Best Fit College for Math and Science

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Hi, </p>

<p>I'm a current Junior who has begun the college search and would like some advice with regards to which colleges might be a good fit for me. Firstly, let me describe a little about myself and what I'm looking for in a college. I'm a student who is looking for a top college which excels at math or science. I'm looking at colleges within both the US and England (which is where I'm from originally) and want small to medium sized college (preferably under 20,000 students). Also, the area I want to specialize most in is theoretical math (the sub-area I think I might want to specialize in is real/complex analysis (although that may change as I investigate higher level math). Therefore, I want a university with great theoretical mathematics options. Preferably I'd like to have some good humanities offerings (possibly getting a minor in philosophy), but I want my main focus to be in the math and science areas (maybe spending around 2/3 of my time in math & science and 1/3 in everything else). My eventual goal is to go to graduate school, get a PhD in mathematics and become a math professor. Therefore, I'd like a college which gives lots of research opportunities to undergrads and has a great math grad. program, so that I can begin research and graduate level courses as an undergrad. </p>

<p>Here are the current colleges I'm interested in (as my top choices- I obviously have some back-up options also) and some things which I really like and am concerned about with each:</p>

<p>1) MIT: </p>

<p>I've visited MIT twice now and love it each time I visit; the size and location also seem to suit me really well, and I know that it has a fantastic reputation. My one slight concern that I always have with MIT is that it seems to emphasize engineering/practical applications. Therefore, I was slightly worried about whether I'd fit in as I really want to emphasize theory and proofs, and it's my understanding that not that many MIT students go into the theoretical math track at least initially (in terms of not many taking the 18.014-18.024-18.034 to start their freshman careers). I've never been particularly into engineering/building things, so I'm just concerned about whether I fit with their whole mission of "Mind and Hand". Therefore, I still don't know what to think with regards to MIT as I really, really like it every time I visit, but just have this one doubt still. </p>

<p>2) Caltech</p>

<p>I haven't visited Caltech but have done a lot of research about it and know that it is more theoretically oriented than somewhere like MIT (in terms of requiring students to take more theoretical math/physics tracks). Therefore, I really like this theoretical emphasis as I feel like it aligns well with my goals. Also, I like the house system and small size of Caltech as I feel like I would fit in well with that system. I have just a couple of concerns with Caltech: 1) While I really like the small size, I am slightly concerned that it will mean that there will be fewer courses offered, so I may not have as much choice. 2) I've read in a lot of places that people aren't that impressed with Caltech's humanities offerings. While it's not where I want to specialize, I do really enjoy the humanities so would like somewhere which does have humanities courses of good caliber. 3) Caltech's location is not ideal for me as I currently have family on the East Coast and in England, so it's quite far away from them. </p>

<p>3) Princeton</p>

<p>Again, I haven't had the opportunity to visit, but it seems to potentially be a good fit for me. I love the look of their Advanced/Accelerated Freshman Sequence (MAT 216 and 218) as they seem to be great, intense intro. analysis classes (which hopefully, I should be able to handle as I'm independently working through some analysis material this year so will have had exposure to rigorous proofs by the time I'm attending).I also really like the look of their 4 part Analysis Series (MAT 325, MAT 335, MAT 425, and MAT 523) which I'd love to have completed by the end of my undergrad. career. Its location is also great in terms of being on the East Coast (and I'd get to be at the university where Fermat's Last Theorem was proven! :) ). My one concern with Princeton is that unlike Caltech and MIT, Princeton is not specifically oriented towards math or science, so while it has a great program, I'm just concerned that it won't have enough emphasis on math/science for me. I visited Harvard, and personally, found that it wasn't a good fit for me as their philosophy seemed to be more oriented towards liberal arts in lieu of depth in one specific area (which was more what I was looking for). </p>

<p>4) Carnegie Mellon: </p>

<p>I know that Carnegie Mellon also has a good reputation for math, and I like how I could really garner the depth that I want through their having no core classes and instead allowing students to go very deep into their chosen subject area. My one concern is similar to that with MIT in that I'm just wondering whether Carnegie Mellon will be too engineering oriented for my liking. </p>

<p>5) Other US universities: </p>

<p>The 4 above are just the universities that I think will be best suited to me, but there are also other top universities I'm considering applying to (such as University of Chicago, University of California Berkeley, Stanford, etc.). I'm also very amenable to any suggestions from members of the College Confidential community. From the extensive research I've done, I seem to be best fit for those above, but if there's another that anyone thinks I'd be better suited for, please suggest it. I also have back up universities as I know all of the above have a very, very low admit rate and are extremely competitive. </p>

<p>6) UK universities: </p>

<p>I'm also looking at universities in the UK (Oxford would be my top choice), but I'm also probably going to apply to Imperial College, University of Warwick, University College London (UCL), and King's College. I'm not posting more detailed information as I presume members of the College Confidential community won't be as familiar with the UK universities (but if anybody is, please feel free to post information). </p>

<p>In summary: </p>

<p>I'm looking for a university with a theoretical math/science orientation (particularly with analysis) and with a nerdy, collaborative student culture. My two big questions are: 1) Do the above universities seem to be good fits for what I'm looking for? Which of the above seems to fit me the best? and 2) Are there other universities that people think it's worth it for me to apply to that may be better than or as good fits as the above?</p>

<p>I recognize that people may be familiar with only one or two of the universities where they have personally been a student but would appreciate any information at all that any of you could give me! </p>

<p>Thanks so much in advance!</p>

2

<p>What level of math courses will you have completed at high school graduation? If you are very advanced in math, then a university with a good graduate program in math may be needed to keep you interested as an undergraduate (graduate courses and graduate level research opportunities as an undergraduate).</p>

<p>Note that a math department’s strength does not necessarily depend on whether the overall university’s other departments are strong or well known. Note also that MIT and Caltech have extensive general education requirements.</p>

<p>For the both the math offerings and the philosophy or other humanities offerings, you can check each school’s online catalogs and schedules.</p>

<p>What are your cost constraints, and have you run the net price calculators on each of the universities in question?</p>

3

<p>Hi, </p>

<p>Thank you so much for your response. In terms of math, I’m currently in AP Calculus BC and next year will be taking Multivariable Calculus and Differential Equations. By the end of Senior year, I’m also hoping to have gone over, for fun, elementary Real Analysis, Complex Analysis, and Linear Algebra (although I probably won’t have covered enough of these subjects to skip any courses at these universities). </p>

<p>In terms of cost, I’m hoping for a good financial aid package and am planning on applying without thinking too much about cost and then seeing what financial aid I get when I submit those forms. I’ve looked at financial aid calculators but am in a divorced family situation, so those calculators aren’t calibrated to take that into consideration. However, for now, I’m more interested in seeing what universities are a good fit, applying to those, and then rejecting some if they are too expensive rather than deciding which ones I’m applying to based on cost. </p>

<p>I hope that helps to give more information, and thanks once again for your response!</p>

4

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<p>This increases the risk of a financial shut-out (no school that you get admitted to will be affordable). You at least need to find safeties which you know will be affordable as well as schools which you know you will get into.</p>

<p>Note that some public universities with strong math departments (e.g. Stony Brook, Minnesota) have relatively low out-of-state list prices, so if their out-of-state list prices are affordable, you may want to add them to your list. National Merit Finalist status may get you more merit scholarship choices (e.g. Texas A&M).</p>

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<p>Some of the calculators do ask if your parents are divorced. However, you should be able to make a reasonable net price calculator estimate by including all of the income and assets of both parents and any new spouses if they have remarried. The only exceptions would be schools which explicitly state that they do not consider the non-custodial parent, or which use only the FAFSA information (in which case you need only include the income and assets of the parent you live with and any one s/he is now married to).</p>

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<p>There is no point in spending time and money applying to a school which has no chance of being affordable.</p>

5

<p>Hi, </p>

<p>I have done that before with one net price calculator and got a rough estimate that was affordable (while keeping in mind that it’s only a rough estimate). Also, some of the back-up universities which I’ll be applying to are less expensive (but I didn’t mention them here as I already have a good idea of the back-ups I want to apply to so more wanted to gauge which of my top choices I fit in best with). The other helpful factor with cost is that universities in England are much less expensive (as my dad still lives there, so I have a Street Address in England). Therefore,I know, that I’ll be able to afford all the UK universities which I’m applying to. As a whole,I think I’ll be fine with cost and not have an issue with having no university being affordable as I have many less expensive options, and from what I’ve looked at online, with financial aid, many of my top choices should be affordable for me. Also, do you (or anybody else on this forum) have any opinion about which of these universities look like the best fit for me and any which might be a good fit that I’m missing? I would really appreciate some information about that as I may not be able to visit all of these places prior to applying.</p>

<p>Thanks for all of your help so far!</p>

6

<p>I think you worry too much. You will be fine if you get into any of the colleges you mentioned.
Theorical math is really hard. Completing calculus, differential equation, linear algebra in high school is a good thing but it is not a sure sign that you will be be successful as a math major in college. Math majors in Harvard, MIT, Princeton,… are very strong in problem solving skills and abstract reasoning. You should hone those skills now instead of worrying about where you will major in math. </p>

7

<p>Before you start thinking about visiting any school, check on the academic fit like:

  • Course catalog and faculty rosters (with faculty interests) for math and other subjects of interest.
  • Degree requirements for your major and general education requirements.
  • Undergraduate research opportunities.
  • Class sizes from the schedule (advanced math courses tend to be small, but that may not be true in other subjects, particularly for introductory courses).</p>

<p>And non-academic fit like:

  • Net price calculator check.
  • Whether students tend to live on or off campus or commute from where they lived before attending.
  • Size as it relates to social environment.
  • What social and recreational activities are available on campus and in the area.
  • How much of a presence fraternities and sororities are.</p>
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<p>The following web sites may help you to learn more about math in high school:</p>

<p><a href=“https://www.mathcircles.org/Wiki_ExistingMathCirclePrograms_view[/url]”>https://www.mathcircles.org/Wiki_ExistingMathCirclePrograms_view&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://www.mathcircles.org/node/168[/url]”>http://www.mathcircles.org/node/168&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://www.ams.org/programs/students/high-school/emp-mathcamps[/url]”>http://www.ams.org/programs/students/high-school/emp-mathcamps&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://www.artofproblemsolving.com%5B/url%5D”>http://www.artofproblemsolving.com</a></p>

9

<p>@Mathinduction‌:
When I read your opening post, my first reaction is you’re setting yourself up for failure. You’re trying to articulate a recipe for what you’re looking for in a college experience, which is impossible to predict.</p>

<p>You’ve gotten great advice from others in this thread.</p>

<ul>
<li><p>Get some safeties on your list (as you may not get accepted to any of your ideal schools - it happens all the time).</p></li>
<li><p>Research your financial situation. This forum is filled with devastated high school seniors who get accepted to their dream schools, only to later learn they cannot afford to attend there. Plus, you say you’re from England, and many universities in the US give less or no financial aid to foreign students - so check that out.</p></li>
<li><p>Part of going to college is being flexible and growing with the environment you’re in. If you go off to college with a rigid prescription for what it’s supposed to be, you will be hugely disappointed.</p></li>
</ul>

10

<p>Hi, </p>

<p>Thank you so much for all of your responses. I do in fact have some safeties on my list but just didn’t mention them here as I’m trying to look at which of my top choices I want to apply to and which I want to eliminate. </p>

<p>With regards to England, I’m actually a dual citizen with a residence both in the US and the UK, so I’m not applying to either US or UK universities as a foreign applicant. I know universities in the UK will be much less expensive for me, so I definitely have universities on my list which I can afford. </p>

<p>With regards to flexibility, I’m most definitely happy to be flexible. However, I’m trying to decide which colleges I want to apply to and can’t apply to all of them. Therefore, I just wanted to see whether all of the above seem like good matches for me, have people respond to my concerns (from people who are/have been students there or who know about the university), and use this information to decide which universities to apply to. Visiting all of these places is probably not possible for me, so I need to decide which universities to apply to without visiting. </p>

<p>Thanks for all of your advice so far, and I would really appreciate it if you could give me some specific feedback on the fit of the colleges that I’m looking at so that I know whether they’re worth applying to and whether I’m missing some that may be better fits. </p>

11

<p>OP, you picked the top unis in the US and UK, what else are there to recommend more worth to apply?</p>

<p>Perhaps you should list your safety schools, we can be of more help. Lottery schools are just that, lotteries.</p>

12

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<p>The easiest first cut is to eliminate those which will not be affordable to you. No sense in investing any more effort researching or applying to a school which you will not be able to afford to attend. Do you know your price limit?</p>

13

<p>Add Berkeley EECS to your list.</p>

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<p>@puzzled123, Berkeley is already on his list. Perhaps it is not best to recommend to the OP a school which will cost the OP over $50K each year and offer no FA when neither you nor the OP know what the OP can afford.</p>

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<p>@jkeil911‌ </p>

<p>Calm down, just a suggestion… I know people who got into Cal EECS on a full ride, and picked Cal over both MIT/Caltech. OP seems like a bright person, and it would be best for him to keep his opportunities open.</p>

<p>And he said he was considering applying to Berkeley. I would suggest to apply to Cal for sure, as its one of the best STEM schools out there. </p>

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<p>@puzzled123, that WAS my calm response! :slight_smile: </p>

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<p>This would mean that the student is high-financial-need and got a Regents’ scholarship.</p>

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<p>He definitely didn’t have high financial need, but he did get the Regents Scholarship. However, he won one of the other UC scholarships (an engineering one) that gave him a full ride. </p>

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<p>He’s looking for a theoretical math program, so I think EECS is a bit more EE and CS than he’s looking for.</p>

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<p>The only full ride (where the amount does not vary based on need, like Regents’) that I know of at Berkeley is the Drake scholarship, which is for mechanical engineering majors only.</p>