Berklee College of Music for Pop Vocalist hopeful?

College Majors Music Major
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<p>A number of you mentioned Berklee College of Music as a possibilty for my D. who plans to pursue a pop career (yes we are still doing a demo - finished song selection recently and a photo shoot but lots more to do -photo shoot was amazing btw I had no idea she was so relaxed and comfy in front of a camera and had angles and shots all planned out)</p>

<p>Anyway out of curiousity I looked it up and the admission requirements are pretty low, ie it looks like they take anyone. She is a smart cookie so I wonder if this would be challenging enough if we go that route.</p>

<p>Also her one music teacher says hardly anyone graduates there..they go for a bit and then take off and join a band?</p>

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<p>I was one of the people who suggested Berklee College of Music for your daughter when you were looking for college programs with a focus on contemporary or pop music, rather than musical theater. </p>

<p>Your observation that the academic qualifications for admittance into Berklee are low, do not surprise me (although I have not ever researched Berklee though know a student here very well who was recently admitted). This does not differ a whole lot from how it works for BFA degree programs in musical theater either. For many of the programs my daughter is applying to, the academic bar is not that high. However, the majority of the decision on admittance lies in the artistic review or audition. The student must pass academic review and apply and do all the essays and transcript and all that jazz, but the level for that aspect is not so high. The admit rate at my daughter's programs however, varies between 5-10%! So, while it is not that hard to get in on the academic end, it is extremely difficult to get in on the artistic end. For instance, if someone heard my D is applying to Penn State or Ithaca (she is), and knew what a good student she is, they might tell me, of course she will get in. But little do they know that to get into the BFA program, the selectivity rivals the Ivy League. So, I imagine Berklee might not be all that different. When you are studying in a conservatory style program, the emphasis is on the professional training, so the academics matter only up to a certain level, in terms of being admitted. </p>

<p>However, the exception, at least for Musical Theater BFA programs, are that there are some colleges where the academic admissions review is way higher. For instance, at NYU/Tisch, one of my D's first choices, academic review accounts for 50% of admissions and is at the selectivity level of a more difficult college academically. As well, with UMich, where my D is also applying, the student must "pass" academic review for admittance to UM, and be invited to audition. These schools have high academic standards. But for most of the other programs, the academic end is not weighed as heavily in admissions and the bar is not that high even so. For Carnegie Mellon, the artistic review counts 90%! Even so, the applicant still has to do the whole college application bit like any other applicant. </p>

<p>If you want your daughter to have a more selective academic program, you would have to consider a school perhaps with a BM in music in a liberal arts setting. If you want a more conservatory style training, then the artistic review is going to be the major component of admissions at most programs (save a few like NYU or UM). So, your D has to decide just what type of educational program she may want. I have to add that even when academic qualifications are not that stringent for some BFA programs, often the kids going into the field can be very strong academic students besides. I find that to be the case. The student heading to Berklee is a bright boy from our school, but is very into voice. In my own house, my D going for the BFA degree is a very good student. She chuckled today as she received unsolicited applications from Princeton and Harvard (likely due to her SAT scores) and there is no way she would consider applying, due to her career intentions. But she is not the only good student I know who is opting for a BFA degree. So, my guess is your child could be among very bright kids even at Berklee, kids who have chosen this type of training, but are smart enough to get into more demanding academic style colleges. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>As you have discovered, Berklee is very specialized - probably not what most people would call a "normal" college experience. Have you looked at University of Miami, USC, Loyola Marymount, Belmont University in Nashville? All are in areas that have a very vibrant music community but offer a more "academic" experience. At Berklee she will live music 24/7, as will everyone else around her. If this is what she is looking for, Berklee may be the answer.</p>

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<p>What do you all think of Syracruse as an option?</p>

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<p>Angst, it all depends what you are looking for. My daughter is applying to Syracuse for their well regarded BFA program in Musical Theater. I have no idea if they have any programs in contemporary voice. </p>

<p>This goes back to an earlier discussion....if your daughter wants to pursue a BM or a BFA degree in vocal performance, a musical theater degree, or just what. Once you make THAT decision, then you have to decide what type of learning environment you want. For instance, there are conservatory style schools where everyone there is in the performing arts and you do that 24/7. Or there are BFA degree programs in a larger university (my D's choice) where you still have conservatory training the majority of the time but there is a liberal arts component (which varies from school to school....ie., is greater at UMich and NYU than at Carnegie Mellon), and not everyone attending the larger university is there for performing arts. It is like a small conservatory in a larger whole. Next week we are visiting Boston Conservatory. If my D were to attend there, it would be completely different than if she were to attend NYU in this very way. </p>

<p>Your D must figure out which type of degree focus she wants, then find the educational environment that suits her preferences. </p>

<p>I am not sure what degree you are talking of at Syracuse. For MT, it is well regarded. I am not up on their offerings for vocal performance or pop music. I do not think too many schools deal with contemporary music training and in fact, Berklee is one of the best for that. As discussed before, I do not think a MT program is a good fit for your daughter. Anyone going into that must want to really go into musical theater, not pop. It involves being a triple threat with voice, dance, and acting, to equal degrees. Another option for your daughter is to get a BM or a BFA in vocal performance but that will involve some classical voice training which you have said she is not too interested in. </p>

<p>So, it is hard to advise you unless your D picks which focus she wants to go for. If you research contemporary vocal training, Berklee is going to pop up. Not sure what else but that one is one of the best for that field. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>I don't know anything about Berklee, but wanted to relate a story. A boy from our school is a sophomore there. He was in the gifted program through elementary, really high scores on yearly state exams, straight A's, etc. He discovered hard rock music and became consumed with his guitar. He ended up graduating with B's and C's (mostly C's), average test scores, and no EC's except jazz band, and his own garage bands. When I read your post it occurred to me that there may be a number of very smart and very talented kids there, who are focused on music rather than academics. He and his parents are happy with his experience so far.</p>

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<p>I second what Over30 wrote. As I know numerous kids/peers of my D's who are pursuing BFA degrees, most of them ALSO happen to be excellent students in their own right and could get into very challenging colleges, had they chosen to go for liberal arts. My own daughter is among such a profile of kids. I think you will find in many of these professional training programs, a motivated and bright student body. And in fact, the kid I know who has deferred his entrance this year to Berklee is indeed a very good student. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>My husband graduated from Berklee in 1982. You are correct that the school is not very academically chalenging and that many do not graduate. The best musicians go there to make contacts and if they land a good paying gig they leave. If your daughter is serious about trying to make a living as a musician, the school is wonderful. The kids are serious about playing and she will have the opportunity meet lots of professionals. Although the academics are important they are not most students priority.</p>

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<p>Thanks all. When I saw they took almost everyone who applies I thought hmmm.
This will be a learning year for us. I just picked up the photo shoot photos and they are incredible.She is working on her songs now so we should record them in a few weeks and start pulling all the stuff together and send it round.
Then we will have more of an idea of her future focus when we see the response.</p>

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<p>Berklee's music programs are very challenging. They really don't have an "academic" component. If you are looking for academic challenges, Berklee is not the place. There are many audition opportunities at Berklee with big bands, and other groups. I heard a quip once "what do you call a failure at Berklee?"......Answer "someone who graduates with a four year degree". This was said because so many very fine musicians go on to perform (before graduation) in groups that audition at Berklee. However, I feel this is rather an unkind statement. There are many talented musicians at Berklee who DO graduate. I should add that Berklee is considered a conservatory type of program. Most conservatories look at talent first....academics are secondary (if they are considered at all).</p>

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<p>Thanks for your observations all. I am so glad for all the knowledge I pick up on this board!
We are strongly considering a summer program at Berklee for her next summer.
Since she definately wants a pop career, we will seriously consider it.</p>

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<p>My brother attended Berklee and I know several fairly well-known jazz musicians who teach there.</p>

<p>It basically has no academic program. It is full-time training for professional musicians. Music theory, composition, jazz ensembles, instrument training, etc. </p>

<p>It is heavily jazz and jazz-rock oriented. I think they have a fairly recent songwriting program, but it is not really a "pop" music program. Berklee tends to attract and produce instrmentalists -- drums, keyboards, guitar, etc.</p>

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<p>I think a summer program will give you a very good idea of what to expect. They also audition for scholarships during the programs. Son did Berklee in LA several years ago, the 24/7 was what made him decide on a music performance major. He also wanted the college/academic life and did not apply to Berklee when it was time to chose colleges. He is working his tail off, learning lots, meeting lots of people and is deliriously happy. </p>

<p>We had sent him to Berklee in LA because we knew he liked music but we didn't know if he really loved it. Thought the 24/7 would be too much-it wasn't. He has a friend there who might struggle at a local community college academically but is thriving with his music at Berklee.</p>

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<p>What is Berklee in LA? I thought Berklee was in MA?</p>

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<p>Sorry for not explaining. Berklee in LA is a one week summer program. When son went it was at CMC-son loved the campus. Last 2(?) yrs it has been at Fullerton College (a CC) and the students stay in a local hotel. Fullerton also has an agreement where students can spend the first 2 yrs at Fullerton college and then transfer to Berklee. Fullerton is short drive north of Anaheim/Disneyland. </p>

<p>When son went they get to pick the type of music they want to perform. They are put in classes based on that and are also put in a performance group. At the end the group performs. The vocalist in son's group got a nice scholarship-not full for her, but they let you audition for more at other places and you can build them up.
LA</p>

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<p>Does anyone have experience with the Berklee summer songwriting workshop?</p>

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<p>I have a student who went to Berklee for songwriting. It's a total mess there. Thousands of students running around. Lot's of drugs, low standards, VERY expensive. Berklee can be a good school if you get in the right circle. However, it has become a money pit for green high school kids, many of which are not serious musicians. Berklee can work for you if you want it to, but be VERY CAREFUL...</p>

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<p>Hey, when my cousin's kid went there years ago I was disappointed to realize it wasn't Berkeley, CA, because I'd never heard of it. Guess it worked for him, though, he later founded CD Baby and was profiled in GQ Magazine or somesuch.</p>

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<p>Thats interesting Stonewall...we were considering the 5 week summer program there for next year. Wonder if that has the same issues.
When you say you have a student that went there are you a teacher?
Where did you learn about these types of problems?</p>

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<p>I personally took the course/program 5 years ago and this year (a few weeks ago) my son took the 5 day program. If you want to be surrounded by musicians 24/7 and experience a shot in the arm from an ego point of view take this course. </p>

<p>The drawbacks to the course is that the instructors are older and therefore not totally up to snuff on the more modern techniques to POP songwriting. This probably explains (although I am not sure) why a John Mayer and several others never graduated from Berklee. They got the shot in the arm from being in the Berklee environment and moved on. I believe Diana Krall, Al DiMeola ,Nino Bettencourt and other famous musicians did the same also.</p>

<p>The positives are: They teach the basic song structure,common underlying themes(as nothing is really new under the sun in music, it is just that anyone under 25 thinks their favorite artists are original and talented) are taught in this course. Some of the professors have an attitude that Pop music is trash and they are the only real musicians. This is ok if you are a technical instrumentalist,but if your goal is to be famous,learn how to write Pop songs and break into the business then Berklee is just one of the many courses or schools that you might want to study with....For the money the course is worth it. You stay in the dorms meet other talented musicians of all ages(although the majority are 18-25 years old and get your songs critiqued by slighty below the radar screen musicians. This year Ellis Paul handled workshops....they rarely get any big names to come in to speak to teh students.but in my book Ellis is ok with me. The year I went a rep from Bug Music and Marshall Crenshaw appeared (songwriter from the 70's).SO for the 850.00 they charge for the 5 days I would give it a "B+".it is worthwhile..</p>