl for a few days now....but apparently, my attempts to foster a mature dialogue in this forum is being met by a couple of clowns that think that this is a sporting event of some sort.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Woah, you can write a lot and say very little! Good Job! Want a gold star? Here take one. I like sporting events. Period. Comma. Semicolon.</p>
<ol>
<li>I can say that Berkeley's data proves, without a doubt, that Berkeley has a very bad admissions rate. Period.</li>
<li>Prestige is good. You know you want it. I'd be honored to sniff the sweet aroma of Nobel laureate feces. mmmmm. By the way, people don't care much about how much poo you smell. The reason they associate prestigious universities with prestigious people is because the education they provide is better.</li>
<li>I care if my doctor graduated from Harvard. Lasik is sometimes required for certain professions. I think you belittle his job a little too much. Some people in the military, government jobs, entertainment business, need lasik.</li>
<li>Rankings arn't arbitrary. In fact, they are far more quantitative and objective that your method of finding schools.</li>
<li>Tell the truth.</li>
<li>Tell the truth, really. It's ok.</li>
<li>Come onnn, there's no shame.</li>
</ol>
<p>Period. Comma. Slash.</p>
<p>Sorry if I don't respond for a while. I like to word process my responses and think about them for hours.</p>
<p>I think the issue is that med schools require too much from Berkeley applicants. Since it is known for grade deflation, you figure med schools would cut them a break. But it appears the opposite is true. Even looking at an instate school like UCSF, the avg. stats of Berkeley matriculants (according to the link) is approx. 3.85/35 (higher than the average overall at UCSF). The few people that got accepted to JHU had GPA's of over 3.9 and an MCAT average of 37.5! Overall numbers at JHU is 3.8/35. I just don't understand the disrespect paid towards a good academic institution like Berkeley. It's definitely a cause for concern. </p>
<p>For me, location trumps prestige when it comes to med school. But unfortunately admissions for Californian med schools is extremely competitive because they're all very good (UCLA, UCSD, Stanford, and UCSF are all top 20 schools) so it's very difficult to separate location from prestige. With California admissions as tough as they are, you'll want every advantage you can get.</p>
<p>Cornell's data is not as detailed as Berkeley's but it is more complete. While Berkeley's acceptance rate to med school stands in the high 50's-low 60's generally, Cornell's acceptance rate is around the high 70's-low 80's consistently (15% higher on average). 80% of Cornell applicants with 3.8+ GPA's get into at least one Top 20 school. Last year, more than a quarter of Cornell applicants had 3.8 or above GPA's. Obviously, that doesn't take into account the attrition rate which I assume is pretty high at both schools. Berkeley produced 574 applications last year while Cornell had 456 applications despite Berkeley being nearly twice as large. I would assume, with the number of Asians in the student body, that a greater proportion of Berkeley freshmen start out premed. Clearly, by application time, Cornell has a larger proportion of premeds remaining. So it appears that Berkeley does a much better job of weeding out its students than Cornell. </p>
<p>Just something to think about.</p>
<p>I like the clown that starts an account just to write gibberish and not be accountable for it. "hahahahahahowned", you have ONE post. Come on, are you norcalguy? theslowclap? Nevertheless, I'll entertain your stupidity for one more response, just because you're a charity case.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>You can't compare Berkeley's numbers (with 90% California residents) to Cornell's. It's simple as that. </p></li>
<li><p>If you think "prestigious professors" provide a "better education", you have a lot to learn, my friend.</p></li>
<li><p>You care if your doctor graduated from Harvard because you're naive. Also, do you think the military dishes out money to send pilots to Scott Hyver? IF they do think the person is worth it, they'd send him/her to a military ophthalmologist, and where that doctor went to school ABSOLUTELY doesn't mean anything. Yeah, LASIK docs are important, but they do not deal with serious illnesses like most doctors do....a pair of glasses would suffice for the vast majority of his patients. </p></li>
<li><p>Choosing a school that fits you is a subjective process, and should be a subjective process. That's the point, genius.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>5.,6.,7. Your opinions carrry no value in the real world, and I frankly don't care if you believe me or not. </p>
<p>Sorry if I don't respond for a while. From now on, I have to make sure the person that I am replying to isn't some insecure, bitter troll that was put in its place.</p>