Best High School Choices

Parents Forum
1

<p>I am very grateful for any input on our present situation.</p>

<p>Younger son applied to a prestigious magnet school and was rejected. Although he has won national, state, county and other awards in his specialty, he got very anxious during the interview and scored very low. All of his teachers and coaches, etc. were assuring him that he was a shoo-in. As you might imagine, he is devastated. Tough lesson for an eighth grader to learn.</p>

<p>Now we are faced with the dilemma of choosing where to send him for high school that will give him the best chance for college placement.</p>

<p>He is presently at a very small private school (been there since elementary school) where he knows everyone, is familiar with the teachers, the system, etc. He could play on the golf team which is important to him. But the academic offerings are slim. They have dual-enrollment but very few AP's (three last year). I suppose he could do virtual school AP's, but do colleges count them as highly as in-school AP classes? The school does not offer any classes or clubs in his talent specialty, so that would have to be handled out of school. THe school is very small, so the pickings for friends are slim. He is a very shy kid so as far as comfort level goes, this could be the best thing.</p>

<p>OR, we could place him in another, much larger, private high school that would be a significant academic challenge (placing many kids in Ivies, they have every AP and stellar teachers) but also they have classes and clubs in his talent area. He would not know anyone, and his shyness makes me fear that it might be hard to make friends, especially since many of the kids have been together throughout middle school and elementary school.</p>

<p>So I guess the bottom line question is....
What is better for college, getting really good grades at a small school, taking a few AP's and having lots of solid extra-curriculars OR
attending a prestigious school and taking not the most rigorous course load, getting A's, B's maybe a C and having to study so much that your extra-curriculars must be cut back.</p>

<p>Will selective small LAC's take kids from very small high schools? I don't think the school has place one kids in the Ivy's in the last 10 years. Most go to state colleges.</p>

<p>I know I am leaving out lots of information here, but if someone could start a dialog and help me out I would so greatly appreciate it.
DS is so heartbroken that I must get him enthusiastic about a new path very quickly.
Thanks to all for any help you might offer!</p>

2

<p>My son went to a very small (63 in his graduating class) all boys private Catholic prep school. They offered a few AP’s (maybe 5-6?) but he didn’t take any - only honors classes and not a full schedule of those until his Junior year. The kids could also take classes at the community college which conveniently bordered his high school. He took Physics there his Senior year but other kids took more classes. </p>

<p>He graduated 23rd out of 63, had 30 ACT and a 3.8ish UW GPA. He was in symphonic band, jazz band, ran cross country & track (all for 4 years) and masterminds and mock trial his jr & senior year. Was accepted at all nine schools he applied to - including several small selective LACS and one of our state’s flagships. He is attending a top 25 LAC. </p>

<p>That being said, his school always sends several (3-4) to Ivy’s and several to top Catholic schools (ND, BC, G’town) and schools like Colgate, Vandy, Wake, etc.</p>

3

<p>Personally, I think you are putting the cart before the horse. You need to find a high school that fits your son’s needs, not a high school that places students at the Ivies. If the high school is right for your son, he will excel there, have good academic and EC opportunities. </p>

<p>College choices will be widely available to him depending on his high school performance.</p>

<p>Just an FYI, the Ivies and equivalent also accept kids from public high schools…and they don’t always accept kids from private schools.</p>

4

<p>What thumper said. And there are plenty of excellent colleges besides ivies. The school my D is at is even smaller than thumpers, also has no AP’s, very few EC’s and the kids come in having many different “specialties”, whatever that means for middle school. But the kids thrive there because of the personal attention they get, because the school works with them to provide outside opportunities, and because they have an on-site college and career counselor.</p>

<p>They’re only on their second graduating class and have sent kids to a wide variety of colleges, and have their first Ivy acceptance this year. But really, it’s not all about ivies. You should place your son where he will be happy-not because of where he’ll fit some mold you think he should.</p>

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<p>Although I don’t have any experience or insight on private high schools or prep schools, I would like to share some thoughts with you. A) I don’t suppose AP classes taken in-school bears any more weight than AP course taken online. On the contrary, I would think AP course taken online may command more respect as it shows student going extra mile to acquire a course knowledge not offered at his high school. After all, many students self study for APs not offered at their high schools and it it considered commendable. B) I know someone who sent his 9th grader to out of state prep school for 4 years. Paid $50,000+ each year for high school. The kid didn’t get in anywhere worth celebrating, including state schools.</p>

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<p>Thank you EmilyBee, Thumper1 and SSeamom.<br>
Your words are reassuring.
The reason I have singled out the private schools is that the public school we are zoned for is just not a good fit for my son. It is huge (3000 students) and he has been in this ultra-small school his entire life.
After scrimping to pay for this private school all these years, my husband and I were thrilled to think that we would maybe be able to start saving more money if he got accepted to the magnet school. Not to be. We decided that it was worth it to work harder and place him in the right environment.
I just want to make sure that the right environment will give him the best opportunities.<br>
He is not an Ivy kid. We will be very happy if he ends up at a small LAC that fits his personality. That is much more his fit than a huge state school.
That is why I am so concerned about his high school choice.<br>
When I mentioned the school that send kids to Ivy’s, my thought was that the LAC’s would also look favorably on this school.
While the best fit for him is probably his present school, his freshman schedule - with most rigor - will be geometry, honors english, european history, spanish 2 and earth science. (electives TBD).<br>
I will be meeting with the guidance counselor next week and can get the courses straightened out.
I am just interested in the results from small high schools with few AP’s/honors classes. Will virtual AP classes count as much?
My apologies for these long threads but we just found out this news so I am a bit distraught. Thank you so much for your help.</p>

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<p>Mythreesons,
When colleges look at the courses that a student takes, they look at it in the context of what courses are offered at the high school. If a high school only offers 6 different AP classes, they understand that a student can’t take 15! :slight_smile: If he is able to self-study for an AP exam and take the AP test and score well, that will be looked on favorably and taken as a sign of initiative. Try to make your decision based on your finances and where your son will be most comfortable on many levels.</p>

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<p>Does the magnet take applications after 9th grade?</p>

<p>Kat</p>

9

<p>What kind of small LAC are you envisioning? Can you name a couple that you think you could see him at. That will make it easier to respond. When people say 'selective LAC" most people here think Ivy or similar so you need to define that for us.</p>

<p>Also, the AP class is sort of irrelevant–yes, if they offer them he should take a few each year, but if they don’t offer them, it’s not held against him. What matters is if the guidance counselor checks the “most rigorous” box on his transcript. If that is the DE classes at his school, those are the ones he should take. As for getting college credit, for schools that give AP credit, they tend to give DE credit as well, not all of them but most do. Credit also ONLY comes from the test scores so if he can get a 4 or 5 on the AP test without taking the class, that works for credit as well.</p>

<p>Basically, don’t get caught up in the numbers games, find a good fit for him where he will be comfortable and has the best chance of getting the highest GPA possible. That will be more important in the end, along with his ACT/SAT scores.</p>

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<p>I am with thumper. Make choices based on what makes your son the best, happiest, most engaged, most successful person he can be. Regardless of what happens in four years with college admissions, he will take that with him wherever he goes, and he will have a better, more successful life for that, even compared to gaming his way into the college of his dreams but not being happy, engaged, etc. What’s more, the essence of what most selective colleges are looking for is happy, engaged, successful kids, much more than GPAs or number of APs.</p>

<p>That said, I always come down on the side of more academic challenge. He won’t be 14 forever; don’t trap him in a context that is right for 14-year-old him but that he will outgrow at 16. And I strongly believe that highly selective colleges accept far more students who were the 6th or 7th best student in their class at a very strong school than students who were first in their class at a weak school. (It’s like the NCAA basketball tournament. The 5th place team in the Big 10 could win it all. The best team in the Patriot League, probably not.)</p>

<p>I do not think most colleges reward self-studying for APs. I think they regard it with suspicion. It’s the kind of thing a great, highly motivated student might do if he was starved for academic stimulation where he lived. But it’s also the kind of thing students do who are doing nothing but trying to build a statistical case for their Harvard applications.</p>

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<p>My oldest attended a quite rigourous & selective private LAC.
Her high school did not offer ANY AP classes, nor did she take any AP tests.
Colleges look at what the high school offers.They do not expect student to go outside the curriculum.</p>

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<p>You can try again in 10th grade, but they will only take someone if another student has left the program. It is a great program and very few people ever leave, so the chances are slim. But yes, we have thought about that… Thanks! :0)</p>

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<p>Thanks SteveMA - the highest GPA is probably available at the school he is presently attending.</p>

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<p>Schools off the top of my head that I can see him happy with are Oberlin, St. Olaf, Williams… not Ivy, but selective in my book.
Question is, can you get there from a high school that is in the “Patriot League” and not the Pac10?</p>

15

<p>My eighth grader was also declined from his first choice magnet program. I know how hard that is. I’m sorry you’re dealing with that too.</p>

<p>I don’t really have an answer, but maybe some questions that will help sort this through.</p>

<p>You seem to feel as though he could make the transition to the magnet program, but you worry about him transitioning to the other private school. Why is that? Is it possible that the magnet rejection is making you feel over protective right now? Or are there differences in student body, or other factors that make you think transitioning to the larger private would be harder?</p>

<p>What’s your son like? My own son and I are very different people in how we respond to challenge and competition. I attended 3 different high schools, starting at one like the private school you describe. In each school, I worked just hard enough to get A’s. When I left the private, and the work load dropped, my effort dropped with it. On the other hand, my son isn’t like that. In a situation where he can be at the very top, he’ll be really motivated by that. The smaller school you describe might be better for him.</p>

<p>It sounds like your son has 2 big EC’s, golf and his talent. At each school he can do one but not the other, is that right? If so, is one EC easier to do outside of school than the other? My son has 2 big EC’s too, football and tech theater. Around here football is impossible to do outside of school, while tech is pretty easy. </p>

<p>You mentioned that your son is shy, and also that anxiety hurt him in the interview process. It sounds like these could be areas of growth for him, if he wanted them to be. If so, do you think the larger school would stretch him in these areas? Is he ready to be stretched? </p>

<p>Good luck, it sounds like you’ve got 2 great choices!</p>

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<p>My shy nerdy boy thrived at a 3000+ high school where he was finally academically challenged (most of the time) and found a critical mass of high performing kids. He got involved in Science Olympiad and Academic Team. Just putting that out there. I think size is less important than finding your tribe.</p>

<p>I think the real question is where will your kid get the better education. Some private schools don’t have APs, but have terrific courses that are every bit as good, others really don’t offer more than a good public high school. I consider the fact that the school has never sent a kid to an Ivy a bit of a red flag - I’d at least want to know where the top kids go. (That’s assuming I had a kid that I thought would probably should end up at a very selective college - if you have a happy go lucky B student - a high powered high school might be too much pressure.) </p>

<p>Golf strikes me as a sport that would be very easy to do outside of school.</p>

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<p>mythreesons1144–those schools are “selective” but they also value geographic diversity so that could be a bonus. If your child can do reasonably well in school, 3.7 ish or so GPA and get a 28+ on his ACT, all of those schools are well within reach for admissions. If you want merit money, that will be a bit different as there will be some, but not that much. Higher test scores will get him more money. Being male is actually a huge bonus at most schools oddly enough. Were the national awards, etc. in golf? If so, that will be a HUGE hook at a school like St. Olaf :D.</p>

<p>If he moves to another school, the summer golf circuit will get him more notice for schools than playing on his high school team.</p>

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<p>The 2 areas that you are concerned with:

  1. Which HS will your child thrive
  2. Which HS will get your child admitted to the types of colleges that you like: St Olaf, Oberlin, etc.</p>

<p>As for #2, past matriculations (5-10 years worth) will give you a sense if there is a “well worn path” from that particular HS to college. If there is not, then I’d say that it is an extremely hard uphill battle for your DS to be the pioneer of sorts. Has the small school or the competitive school ever sent kids to these types of colleges?</p>

<p>As for APs, colleges will evaluate this based on what was available by the school. And on-line AP class would be seen just as good, maybe better as it shows initiative, as school AP class.</p>

<p>As for which HS would your child thrive, you know your child best. That being said, if you think that kid would get Cs at the competitive school, it may limit kids college options, so this should be considered as well. What are his grades/GPA for middle school? Is he a top/middle/bottom section of the class?</p>

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<p>A couple of things…first…our kids went to public school all the way through high school.</p>

<p>Second…OP, your son is an EIGHTH grader. Much can change between now and when he is ready to apply to college. He could do a flip flop and decide he wants a large research university with a school spirit football team. </p>

<p>So…pick a high school. Don’t pick a high school that you think will get him into the colleges you think would suit him at age 13 or 14.</p>

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<p>Thumper - you are right. Thanks for the pep talk. I need it right now!
We are leaning to the small school that he is comfortable with and offers teachers, coaches and advisors that know and love him. They will nurture him and send him on his way - wherever that might be.<br>
I am still a bit concerned about the lack of academic rigor, but hope that if he takes the two or three AP’s offered and then some dual enrollment that that will give him a strong enough resume.
He has been offered the opportunity to audition for a scholarship at one private school and to audition for admittance to another very selective private school. We might take a look at the scholarship option because it is enticing. The scholarship school is a bit larger and has a much stronger music program than our small school, but is not as familiar and farther from our home. I am also concerned about the pressure to perform if accepted for the scholarship - they expect a lot.
However, my husband and I are willing to cut back and pay the price if his small, nurturing school is the best place for him. With his personality, I am leaning toward that.
I want to thank everyone for your thoughts and suggestions. You are all really helpful and your advice is so appreciated.<br>
After reading threads on this board, one can get so concerned that every little move in a child’s academic career could ruin their future. I guess I just need to calm down and realize that my son is a good, smart kid who will succeed in life - regardless of the rigor of his high school. He needs to be in a place where he is comfortable and happy.
I welcome any and all thougts.
Thanks again!!!</p>