Hello everyone,
Well I’m at that crossroads where I need to make a decision about what I should start moving towards as it relates to a degree, so I figured I’d get y’all’s input. So, my situation is a little bit of a complex one. Here goes:
I am a senior in HS, and have been accepted to both MIT and Texas A&M, and will be going (most likely to TAMU) on an Air Force ROTC Scholarship, meaning I have a career in the Air Force ahead of me. I thought that was a great idea so I could get work experience and move into higher level positions faster relative to the civilian world, as AF is technically focused. My dream job outside of this is nuclear fusion research, just because of how impactful this technology would be once fully developed. I initially wanted to go with nuclear engineering because I found nuclear physics to be interesting in my AP coursework and in general, but the versatility of my degree is very important to me, just so I have very good options for plans B and C. Therefore, I’m looking at EE for the versatility plus application to fusion. The problem is I’m not interested in programming or computer related topics all that much. Also, I have been successful and have a good grasp of AP Physics C E&M, but it’s less interesting to me than nuclear physics. I realize a HS course is a joke compared to college, but it’s the closest thing to experience I have at this time. Also, EE incorporates a lot of programming and digital systems design, which I couldn’t care less about. So, I’m looking for alternatives for undergrad. As I’ve said, versatility is important, so I don’t really want a straight science major (e.g physics), because from what I understand I will end up as one of a few top flight researchers, a professor (which I want to avoid) or be in a realm that engineers are better prepared for. Physics I plan to get some coursework done in, maybe a minor, but I am not sure.
So the question is this: is there a better undergrad path for me to take for what I want to do in life? Maybe MechE?
What you want to do is find a good major that interests you and the military will assign you a job. Everything else you do will build on that. Right now, that path is unknown right now, so there’s no sense in worrying about it. Just get a good education and get your commission.
A physics major does not automatically force you to being a professor or a researcher. From physics it is pretty straightforward to go into nuclear engineering for a Masters. Lots of people who start in physics work in applied fields such as engineering where many companies appreciate the breadth that a physics degree provides.
Aggie EE checking in. Little curious why you would choose TAMU over MIT.
I think AP Physics C is a little tougher than you’re giving it credit for as well. I took both in high school, they kicked my ass but I got through the AP test with 4s. Being stupid, I listened to my advisors and retook E&M physics at TAMU. It was the exact, same, class as the high school AP course. Same textbook. Same style of test problems. I even recognized one or two homework problems that both classes used.
I’m in the final semester of undergrad, and looking back on it, physics E&M was probably one of the top five hardest classes I took, relative to my knowledge when I took it. There are lots of classes that take more work than Physics C/PHYS 208, but academically, few are more difficult. If you can make it through that, you can make it through undergrad engineering no problem.
As far as nuclear and EE - nothing on the degree plan comes close to nuclear physics. The closest we got was a device physics class where we talked about electron levels and band gaps. If you want to work with fusion, that means grad school, and undergrad EE would likely leave you needing some leveling courses. It’s still doable, but it’s not necessarily the best route from point A to point B. A minor would probably help with
Digital systems work, there is a bit of that (ECEN 350 is notorious - you build a simple processor in a Verilog model in that class), but there is very little programming involved. There is one intro C++ class required on the degree plan (and it’s one of the most useful classes in the entire college of engineering as far as I’m concerned), and the new freshman engineering intro class is going to cover Python. But after sophomore year, it’s just a bit of Verilog here, a bit of Matlab there. It’s not programming intensive at all.
You’re absolutely right, but it’s worth mentioning that EE and nuke are two of the least popular majors chosen. Even if OP can’t make a 3.5, he’d have little trouble getting a seat in either one.
The GPA shouldn’t be much of a problem. It’s high school, I know, but FWIW I’m graduating as valedictorian. I chose TAMU because they just flooded me with scholarships, compared to MIT where I would have to go on an Army ROTC Scholarship. Considering the Army would put me in either a civil engineering or EOD job, I think the AF is by far the better career choice for me. At TAMU I would also have the Corps, be a Brown Scholar, have the honors program through which I can accumulate a lot of research hours, etc. As far as I can tell, the main benefit one gets from going to a top flight research institution like MIT comes from graduate research. Other than that, it’s just prestige, a harder work load, bad climate, rough city and a lower GPA that I would get by going there. I don’t think I would particularly enjoy the social environment there either.
Thanks for telling me not to retake APC, was likely going to make that mistake at registration because I just skimmed my way through physics this year, but never had very much trouble with it. Don’t think I’ve fully completed a HW assignment all year.
I have pretty much zero background with programming. How should I prepare this summer?
I also plan to take as much physics as possible, just not have it as my major, regardless of what engineering route I go.
Sure, many physicists may do that but I would rather be grounded more in the practical (engineering) than the theory (physics). The statistics show that dead-ending as a prof is more common among physicists as well.
Definitely plan to go to grad school. MS in business would help me with the corporate side of things, and only takes a year, but I would also have to get another degree in a more specific science. I think getting certified as a PE is what I’ll focus on before that though.
These are all wonderful personal reasons to choose TAMU over MIT (which honestly gets middling reviews as an undergraduate institution in my experience).
These reasons are much more of a mixed bag. Prestige can be helpful, though at the undergraduate engineering level it is largely unimportant. The climate in Boston/Cambridge certainly could leave some to be desired, but rough city? This sounds like the opinion of someone who has never actually visited. Boston/Cambridge are very nice places, especially in the neighborhoods you’d be frequenting. In the opinion of most people, they are both dramatically nicer than College Station. As for the social environment, that’s entirely a personal matter.
Rough wasn’t good word choice on my part. Let’s just say I do not like the area, and leave it at that. You are correct, prestige helps, which is why I plan to go to one of the more prestigious universities (MIT, Stanford, etc) for graduate school if possible. They are really known for their research opportunities, which come mostly in graduate school. As for A&M, like I said I will have access to far more opportunities (research, internship, and otherwise) as well as their postgraduate networking, which stands in for what they lack in prestige fairly well.
If I am incorrect in any of my statements, then please, let me know. I’m here to learn.
What do most mechanical engineers do? And is an MS in business a sound strategy to help me out in the corporate world?
The name of the grad school isn’t as important as the person and program you’ll be working with, assuming you aren’t doing a course only MS like Stanford offers. You might find that Wisconsin or even TAMU might be the very best program for what you want. That, though, is getting the cart a bit ahead of the horse.
As for the business degree, most here will tell you that in the beginning at least, it’s counter productive. Managers need to be engineers first. Your early MBA will signal that you aren’t interested in engineering. Wait until you have experience under your belt and decide whether or not you even want to manage. It isn’t the only way up the food chain. Then, if you do, let your company pay for it.
Lastly, props to you for understanding what you want your undergraduate experience to be like, and not simply glomming onto the rankings. My son, like you, had no interest in MIT, or any other school like it (Caltech, etc.). He wanted a solid program, but a more classic college experience. He had some other things that were important to him too (smaller classes, no pre-engineering, good facilities, location preferences, etc.), but the important thing is, what is important to an individual is all that SHOULD matter. Good on ya!
That’s fair if you simply aren’t a fan of Boston and the surrounding area. It’s not for everyone. I just wanted to make clear that it’s a remarkably safe city and most consider it to be a truly nice place. To each there own, of course.
Regarding the role of prestige in college selection, I think you seem to have a better grasp of this than most high school students, which is refreshing. That said, I have a couple comments.
It is true that a lot of these programs have built their reputations through their graduate programs. That said, there are a few things about choosing a graduate program of which you should be aware. First, you should not go into your undergraduate studies assuming you will ever pursue a graduate degree. Select a school and degree program that you think could lead to a career you like with only a BS. Most students never sniff graduate school, including many who are convinced they will eventually pursue that route at the time they start their BS program. If, in year 3 or so, you are still very interested, then start considering school options more carefully.
Second, selecting a graduate program is very different from selecting an undergraduate program. Prestige can matter in some circumstances, but usually it only matters indirectly. Far more important is the research opportunities available in a given department. If the research fit is a poor one, then it doesn’t matter what name is on the degree, it isn’t the right school for you. The flip side is that the highly prestigious programs tend to have a greater proportion of their research groups that would be considered very good, but there are tons of great programs at the non-MITs/Stanfords/Caltechs of the world that may be a better fit for a given student. Shoot, in my research area, MIT is ranked highly for the overall department (aerospace) but does absolutely no research in my area of interest. The same thing goes for Stanford and (to a lesser degree) Caltech.
The bottom line is that you should make a much more personal decision about graduate school and do so only when you are far enough along in your BS program to make that an informed decision.
The reason I’m looking at graduate school so early is because I know I’ll be able to attend before I commission. The way I typically do things is get a very general idea first, then narrow it down into specifics as I go along. You are absolutely right though, I cannot make an accurate assessment nor decision until at least my junior year in college, when I’ve seen enough of the course material.
Would getting two different MSs make any sense? One in business, one in engineering perhaps?
Plenty of people get an MS in engineering and later an MBA or an MS in engineering management. You absolutely do not want that business degree until you have actual experience in industry, though, or you’ll likely never get hired.
With regards to MIT, I have a friend from high school going there as a nuclear engineering undergrad right now. I can’t speak for the academics, but he’s got some pretty amazing opportunities out of it. Come to think of it, he was really big into the air force too - OP kind of sounds like his doppelganger.
If your only way to pay for MIT is the Army, and you don’t want to go Army, definitely don’t do it. No undergrad degree is worth wasting 4 years of your life in a service you don’t want to be in. But be aware that A&M engineering + Corps is no walk in the park either. I know few people that have done both, and it keeps them busy.
As far as programming, I wouldn’t sweat it. The required TAMU programming classes don’t require any background knowledge and teach you everything starting from square one. If you’re really concerned about prepping for it, there are a zillion intro C++ resources out there. CSCE 121 doesn’t get any more sophisticated than matrices/vectors and pointers, tops. Even the pointers might have been an honors class thing. Look over basic data types (ints, chars, etc) conditionals/if statements, making simple loops, classes and inheritance, and vectors.
Nuclear engineering? Kind of a dying field if you ask me. Was originally intending to do that.
What kind of opportunities is he getting?
I could see what MIT could give me without the AROTC, but I can guarantee it will be less than 20K per year. AROTC isn’t the only way to pay, but the only way if I don’t want to have any debt. My parents aren’t going to give me a thing, as well they shouldn’t; I’d rather not financially divest my relatives for the sake of pride and prestige by going to MIT as opposed to TAMU, like one person at my HS is doing, especially in light of the many benefits I’d get out of going to TAMU.
I understand that going to graduate school for business would send mixed signals out to employers, but what aside from this is so harmful?
It can send a signal to employers that you are not really interested in engineering as anything other than a stepping stone to management, so getting a actual engineering job may be more difficult.
@HPuck35 has written occasionally about this type of thing.
Got internships in two different govt labs the last two summers, last I heard one of them was interested in hiring him on for a BS role. I haven’t spoke with him in a year, so no idea how that all panned out.
And yeah - don’t go to grad school to be a manager unless you’re actually going to be a manager.