Southern schools that MIGHT still be possible merit-wise: USC Aiken, U Montevallo (AL), U Southern Mississippi, U Arkansas Monticello, Loyola New Orleans, Midwestern University TX, Millsaps (MI), UWF, UMW, Longwood, Kennesaw State, Georgia College, Coastal Carolina.
South-ish: Shepherd University (WV), Marshall University (WV), Truman State (MO).
(Look for the merit page. The thresholds for merit change all the time - some have automatic scholarships, and competitive scholarships on top of that.)
@bester1 and @kidzncatz Have you looked more carefully at the actual costs for WC? I was on their site doing actual breakdowns for room and board look different. This is what was posted earlier:
Tuition/Fees = $9,144
Room/Board = $12,694
Books/Supplies = $1,200
Estimated other = $2,958
Total = $25,996
Grant= $1,500
Net Price = $24,496
When I calculate online, the Room and Board (with a 14 meal plan plus Flex $$ and a lower cost dorm) could be as low as $7530. Remove “other” expenses and even including books, we are down to 19K per year. My D is a vegan and no way she is going for the huge meal plan. If you are smart about book shopping, and could be even less.
I understand all of the differences, and this has been discussed before, but these seemingly small differences can add up. In fact for us 26K and 19K is the difference between taking the federal loan or maybe not.
Yes, I have been saying that I don’t use COA for comparison, since every school uses different amounts of estimated “other expenses”. Just the items the school bills for. Of course you should budget for books and supplies, but they will be similar at all schools. Yes, and the room/board expenses will vary with options chosen.
My D has rented books on Amazon, some she bought because she had to get the online access code and the new book was only a little more than the used one plus access code.
@mommdc could you estimate what her actual average book bill has been, with discount shopping and renting? I am a nerd about this stuff.
Also, small schools generally do not have the same number of room and board options.
@Portercat Yes, I’m well aware that West Chester can be much less expensive with the older dorms and cheaper meal plan. That’s why I’ve been trying to convince my daughter to tolerate the spartan older dorms for at least the first year, so that she doesn’t have to take out loans. She may have to upgrade on or off campus after freshman year, but could at least save money for one year.
My D took chem, bio and foreign language first and second semester freshman year. She bought two new books and rented one for two semesters. It was about $600 total
This year she took ochem, stats, psychology, ASL and foreign language. She bough one book used, rented a few, bought one new. About $500 total
We qualify for AOTC and book expenses are qualified expenses for the credit.
Some professors help the kids out, let them use older editions of textbooks, it depends on the major too.
Sorry, what’s AOTC?
And how bad are the “old” dorms vs the new dorms?
AOTC stands for the American Opportunity Tax Credit
I can’t help you with the dorms.
The biggest problem with “books” is often the codes the kids have to buy. Last semester DS would have spent $140 for his books for the semester, but had to purchase a code for one class, $120.
For Temple, when they still had the automatic full tuition merit awards, remaining costs would have been around $13K-$14K for room & board, travel, books, etc. However, I was looking at the suite style as he really didn’t want to go to Temple. I made him apply anyway, but he was adamant he wasn’t going to Temple, no how, no way. The program really wasn’t nearly as good there as at University of Alabama, but it would have been nice to have him closer. Youngest doesn’t want to go that far, no flying, and she doesn’t drive, nor does she want to learn. Ugh.
https://www.irs.gov/uac/american-opportunity-tax-credit-questions-and-answers
^AOTC information/FAQ
I don’t think the old dorms rooms at WC are bad, but we didn’t get a good look at the bathrooms which I have heard are questionable (could be rumor?). I hope to see the bathrooms on the next tour, if possible. The room itself seemed pretty similar to most smaller schools; painted cinder block walls. The lobbies seemed old and dingy and some of the exteriors of the buildings were flat out ugly but not sure that really matters.
The new dorms are very nice with bathrooms in each room and regular drywall walls, and central air. Very nice lobbies and as mentioned before; kitchens in the lobbies, entertainment rooms, and movies theaters on some floors. Probably not worth the extra costs though.
@laralei Do you fly him home for breaks from Alabama? I assume you are in PA?
Most freshman housing at my D’s school is double rooms with communal bathroom. The one that is suit-style with a double room and shared bathroom (with adjacent room) have the trade-off that they have to clean their own bathroom.
Well, let’s just say, only two girls (my D and roommate) ever cleaned the bathroom.
Is this at Pitt, @mommdc?
Yes
@Portercat, We drove down and back 3 times, and flew him home three times that first year to well over $3K! I was not expecting that at all. Good thing for credit cards.
The dorm he chose closes for Xmas and spring breaks, so he has had to leave campus. He is moving off campus for jr and sr year, so he won’t have to leave, though I’m sure he will still want to come home for the holidays to see his local friends, none of whom are very far from home. Yes, we are in PA.
With the full tuition & engineering scholarships, we still have a great deal at Bama, but he did take out the full federal loans to offset the costs of the housing.
As I stated here (?), he is studying electrical engineering which isn’t even offered at any of our “true” state schools, so they weren’t even a consideration for him. I expect him to have loans for no more than the fed student loans. He could have kept them down as well, but his friends are not as limited by finances, and he wanted to room with them off campus, so he was willing to take on that debt. If he does a co-op, any left over funds he could use to limit loans in the future.
It was hard with him because we were sweating out the ACT score. With our youngest, I have no expectations of her even coming close to those kinds of scholarships. At this point even the PASSHE schools are not affordable. I need final costs to come in under $4K for us. Will see how she tests, first one in March.
Interesting article on the PASSHE deficit. I found this section the most telling. It seems as if they already determined the firm that will do the study and what the recommendations will be…and I thought that PASSHE was a public system and that the sunshine laws require disclosure?
http://triblive.com/local/westmoreland/11891735-74/state-system-universities
"State System spokesman Kenn Marshall said officials are reviewing proposals from consultants who responded to a call to gather data and analyze issues including the number and location of universities, programs and personnel necessary to meet the mission of providing “high quality education to students at the lowest possible cost to students.”
Citing exemptions in the state’s Right to Know law, Marshall declined to identify the consultants who submitted proposals."
Statement from the Chair of the Board of Governors to support our state universities:
@Portercat …thank you for posting but I can’t open it. Can you provide any details?
Big thinking for our State System of Higher Education
Recognize the opportunities ahead
February 7, 2017 12:00 AM
By Cynthia D. Shapira
Pennsylvania’s State System of Higher Education comprises 14 universities dedicated to the mission of providing an affordable, accessible, high-quality education to the residents of our commonwealth. By its very nature — and by design — this mission simultaneously is both inspirational and aspirational.
The question becomes: How do we as a system ensure that we continuously, honestly examine ourselves to identify and achieve excellence that results in a real value proposition to our stakeholders? And consider the context: Like so many other state systems and universities across the country, we find ourselves dealing with issues that include lagging state funding, declining enrollment, market changes, and increased operating costs.
Our overarching message is that the State System universities have been around for well over a century — some, considerably longer — and have served Pennsylvania’s students throughout this time by 1) preparing them for success throughout their lives — teaching them to think, to reason, and to care about their communities, and 2) providing them with the education, skills, and guidance to succeed in their future career pathways or continued studies. It is the ability to do both that makes public universities — our universities — essential to Pennsylvania’s future.
The truth, as we all know, is that our system now faces economic challenges. We are so appreciative that the governor and the General Assembly have recognized the immense value of the State System and support it. Our universities are an investment that pays huge dividends for all. Every $1 in state support for the State System generates $11 in economic activity across Pennsylvania. That’s an annual impact of nearly $7 billion — on average, about $310 million per university. While our students are our top priority, it is clear that our universities benefit everyone.
This is why we ask, respectfully, that this investment in our Pennsylvania youth and emerging workforce continues. But we as a system have to do our part, as well. So, while we make this case for investment in our commonwealth’s future, we promise that this investment will be met with our own commitment to excellence.
We are embarking on an initiative to review our organization and operations from top to bottom for the purpose of positioning the State System and its universities for long-term sustainability and a vibrant future. At the same time, we are working to ensure that our array of academic programs aligns with the needs of our regions and the entire commonwealth. In fact, we have completed a series of studies over the past two years that clearly identify the types of skill sets employers are demanding. Our strategic review will augment those findings and support the universities in planning for the future.
We ask that all who care about our students and the future of public higher education in the commonwealth join us with open minds and hearts in this endeavor. Exactly what form changes will take is an open question, as it must be. We all must be willing to consider every possibility, with the ultimate goal of strengthening our system to meet its mission long into the future.
This means that we “keep our eyes on the prize”; that we reach out to all stakeholders, including our enormously talented and caring faculty, staff, university trustees, students, parents, alumni, lawmakers and others in this effort. We all share the same vision, so let’s work together to be successful.
Now is the time for “big thinking.” Let’s embrace our challenges as opportunities to shape the future for Pennsylvania.
Cynthia D. Shapira is chair of the Board of Governors of the Pennsylvania State System of Higher Education