<p>I was accepted to the CoE with little idea about what to pursue. Is this normal? Nobody in my family is an engineer, it just seems like a good major for me because I've always aced my math and science courses, there's a lot of demand and job security, and the starting salaries are very competitive. But I have no idea how everyone knows they want to be chemical, mechanical, IOE or whatever. I assume the most popular if you want to enter the auto industry is mechanical? Aero if you want to work at Boeing or NASA? But I don't know about the rest. I know the first two semesters are an exploratory year, but I feel like most of my peers already have it all figured out. Are there certain tiers of the majors which are most competitive? Is IOE really a joke? Are there engineering related internship opportunities the summer after first year or not really?</p>
<p>If IOE is a joke, those buggers are laughing all the way to the bank! IOE majors are getting placed into manufacturing, consulting and banking jobs like nobody’s business.</p>
<p>There is no “best”. Mechanical, Chemical and Electrical Engineering have the most widespread applications. They are needed across multiple industries. As such, they are considered the most versatile. Biomedical Engineering, Aerospace Engineering, Civil Engineering and Environment engineering are more specific, but they still have great placement. If you know for a fact that you want to work for NASA or Boeing, or for Medtronic or Baxter, then by all means, major in Aerospace or Biomedical Engineering respectively. On the other hand, if you are uncertain, or wish to keep your options wide open, I would recommend Mechanical, Chemical or Electrical.</p>
<p>You can’t go wrong, just go with what you are passionate about, maintain a good GPA, and good things will happen when you start looking for an internship at the end of your second year at Michigan.</p>
<p>You can take engr110 where they go over each of the engineering majors. It’s very light work since most of your grade is homework. It’s a 2 credit course and if nothing else, it’s an easy A. </p>
<p>Engr110 was worthless when I took it, but I believe it was brand new then, so maybe they’ve changed it since.</p>
<p>You’ll just kind of figure it out when you get here. Plus there’s people from various majors here (I know at least EECS, IOE, and MechE are all here which are the 3 biggest engineering departments) you can ask. If you have any questions about IOE or EECS let me know. </p>
<p>“If IOE is a joke, those buggers are laughing all the way to the bank! IOE majors are getting placed into manufacturing, consulting and banking jobs like nobody’s business.”</p>
<p>Alexandre is right on. IOE’s are very, very employable.</p>
<p>Yes, a lot of students outside of IOE make fun it. They say things like I-O-Easy, In and Out Easy, etc. However, those are students do not even know what IOE is about. These people have never even taken an IOE class before. They don’t know what it’s like.</p>
<p>Let me make it clear that IOE is not as easy as people outside of IOE make it out to be. Not everyone gets an A in IOE classes. I had an IOE class where only 1 person got a 4.0 and less than 17% received an A- or above. Would I consider it insanely difficult? No. I have only taken 1 class where getting at least a B would be very, very difficult (the class I mentioned above where only one person got a 4.0). I would bet that the grade distributions of IOE classes and Non IOE engineering are pretty similar. In IOE classes, the exam averages tend to be higher. However, this results in lower “curves” or grade adjustments.</p>
<p>Most importantly, if someone makes fun of you for being an IOE just say something like</p>
<p>“My major is easy, I enjoy it, it is applicable to almost every industry, and it leads to awesome career opportunities? Poor me. You’re right, I should definitely have majored in something else.” 
</p>
<p>For real though, IOE is a lot easier than CSE and the job opportunities are far worse. Doesn’t mean that IOE is a bad major though. </p>
<p>“For real though, IOE is a lot easier than CSE and the job opportunities are far worse. Doesn’t mean that IOE is a bad major though.”</p>
<p>That’s BS. IOE might be a lot easier than CSE, but the job opportunities are NOT far worse for IOE students. There might be more jobs available for CSE students, but NOT significantly more. That fish won’t fry @Vladenschlutte. </p>
<p>IOE is a much, much better major than @Vladenschlutte is making it out to be. IOE is a fantastic major. In terms of employment opportunities, it’s probably only second to CSE in the CoE. Even if it is second, it’s NOT significantly behind.</p>
<p>It seems like the TOP IOE students have great job opportunity. Then it just drops off to supply chain jobs that ME’s can apply for too.</p>
<p>You forgot “Instead of Engineering” in your list, lol.</p>
<p>I’ve taken an IOE class. I know other MEs that have. The general consensus is that it is easier.</p>
<p>I am not sure where you are getting your information dm2017, but I suggest you stop using that source as it is clearly not accurate. IOE is no more prone to attract URMs than other Engineering majors. </p>
<p>“It seems like the TOP IOE students have great job opportunity. Then it just drops off to supply chain jobs that ME’s can apply for too.”</p>
<p>Those supply chain jobs are still really good jobs too.</p>
<p>“I’ve heard IOE contains the majority of the URMs in the College of Engineering. When you come from a struggling secondary school, IOE is about the only program you can hack because it can be tailored to avoid tough math.”</p>
<p>IOE 453 involves stochastic calculus.</p>
<p>“African Americans at the College of Engineering are most likely to earn a IOE over any other engineering degree.”</p>
<p>I clicked on your link. 2 African American males and 3 African American Females received a Bachelor’s in IOE 2012-2013 period. The same numbers hold for the 2011-2012 period. </p>
<p>I am a current IOE student at U-M. I hardly see any African American students in my IOE classes.</p>
<p>Note: I am NOT suggesting that African Americans students are inferior to other students. I am just stating that I hardly see any URM students in my classes.</p>
<p>Michigan IOE 2012 alum here. My subjective/objective perspectives:</p>
<ol>
<li>IOE is not a joke (you can call me bias). There are some 400, 500, 600 level courses involve heavily rigorous math.However, I should also agree that IOE is easier (not whole a lot in terms of work load) than AE, CS, CE’s, EE, ME, NE. But being easier isn’t a derogatory thing that prospective students should be afraid of IOE. Continue reading to know why… </li>
<li>IOE comprise subjects that are virtually applicable to any work and research setting across all industries. Some classes relate to advanced statistical analysis and probability, decision making, operation research, engineering management, financial engineering, systems engineering, production/manufacturing/distribution systems, healthcare engineering and patient safety, and last but not least ergonomics, human performance, and occupational safety. Human Factors engineering is very progressive field and can be taught in CS, CE, BME, Psychology, Neurology, IOE, and maybe other closely related fields. </li>
<li>Like many other majors if you study hard and perform well above average grades, you’re employable in good-great positions. In my junior and senior years, I attended the career fairs and demand for quality IOE students is real and only gets stronger as we live in globalized economy that strives for faster, efficient, safe, etc etc productions and services. </li>
<li>I-O-Easy, In and Out Easy, Instead Of Engineering coincidentally funny and match IOE letters. But IOE stands for Industrial & Operations Engineering - real major, real science, and for real students. I can be a jerk and call CS a Crap Subject but doesn’t make it such one. </li>
<li>I never lived in AA but commuted from where I live (50 minutes away from the campus). So obviously I missed the Michigan’s overall experience. Yet, from the roughly 15 classmates (friends) that I took many classes with, studied and hangout with: five accepted positions in MBB, one Boeing, one Chevron, one Microsoft, One Ford Mo Co, two Chrysler-Fiat, and rest went abroad for Imperial College London and working overseas. During IOE 333 lecture several years ago, I heard from the Ergonomics professor (elite one) that two PhD IOE students accepted lucrative offer from Apple to work on handheld devices design and ergonomics research. Whether or not you agree/believe in my figures, that is your free will. </li>
<li>Comparing one engineering major to another robs us creativity more than it enriches our minds. It seduces you with promise of fulfillment that you major is superior but it never completely delivers on its promise-all Michigan engineering majors are real and valuable. </li>
<li>To conclude with this quote:
Great minds discuss ideas
Average minds discuss events
Small minds discuss people
I add - Wasted minds discuss Tyranny of Comparison</li>
</ol>
<p>Dear reader and potential IOE (or any major), put more hard work dedication, love, and passion into the program of your choice. You should reap excellence especially if you’re given the opportunity to study at one of the world’s leading research university like Michigan.</p>
<p>Forever, Go Blue!</p>
<p>OP, a ton of freshman say they know what they’re going to major in, but they don’t actually have a good understanding of what the major entails so a lot of those students end up switching majors. There is no reason to worry if you don’t know yet what major you want to pursue. </p>
<p>The examples you provide in your initial post are not as clear cut as you may think – you can get jobs in the auto industry/Boeing/NASA from a wide variety of engineering majors. </p>
<p>There are certainly differences in difficulty between engineering majors, but I wouldn’t consider that as a big factor in your major choice. I’m a recent IOE/math alum and I also spent ~2 years in the business school, so I think I have a fairly good understanding of the spectrum of course difficulties across different majors/programs.</p>
<p>The main reason I think IOE has a bad reputation among some students is that the major is so broad. E.g., the department encompasses operations research, quality engineering, applied prob/stats, ergonomics/human factors, supply chain, manufacturing, etc. when at other schools, these disciplines are found in separate depts. Since all these sub-fields are housed within IOE at umich, IOE students are required to take a lot of introductory/easy courses for their major. Another result of the IOE dept being so broad is that students can fulfill major requirements by picking easy courses. On the other hand, though, students can also pick courses that are fairly difficult. All in all, this causes the quality of the student body in the dept to be highly variable. Thus, while I agree that some of the dumbest engineering students major in IOE, some of the smartest engineering students are also IOEs (albeit usually graduate students).</p>
<p>There are certainly engineering internships available during the summer after your freshman year, but they are harder to obtain so your resume/application need to be excellent.</p>
<p>@bluebestleader </p>
<p>That was an awesome response! :)</p>
<p>I should clarify, when I said IOE is far easier than CSE, I was comparing undergraduate to undergraduate. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Go around and ask CSE students what they’re getting paid starting, then go around and ask IOE students what they’re getting paid starting. You’re gonna find that CSE is paying something like 50% more. Seriously. Beyond that, CompE is also paying significantly higher than IOE, and stuff like ChemE and EE are paying a little bit higher on average from what I understand. 65K from IOE just doesn’t stack up against 100K from CS. </p>
<p>I’m not saying the job market for IOEs is bad on an objective scale, but it simply does not come close to CS or CompE, don’t pretend it does. </p>
<p>According to the latest CoE placement report:</p>
<p>Average salary according to major:</p>
<p>Aerospace Engineering $62,000
Biomedical Engineering $59,000
Chemical Engineering $69,000
Civil Engineering $55,000
Computer Engineering $73,000
Computer Science $82,000
Electrical Engineering $66,000
Industrial Engineering $63,000
Materials Engineering $63,000
Mechanical Engineering $64,000</p>
<p>With the exception of CS and Computer Engineering, I do not see how IOE is at a disadvantage. </p>
<p>I think there are some problems with those numbers (82K for CS just does not match up with what I hear) but even based off of those numbers, I’m standing by my comments. CSE and CompE pay much more than IOE. </p>
<p>Why would the university lie about starting salaries. And your comment is accurate. CS and CompE majors do get paid better (although there is no way on earth that the average starting base salary for CS majors is $100,000). That does not mean that other engineers do not have excellent career prospects. </p>
<p>I don’t think they’re lying, I think their data collection is bad. </p>
<p>The average starting base salary isn’t 100K for CS, but all inclusive first year compensation (dividing signing bonus by the number of years you have to work to keep it) is over 100K. I’m pretty confident but I can’t point to any statistics. Probably 1/3 get starting base salaries of 100K+. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I said this too. </p>
<p>Keep in mind those salary statistics are all self-reported, so they aren’t the most reliable. Based on people I know and have talked with, Vladenschlutte’s comments are accurate – CS salaries generally aren’t >100k, but total 1st year compensation often exceeds 100k. I think it’s also fair to say that signing bonuses are normally larger for EECS majors than other majors, and this isn’t reflected in the CoE’s annual placement report since it only reports salaries.</p>
<p>I also don’t think IOE graduates make much less than CSE. Not from those I know.
Self-reported is not the problem if the sample size is large enough. Unless there are other published statistics, I will believe whatever is published than personal communication.</p>