<p>Is Berkeley really that much better than Michigan in the eyes of an employer or graduate school? I'm currently in Berkeley but am planning to transfer to Michigan. Are they peer institutions or is Berkeely better by a little or by a lot? In state for Michigan , OOS for Berkeley but I can afford Berkeley.</p>
<p>I remember your post in the Michigan forums. I know it’s not what you’re asking, but I really don’t see a good reason why you should transfer. The cost savings doesn’t seem to be enough to be worth it and the other reasons you have for transferring don’t seem important. Unless you find that you’re really just unhappy at Berkeley, I would stay there.</p>
<p>I might be biased since I go to Michigan, but I think the difference in prestige between Berkeley and Michigan in IE is negligible. In this field at least, they’re peers.</p>
<p>At least among academics, Berkeley is universally regarded as one of the best universities in the world. They have no weakness, unlike almost all other peer private or public institutions. </p>
<p>Michigan is also very good, but in my view, not at the Berkeley level yet.</p>
<p>Contrary to what eeship said, most academics I know consider the two schools to be practically on par with one another. Both are great schools. You really can’t go wrong academically at either one.</p>
<p>yeah, the U of M and Berkeley are both VERY GOOD schools! However, the truth is in Industrial Engineering, both are peers and both are very well regarded. </p>
<p>In nearly every department, though, Berkeley is slightly “better” and in some cases is much better, but since I am studying IOE and I’m in state for Michigan, I might as well go to Michigan.</p>
<p>Well, just looking at the US News rankings for Mechanical Engineering, Michigan is ranked higher than Berkeley. </p>
<p>I’m not a big fan of their rankings, I’m just saying.</p>
<p>Okay, mechanical, nuclear, and industrial are slightly “better” actually,
ranking higher by one doesn’t matter.</p>
<p>I’m just saying, as an overall institution and engineering school and for the most part, Berkeley has an edge. Michgian, however, has very strong industrial and mechanical departments that are peers with berkeley’s relative choices.</p>
<p>These are both very good schools we’re talking about right here! </p>
<p>The thing is, even though I can afford Berkeley, it is quite a stretch for me and Umich would be much more affordable and less of a burden. </p>
<p>I don’t really care so much about bragging about rankings or schools, I just think Michigan provides me with a very good, practical, affordable education.</p>
<p>Let’s face it, Berkeley Engineering is slightly better than Michigans and Michigan IOE and Mech Eng are peers but every other major is basically lower, especially in the sciences.</p>
<p>Berkeley overall is slightly stronger in nearly every subject (notice, I didn’t say every subject)</p>
<p>Just look at US news science</p>
<p>bio at Berkeley is number 2
bio at umich is in the teens</p>
<p>math at berkeley is number 2
math at umich is number 9</p>
<p>physics at berkeley is number 5
physics at umich is in the teens</p>
<p>etc, etc. </p>
<p>Okay, sure, Umich has majors that are better than Berkeley’s but for the most part, Berkeley is “better” overall by a little bit but I just think Berkeley is too expensive, so I want to know if Berkeley is worth it. Also, I wanted to know whether or not it was worth transferring to michigan or whether or not berkeley engineering really is as strong as the rankings show it to be and whether or not I’d be giving up on a once in a lifetime opportunity to attend berkeley engineering since it’s so selecitve. </p>
<p>I just wnated to know unbiased, honest opinions about the two schools and the objective facts show that for the most part, Berkeley is slightly stronger in many departments compared to umich even though umich is still very good</p>
<p>it’s a very tough decision for me.</p>
<p>sorry for the rant, lol.</p>
<p>To be honest, I really think you have Berkeley up on a pedestal in your mind. When you get to this level, there are minimal differences. Ann Arbor is a top university. A difference between 3 and 6 in the overall engineering program is meaningless. On top of that US News can’t really be used as the bible of better. But if you want to use it to justify your transfer, the information is clearly there.</p>
<p>You are an IE student. Ann Arbor is the better ranked school for your major (which is where you are going in life). AND it removes the burden of cost. It is the smart, obvious, and best choice. It’s not like you are choosing between MIT and and Ann Arbor, you are choosing between two VERY ACADEMICALLY EQUAL schools.</p>
<p>I get it, we all like prestige. I’m an IE student too and I could have went to higher ranked programs than I go to now, but I had a top 10 IE program sitting in my back yard. Why would I pass that up. Once you are in the top ten…your in it. Recruiters know it. They come there. It’s absolutely not hard to get internships, jobs, anything. </p>
<p>The only thing I can say is that you seem like you really want to leave Berkeley for all the right reasons, BUT, you have built them so far up in your mind that you feel foolish leaving such a great institution. The differences you mention are minimal at best. Your just going to have to come to terms with your decision, and do it.</p>
<p>but it’s not just me. Outside of california, Berkeley isn’t as well known, but in California, they go crazy over Berkeley. I have relatives in california who are extremely jealous that I go to Berkeley, that’s why I feel sad to leave such a great institution.</p>
<p>Truth is, MIT>Berkeley>UM-AA>MSU</p>
<p>UM Ann Arbor is a great school, but overall, it really isn’t as great as Berkeley.</p>
<p>Plus, Berkeley’s Industrial Engineering is on the rise. A few years back, it was ranked number 5 and now it’s number 3 meaning it has plenty of potential so surpass Umich’s IOE once the program matures.</p>
<p>Truth is, Berkeley undergrad is a mess and there are a ton of kids in every class, but it’s grad programs are very strong and on par with MIT.</p>
<p>Why I feel Berkeley is so good is because I have had many professors who have gone to schools like MIT, Stanford and the like and from what I’ve heard, UM-AA has much fewer MIT, Stanford, etc graduates and has more UIUC, UM-AA, UT Austin type grads as professors.</p>
<p>So that’s why Berkeley might be underrated simply because I’ve had so many good experiences with the top faculty, but I don’t know if it’s worth paying so much money for it.</p>
<p>My parents want me to stay in Berkeley, but I think it’d be smart to save the money, so I"m really conflicted! </p>
<p>okay, maybe I do put berkeley up on a pedestal, lol, but it’s not without rightful reason because berkeley is good.</p>
<p>it’s one small level up from UM-AA and one small level down from MIT and its engineering school is indeed on par with stanfords or is slightly “worse” than stanfords from what I’ve heard.</p>
<p>I also might want to do a stats minor or chemical engineering minor and that’s why the overall prestige matters.</p>
<p>Berkeley Chem Engineering is number 1 or two and Umich Chem Engineering is in the teens.</p>
<p>Berkeley stats is number 2 while umich stats is in the teens.</p>
<p>As I said before, it’s only IOE and a select few other majors at Umich that are on par or “better” than Berkeley’s. </p>
<p>and money’s really tight right now for me.</p>
<p>You are being remarkably shallow in your assessment of the programs. Just because some relatives in California think Berkeley is the bee’s knees doesn’t meant it is any better than any other school. It’s a wonderful school. It isn’t the best school in existence. For one, there is no objective way to measure that.</p>
<p>Furthermore, saying Berkeley is better because even though it’s ranked lower, it is on the rise is just silliness. All tht means is that it may in the future be “better”, not now. Of course they are both very highly ranked so to an employer or graduate school, it won’t matter a bit which one you attend. Also, saying things like “Berkeley undergrad is a mess” is counterproductive to your argument.</p>
<p>Your professor argument is flawed in several ways. First, it is based on “from what I’ve heard”, which is never a rigorous argument. Do the research yourself, then draw a conclusion. Second, the school a professor graduated from is not a solid indicator of program quality. It roughly indicates how selective a program may be, but not much more, especially given that different schools are strong in and emphasize different research areas within a discipline. If you want a somewhat more objective measure, look at the career achievements of professors such as the number of AIAA, ASME, IEEE, ASCE, etc. fellows and to a larger extent, NAE members. At least that is based on their career, not their pedigree as a student. Even that is really only indicative of the quality of research produced by the department and thus, to a degree, the graduate program. It says nothing about educating undergrads. </p>
<p>Finally, all the schools you mentioned are too schools (save MSU, which is still decent) and if you look at all of them, they all have a mix of professors from all the other schools you mention plus MIT, Stanford, Caltech, Georgia Tech, etc. With the exception of MIT, Stanford and Caltech, those schools are basically all “peer schools” and treat each other as such as evidenced by the large number of faculty that hail from all the other schools. The gap between them and MIT, Stanford and Caltech is smaller than you might think, too (at least by any attempt at objective reasoning).</p>
<p>The simple fact is that Berkeley is a wonderful school. It has many awesome programs. Then again, so does Michigan (and UIUC, Texas, GaTech, etc. for that matter). You will be absolutely fine at any of them, especially Michigan (which is easily the most comparable to Berkeley based on the strength of the rest of the school).</p>
<p>If you want to get so caught up over rankings here are the QS World Rankings that have Michigan at #14 and Berkeley at #21. </p>
<p>[QS</a> World University Rankings - Topuniversities](<a href=“http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2011]QS”>http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2011)</p>
<p>I think you may have been in California too long and forgot that things in the world happen outside of California. </p>
<p>If you think this school is as amazing as you say it is, you are there now, and you can afford it then go there.</p>
<p>Michigan simply does not compare to Berkeley in terms of name-brand value; I know plenty of internationals who regard Berkeley as one of the best, and it goes without saying that those in the US do so as well.
However, if you’re not going into a field that requires prestige (ex: finance, startups), save your money.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t say it doesn’t compare, as I also know many internationals that know Ann Arbor and regard it as a tip top institution as well. But your point regarding branding doesn’t apply in the engineering world, is spot on.</p>
<p>Yeah, qs rankings lol. US news, ARWU, Times magazine more credible sources all say berkeley is better. </p>
<p>ThisIsMichigan-I get Michigan is a great school, but stop with your pride. I hate people like you who love to irrationally state things that aren’t true.</p>
<p>I get Michigan is VERY GOOD, but Berkeley is in fact slightly better and beats michgian in most fields.</p>
<p>It’s hard to explain, but I believe Berkeley is better and this is a fact and people regard it more highly.</p>
<p>When I went to orientation, many students asked me why I was transferring to michigan if I was already in berekely, meaning they knew berkeley was also very well regarded.</p>
<p>I told them finances because I’m tight on money right now though I could afford berkeley, barely though.</p>
<p>US News uses the QS rankings in their “Top World Universities” list. </p>
<p>I think you are looking way too into the rankings here, especially when they are within a few spots of one another.</p>
<p>“Here is Michigan ranked higher” –> “Oh well those ratings aren’t good”
“Michigan is ranked higher in your major” –> “Oh well Berkeley is moving up now”</p>
<p>Dude, if you want yo go to Berkerely so bad, go there.</p>
<p>Most students would ask you why you transfered no matter where you came from. Its orientation, people are meeting other people. Its not like they were all in awe of you being at Cal then coming here…</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>When did I “irrationally state something that wasn’t true”?
Also, you pretty much just described yourself, lol.</p>
<p>Again, if you think Berk is as great as it is, and that much better than Michigam then go there. Last thing we need is some IOE major walking around campus thinking he is too good for all of this and better than everyone else.</p>
<p>Yep, this thread is going nowhere. Why ask for opinions if your recurring rebuttal is “but Berkeley is CLEARLY better”</p>
<p>Also, you might want to tone down the attitude. ThisIsMichigan didn’t make false statements and actually had documentation for his reasoning. You may want to follow that instead of chastising.</p>
<p>Yea let’s just be real here. You’re obviously set on going to berkeley and you’re not gonna let anyone convince you otherwise. Thread=pointless.</p>
<p>but Michigan is in state and cheaper that is why it’s such a hard decision. Money is pretty important. </p>
<p>I can document it
[University</a> of California–Berkeley | Best Science School | US News](<a href=“http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/university-of-california-berkeley-110635]University”>http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/university-of-california-berkeley-110635)</p>
<p>[University</a> of Michigan–Ann Arbor | Best Science School | US News](<a href=“http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/department-of-ecology-and-evolutionary-biology-170976]University”>http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/department-of-ecology-and-evolutionary-biology-170976)</p>
<p>Look at the big difference.</p>
<p>But I do know that for Industrial Engineering, Michigan is the same, if not slightly better than Berkeley. </p>
<p>Berkeley’s industrial engineering was number 5 in 2008 and climbed to number 3, so it might eventually surpass Michigan.</p>
<p>I never said I’d feel like I was better than everybody else.</p>
<p>The girl I met at orientation did look at me in awe, and even the advisor who selected classes for me looked at me in awe because she knew deep down that berkeley was better.</p>
<p>BUT, why I want to transfer to Michigan is money. I’m low on money even though my parents are high income because they blow all of their money on unncessary luxury, etc, and I would like to double major or minor in something else.</p>
<p>If I want 3 more years at Michigan, I could double major and do it. But at Berkeley, I would only have money for 2 more years.</p>
<p>Also, why I am so confused about whether or not I shoudl transfer is because Berkeley’s IEOR program has fewer program requirements so I could graduate in 1.5 more years for a total of 3.5 years of college, but Umich has more requirements, so wouldn’t having more requirements prepare me better for the real world since I’ve had more under my belt?</p>
<p>The point of this thread is, overall, in terms of reputation, Berkeley trumps Michigan, without a question.</p>
<p>But prestige and rankings isn’t everything. I would like to know how useful it actually is. Michigan has more program requirements, so I"d probably get a better education at Michigan, and I’d pay less money, and if I wanted to have a 5th year of college and double major, that option would be open.</p>
<p>Berkeley Engineering I would have 2 more years, or 1.5 more years if I wanted to, fewer required units, so I might not get as strong of an education, but I have that name brand.</p>
<p>[Best</a> Engineering School Rankings | Engineering Program Rankings | US News](<a href=“http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-engineering-schools/eng-rankings]Best”>http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-engineering-schools/eng-rankings)</p>
<p>[University</a> of California–Berkeley | Best Engineering School | US News](<a href=“http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-engineering-schools/college-of-engineering-02021]University”>http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-engineering-schools/college-of-engineering-02021)</p>
<p>[University</a> of Michigan–Ann Arbor | Best Engineering School | US News](<a href=“http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-engineering-schools/college-of-engineering-02088]University”>http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-engineering-schools/college-of-engineering-02088)</p>
<p>from wikipedia
University of Michigan
University rankings
National
ARWU[71] 18
Forbes[72] 57
U.S. News & World Report[73] 28
Washington Monthly[74] 10
Global
ARWU[75] 22
QS[76] 14
U.S. News & World Report[77] 14
Times[78] 18</p>
<p>UC Berkeley
University rankings
National
ARWU[37] 2
Forbes[38] 70
U.S. News & World Report[39] 21
Washington Monthly[40] 3
Global
ARWU[41] 2
QS[42] 21
U.S. News & World Report[43] 21
Times[44] 10</p>
<p>[University</a> of California, Berkeley and University of Michigan Compared](<a href=“http://university.pikimal.com/vs/university-of-california-berkeley/university-of-michigan]University”>http://university.pikimal.com/vs/university-of-california-berkeley/university-of-michigan)</p>
<p>[Compare</a> Colleges: Side-by-side college comparisons | Parchment - College admissions predictions.](<a href=“Compare Colleges: Side-by-side college comparisons | Parchment - College admissions predictions.”>Compare Colleges: Side-by-side college comparisons | Parchment - College admissions predictions.)</p>
<p>I don’t want to argue and as you saw from parchment, most people choose Berkeley over Michigan</p>
<p>but all I want to know is how important prestige is or whether or not it’s that much of a difference, as I’m feeling. </p>
<p>Sorry, ThisIsMichigan, if you misunderstood the intent. </p>
<p>I’m in state for Michigan and 100 kids from my school go to Michigan, while only 1-2 kids from every grade goes to Berkeley and all of those kids from my school who got into Berkeley choose it over Michgian, so that’s why I want to know if I should go against the popular opinion and go to michigan despite the fact that most people who are given the choice choose berkeley.</p>
<p>^ that wikipedia article is also wrong. Michigan is 28 by US News and world report, not 14.</p>
<p>also, there are a ton of Berkeley vs Stanford posts on cc but very few michigan vs stanford posts. The truth is, both are great schools, but Berkeley is even better and is on a level slightly below the ivies while I feel michigan is a small tier below the ivies since I dont’ see many MIchigan vs Stanford forums.</p>
<p>I’ve made these conclusions based on what I’ve seen.</p>
<p>From what I’ve seen on CC, there were Michigan vs Northwestern forums and people said Northwestern was better.</p>
<p>I’ve seen Berkeley vs Northwestern and have had people say they’re similar. By that logic, Berkeley is better.
Similarly, I’ve seen Berkeely vs Cornell and Berkeley vs Upenn on cc and people said they were similar but when I saw such with Michigan vs Cornell, etc, they said the latter was slightly better than Michigan.</p>
<p>But then on Berkeley vs Michgian forums, peopel claim they are similar with a slight edge to Berkeley, so I am confused. Maybe it’s an issue of comparing two public schools vs a public and a private, but I see flawed logic here.</p>