<p>My son wants to pursue a career in finance, probably on Wall Street. He has to chose among the colleges given above, UChicago (Econ), UMichigan (Ross Pre-admit), and Berkeley (Econ).</p>
<p>We are California residents, so Berkeley is much cheaper than the other choices and their Econ fairly strong. On the other hand, Chicago is very expensive but has a world class Econ program and is slightly quirky/geeky. Lastly, UMichigan's Ross BBA with $10k per year scholarship is the medium cost option but not as strong as Chicago's Econ but more focused on business. </p>
<p>Full disclosure, I am a student at Michigan and will be working full-time in banking in the next few months after graduation.</p>
<p>University of Chicago Econ, while admittedly extremely strong, isnāt necessarily a feeder for big bank Wall Street programs. I think thatās more a function of the fact that few UofC Econ majors are interested in investment banking, but I know in my analyst class, there is only one Chicago student and heās working in the regional Chicago office of the bank (which has smaller deal flow/lesser exit opps).</p>
<p>While people hold University of Chicago Econ in very high esteem (and rightfully so), I really think it should be thrown out of the discussion simply because it isnāt a feeder to top Wall Street programs as much as Berkeley-Haas and Michigan-Ross are. It will be an uphill battle for him because the alumni network is lacking relative to the other two, not to mention Econ is a much harder degree, and thus much more difficult to get a top GPA (which is essentially required for a position at a top bank).</p>
<p>The debate should be centered around Berkeley and Michigan. Berkeley looks extremely attractive given that you are in-state, but the fact that he will have to apply to Haas is troubling, especially considering he was a pre-admit to Ross. I was part of the pre-admission program at Michigan, and it was amazing for me. All you have to do is maintain a 3.3 for your freshmen year GPA, and then your GPA is reset as soon as you enter the Ross program your sophomore year. It gives you a nice chance to get acclimated to the college environment and adjust to the rigor of college. </p>
<p>Additionally, I also want to mention the grade inflation at Ross. All of my friends joke about it, but most core classes are curved to a B+ (which counts as a 3.4, instead of the 3.3 norm), and 300-level electives are curved to an A-. Furthermore, A+ grades count as a 4.4, so itās possible to get above a 4.0. Itās kind of ridiculous, but makes getting a high GPA relatively easy. That said, in order to get a Wall Street job (or consulting gig), you need at least a 3.6-3.7 to get interviews. Not sure what Berkeley or Haasās grade inflation/deflation looks like.</p>
<p>Ross and Haas place equally well in my opinion, with the difference between the two being geographic. Ross dominates Chicago/NYC, while Haas absolutely controls the west coast in SF and LA. That isnāt to say you canāt end up on the west coast from Ross, or the east coast from Haas, but where your son wants to end up after graduation should play a key role.</p>
<p>If you are confident in your sonās ability to get into Haas after sophomore year, then I would say definitely take that. It isnāt worth the cost difference at all as Ross and Haas are almost identical in terms of placement. However, the guaranteed admission into Ross is great, and youāll find that the class profile for the preadmits is identical to the average class profile at almost all of the Ivy league schools.</p>
<p>Lastly, you might want to consider the social scene. Michigan has better athletics, better social life (in my opinion - my sister went to Berkeley so I partied up there a few times) though I think this is a result of a marginally weaker student body compared to Berkeley, but absolutely wretched weather. Berkeley weather trumps Ross any day.</p>
<p>I would suggest getting the opinion of a Berkeley student/graduate, because my perspective is obviously colored by my attendance at Michigan.</p>
<p>I donāt get it. Why do so many UM proponents make such outrageous comments? the stud - you seem to be new here, but following in the footsteps of a few other posters who twist every argument to favor UM. Weād all be better off, especially the folks asking for help, if you could be more honest/objective. I know you purport to show both sides of the argument, make some good points and even list weaknesses of UM, but that doesnāt change the fact that - with all due respect - you make some comments that are incorrect and bordering on irresponsible.</p>
<p>Sorry for those harsh words and for what is to come, but I feel the need to shine light on the misinformation (not from you) that is regularly spread on these boards about UM. </p>
<p>Two comments in particular bother me:</p>
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<p>Sorry, but this is just not true. U of C is the most highly regarded of the 3 schools on the street and it is definitely a feeder for Wall Street. If your comment is based on your analyst class please realize that you are working with a small sample size.</p>
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<p>Wow! Really? Hopefully your comment is not overly broad and is just comparing Ross To UCB. Regardless, it is way off base. Ross does not dominate anything on Wall Street in Chicago, NYC or anywhere else. Its a good school with a good alumni network that happens to be really fun as well. Dominate? Iām sure youāre familiar with Harvard. And Princeton. And a lot of other schools that are much better for getting Street interviews than Michigan. Michigan is one of the schools that can open the right doors, but among that group itās in the lower tier.</p>
<p>Sorry CHD, but do you work on Wall Street? Do you have access to the incoming class profile at any of the BBs? I really have no respect for you if youāre going to cherry-pick my arguments. But Iāll bite.</p>
<p>To address a few things:</p>
<p>Nobody is underestimating the academic integrity/strength of University of Chicago. It is a better school than Berkeley or Michigan, flat out. Its Econ department is stronger and much more widely recognized than both of the two aforementioned schools, the average student is probably stronger, and I think itās a tremendous school that is a notch above Michigan or Berkeley. Further I think Berkeley is marginally better than Michigan, too.</p>
<p>As a matter of fact, Booth is a phenomenal graduate school for business, and I think Booth places really well on Wall Street AS A GRADUATE INSTITUTION. But at the undergrad level, it just doesnāt place as well as Ross and Haas. The facts back that up. Since youāre using WSO I, too, will use it. In perhaps the largest sample-size study on WSO of top feeder schools, a user named Bankerella ran an analysis of several top banks to see where the analysts were coming from. At the top of the list? Georgetown. And my own experience agrees with this. After Duke, Georgetown is the most well-represented school at my bank, and then comes Harvard. Here is the rest of her data.</p>
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<p>Do you see that? Michigan at 3-4%, Chicago and Berkeley at 1%. So that means Michigan outplaced Berkeley and Chicago by a factor of 3-4x for NYC BB banks. Where are your facts?</p>
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<p>Where are you getting this information from? You have done nothing to refute my evidence, and are stating facts that are, quite literally, based on your own opinion. Yes, facts based on opinion - theyāre essentially worthless.</p>
<p>Iāll further add my personal experience. I interned over the summer at a different BB than the one I am going to full time. In my entire intern class, there were two U of Chicago kids - one in Chicago and another in SF. There were 6 Ross students (5 NYC, 1 Chicago), and 4 Berkeley kids (donāt remember the offices). At the BB I am going to for full time, again, only 1 Chicago kid. There are two Ross kids, and 3 or 4 Berkeley students. So if you want to talk about my āsmall sample sizeā, Iāve just given you perspective for 2 out of the 8 BBs, 25% of the incoming analyst classes at the 8 largest banks, and there is a grand total of 3 Chicago kids - all in regional offices.</p>
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You are so dense. Of COURSE itās a comparison of Ross and Haas exclusively. What else would I be talking about? This thread is about Ross and Berkeley, why would I pull in extraneous schools that the OPās son wasnāt admitted to?</p>
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Between Ross and Haas, Ross holds the significant edge over Haas in Chicago and NYC, while Haas has a significant edge in SF/LA. So between the two schools, yeah, I feel comfortable using the word dominate.</p>
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Ya think? Thank you captain obvious! Of course Harvard, Wharton, Princeton, Yale, Columbia, Dartmouth, Cornell, Duke, etc. all place a lot better than Ross - BUT THEYāRE NOT PART OF THIS DISCUSSION.</p>
<p>Also, stop it with that ātop targetā, āsecond targetā nonsense - nobody who works on Wall Street uses that garbage. Itās Harvard and Wharton, maybe Princeton and Yale too, and then the rest. </p>
<p>Bankarellaās data is interesting and seems to have validity for some recent period. It does not however indicate any long term trend and Chicago has been placing undergrads in IBās for years.</p>
<p>The ātop target languageā, as indicated, was simply based on the Wall Street Oasis website. I agree with your point, Iāve never used the term in conversation.</p>
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<p>I donāt think one needs to be dense to take this out of context. Its a strong statement lacking any qualifiers. Be careful - that type of inexact speech can cause a lot of trouble for you on the street.</p>
<p>Finally, congrats on being hired into banking. Youāre going to meet a lot of people, many of whom youāll disagree with from time to time - be wary of disrespecting them or calling them ādenseā or ācaptain obviousā and their observations āgarbageā since the street can be a very small place sometimes.</p>
<p>I would just hate to go to Chicago for undergrad. That sounds miserable. If he wants to work in NYC choose Ross and if heās set on staying in Cali go to UCB and study hard to get into Haas. I love Ross and UM, itās a pretty ideal balance of good job placement and a great college experience. Iām going to be a summer analyst on the street this summer and Iād say 85+% of my friends who were also gunning for high finance got placed somewhere. Ross certainly isnāt holding anyone back compared to those other schools and itās a great time.</p>
Going back on my post I can definitely see where youāre coming from, my bad. I have to laugh at the second part of your quote, though ;)</p>
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Duly noted and I apologize for the tone of my post. I was out of line and Iāll keep that in my mind next time I think about hitting āenterā and posting something disrespectful. Hopefully Iāll have a little more tact in the future.</p>