I would go with Berkeley just because it is one of the best schools in the country. A Berkeley degree is very valuable and is likely to be given preference by employers over other non-ivy schools. But then again, I’m a bit biased towards Berkeley coz I intend to go there myself. And I think that the rankings should definitely be given importance cause consistently being ranked among the top 10 is not a joke. Berkeley maybe a bit expensive but it gives quality education which is why it is called a public ivy because its just as good as any ivy only that it is public. In my opinion, it is a no brainer and if I had to choose between Berkeley and anything else I would go with Berkeley in an instant. But then again, that’'s just my opinion. I think you should research your options a bit more, maybe visit Berkeley, look at the programs, talk to current students, if you can do all that in three days that is. Good luck.
I rate Cal highly (it is bigger and more sink-or-swim, but a smart motivated kid can do extremely well there).
However, for you, I think that the flexibility at WashU should be a key consideration. At WashU, you can switch in to any major you want. Not true for engineering at Cal or some other STEM majors, I believe. Also, entrance in to the business school (Haas, which is superb) is competitive.
Furthermore, there would be more hand-holding/excess resources at WashU (which is much richer on a per student basis than Cal). For someone who wants to explore interests, that certainly can be a plus.
Being cheaper doesn’t hurt. Try to visit both if you can.
I saw the data you posted but again, the 8 semester graduation rate is not the same as a 4.5 or 5 year grad rate. Regardless, both Berkeley and Wash U graduate the overwhelming majority of their students in five years or fewer and have few students who drop out or transfer.
To the OP, rankings are often overhyped for undergraduate work, particularly since they are mainly based on research output which is important for a graduate student but not nearly as much for an undergrad. The example I usually give is that Amherst is one of the finest schools in the country. Many of its programs offer outstanding rigor, incredibly deep resources, and extremely engaged professors. Yet it is not ranked for any field of study. There are many larger universities where this is true as well. Wash U for instance offers a superb education in political science even if its rankings are substantially lower than Berkeley’s.
Stop focusing on the rankings, especially since you’re an undecided student, and look at other factors.
I don’t understand why everybody is saying that Berkeley’s name recognition will instantly get this kid a job- WUSTL and Berkeley are peer schools. Your grandma might not know what WUSTL is, but employers will know what it is and will not give preference to a Berkeley kid over a WUSTL kid. There really just isn’t that big of a difference. Rankings are very arbitrary, but if you’re going to cite them, Berkeley’s rank (20 on US News overall, although it is 1st for public universities) is actually lower than WUSTL’s (14 on US News) for undergrad. People assume it is ranked higher because it is a huge school with world-famous grad programs. This does not mean that you will get a better undergraduate education.
You will likely be unable to transfer into engineering at Berkeley even if you’re at the top of your class. If it’s a major consideration for you, I wouldn’t hesitate to go to WUSTL.
^ Because some people think UCB owns Silicon Valley. No, it does not.
I agree with Qwerty. I really don’t understand this “Berkeley has so much more prestige and will get you more jobs” argument because it’s just false. They are peer schools. They might have slightly different amounts of prestige in different parts of the country, but legitimate employers know and respect both of them. Go with the one that fits you better.
^^ I agree. I think if any school “owns” Silicon Valley, it’s Stanford.
All things considered, I say Berkeley. They wanted you in the first place.
@coolweather & @Homeless2Princeton, eh. Not sure if Cal “owns” Silicon Valley, but it is heavily represented there. Few schools do better in the Valley (and sure, you can certainly make the case that Stanford is one of them).
Sure. All Bay area schools have more graduates employed in SV. But only some percentage of them are employed by top employers in top positions. Some people say Google hires more San Jose State U graduates than Stanford graduates. This could be true in the total number but not in the top paid positions. Top employers recruite at top schools in the nation. College graduates with good academic achievement and training from any college can pack and move to SV to settle there. All they need is to have the courage to move. That’s what people from India do. Many local companies don’t have resource to recruite nationwide but they are happy to talk to peoplen who already reside in SV.
@coolweather, that’s definitely not true regarding Google. You can use LinkedIn’s search feature if you are interested. That may be true for Apple.
I never like LinkedIn and don’t have an account.
I used Monsters to find jobs more than 10 years ago. I disabled it later because head hunters keep calling me.
IMO its a no-brainer for WUSTL:
“Academically, Berkeley is the strongest school in the US… I looked major by major on US News”:
While berkeley is great, I would disagree- most of these are grad school rankings. For non-CS, I think WUSTL will give you a much better quality education.
If you do end up pursuing CS, your job placement will depend more on how good of a programmer you are then what school you went to. Also a cautionary note- many people at Cal LNS try to pursue the CS route but get weeded out due to sub par grades in the pre-reqs. A majority of the people who make it on to declare tend to be hard core CS lovers. From anecdotal experience, many of my friends who went to Cal that weren’t sure about what they wanted to do and “tried out” CS and did the prereqs but thought it was too hard and didn’t end up majoring in it.
Plus there is a lot of cool biotech stuff happening right now which WUSTL is pretty good at.
This would be a difficult choice if both universities had the same cost, but if you are getting a free education at a great private school, you should pounce on the opportunity.
WUSTL gives full ride scholarships to kids that get off the waitlist? Wow, did not know that. OP, it seems you want to go to Berkeley otherwise I think you would have jumped at the full ride at WUSTL. You will be fine at Berkeley.
^ From waitlist to full ride! Something really significant must have happened. It is unheard of.
OP, I guess if you are a highly motivated, goal driven and hard working student who does not need much hand-holding, Berkeley should be an excellent choice. At the end of the day, both are awesome schools, you will not go wrong with either one.
@truefalse & @goingnutsmom: Well, we don’t know how much of the full-ride is fin aid.
Choose WUSTL. It’s more prestigious, it’s smaller, so you would get more attention from professors, and best of all, it’s free! Berkeley is not worth $36,000 more than WUSTL.
Prestige is in the eye of the beholder, but WashU definitely is richer and can lavish more resources on its students than Cal.
My understanding is you will run into many headaches at Cal trying to get into classes. Many courses are overbooked and most students have to go to summer school every year to graduate on time (or so I am told by current students). At the very least, if that’s your pick, I would try to call current students to find out if there has been a major issue for them. My suggestion is to go with Wash U – I have heard wonderful things from students who went there, and I think you’ll find that at the Undergrad level its programs are at least as good as Berkeley’s (from what I have heard).
I chose Berkeley. The main thing that was pulling me towards WU was the academic flexibility. I realized, however, that Berkeley is pretty flexible as well after calling their office. The average Berkeley student actually switches majors 5 times. Stronger academics, better social scene, better weather, and closeness to home along with strong advising from the EOP (at least as strong as WU advising) led me to choose Berkeley. Berkeley is slightly more expensive for me, but I think it’s worth it.
Thanks for the help!