<p>I would strong recommend the OP to take visits to WUSTL, NU, Chicago, UIUC and Michigan. All of these universities are strong academic institutions and would all be matches for the OP. The biggest obstacle would be that being from Illinois will not help with geographic diversity for the first three. The schools have different feels to them socially and the OP would get a sense of this with a visit and it would make it much easier to limit the applications to three.</p>
<p>tk, Michigan could replace any of the three other universities. In terms of quality and reputation, they are all roughly equal. And I would not recommend applying to Michigan later as Michigan is more generous with merit scholraships for applicants who apply early. </p>
<p>The way to go about it is to chose a school based on fit. Each of those four universities has a distinct culture and feel.</p>
<p>This said, none of those schools is known for being particularly generous with aid, which is surprising consdering the fact that they are all among the 15 wealthiest universities in the nation. For this reason, I would recommend the OP apply to all four universities. I think WUSTL and Michigan will both offer the OP a hefty merit scholraship, whereas Chicago and NU would be more likely to offer aid.</p>
<p>OP, if at all possible I would find a way to come up with the money for a couple more applications. If you can do that there’s no reason you should have to listen to your parents about how many schools you can apply to.</p>
<p>^^ I agree with the above statement. The college admissions process today is more competitive than ever. Do not risk your options (and future) by relying on a small number of schools. If money is a serious concern, apply to a minimum of 6 schools. I’m sure you can raise the additional money for application fees.</p>
<p>I’d like to expand on some remarks contributed by tenisghs above (#14) about the atmosphere at Chicago, which is indeed “not for everyone.” </p>
<p>The University of Chicago has a very strong institutional culture. It is notorious for being a self-consciously intellectual place, one that defines its mission around scholarship not career preparation. The undergraduate “Common Core” program reflects a belief that liberal education in the arts and sciences is excellent preparation for scholarship, careers, and life ([Common</a> Core](<a href=“https://collegeadmissions.uchicago.edu/academics/commoncore.shtml]Common”>https://collegeadmissions.uchicago.edu/academics/commoncore.shtml)). </p>
<p>There is ample evidence that Chicago graduates do succeed in careers, despite the lack of undergraduate pre-professional programs in areas such as business, journalism, architecture or engineering. For example, for a university with no drama or music school, and no creative writing program, it has graduated a number of famous artists and performers. For a university with no journalism school, it also has graduated many prominent journalists. ([List</a> of University of Chicago alumni - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_University_of_Chicago_alumni]List”>List of University of Chicago alumni - Wikipedia)). Although it is known as a training ground for future college professors more than business entrepreneurs, among Midwestern universities it ranks second only to Notre Dame for average mid-career salaries of alumni with terminal Bachelors degrees. Among all universities it is tied for 7th with Northwestern for the highest number of billionaire alumni.</p>
<p>As for quality of life, the self-deprecating joke at Chicago is that this is the school “where fun goes to die”. Many years ago it withdrew from Big 10 sports, even abolished football for decades, to encourage total commitment to academics. When football returned there was a lot of fanfare with a giant kazoo marching band, and more self-deprecating humor in the collegiate Fight Song:
*Thucydides, Themistocles,The Peloponnesian War
X-squared, Y-squared, H2SO4
Who for, what for,
Who are we going to root for?
Maroons! Maroons! *</p>
<p>In recent years Chicago has built new athletic facilities so it’s a good place to work out or learn Aikido (just don’t count on a career path into the NBA from there). The campus is quite beautiful, with neo-Gothic buildings (joined to emphasize interdisciplinary connections) reminiscent of Cambridge University, extensive green spaces, and outstanding research facilities. Traditionally it also has had strong extracurricular film and theater programs. However, there is no rah-rah D1 sports scene, and only an understated Greek scene. Compared to the Ivies and New England LACs, it does not seem to value selectively “crafting a class” as much (choosing 1 oboe player from New Jersey here or a soccer goalie there.) That does not mean there is no extracurricular life. For years the school staged an annual, unrehearsed performance of the William Tell Overture inside the cavernous Rockefeller Chapel. Anyone with an instrument could just show up and play. Believe me, it was every bit as bad as it sounds (but still lots of fun in the rather quirky Chicago spirit.) Other mainstays of extracurricular life have included the erstwhile Lascivious Costume Ball (show up naked, get in free) and the more wholesome annual “Scav Hunt” ([The</a> University of Chicago Scavenger Hunt](<a href=“http://scavhunt.uchicago.edu/index.html]The”>Scav Hunt)).</p>
<p>No doubt about it, Northwestern (or Michigan) offers more of classic, well-rounded, All-American college experience than Chicago. Chicago is certainly not the only one of these schools to provide an intense intellectual atmosphere (not at all), but more than the others it defines its identity around just that. If that is not immediately appealing to you, if it sounds limiting and unpleasant, then this would be a school to drop from your short list.</p>
<p>ChetMan, I would definitely ask your parents to reconsider their rule of three. I would recommend you apply to at least 6. Here’s how I would go about it:</p>
<p>REACHES (2): Given your stats, it would be a shame not to at least try
Harvard University
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Princeton University
Stanford University
Yale University</p>
<p>MATCHES (3):
Northwestern University
University of Chicago
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
Washington University-St Louis</p>
<p>SAFETY (1):
University of Illinois-Urbana Champaign</p>
<p>Wash U - Northwestern - U Chicago</p>
<p>In that order. St. Louis and Chicago are both great cities to live in!</p>
<p>LOL. I knew it was only a matter of time before the U Michigan fans would start campaigning for inclusion in this. </p>
<p>So, why shouldn’t U Michigan be included? Compared to U Chicago, Wash U, and Northwestern, U Michigan</p>
<ol>
<li> is not nearly as selective</li>
<li> offers much larger class settings for students</li>
<li> has a faculty that is seen by students as less focused on their needs</li>
<li> spends less money on services to undergrads, particularly financial aid</li>
</ol>
<p>U Michigan’s closest Midwestern peers are U Illinois and U Wisconsin. They have strong graduate programs that fuel a powerful research effort that is the basis for their reputations within the world of academia. For undergraduate, these schools are fine places, but not as strong compared to places like U Chicago, Wash U and Northwestern. </p>
<p>The school that’s being left out of this conversation and which most belongs is Notre Dame. Frankly, no Midwestern school has the national brand power of Notre Dame and its students are every bit as talented as those at U Chicago, Wash U and Northwestern.</p>
<p>Yeah, ND! Woo! Go home UMich.</p>
<p>Not sure for other subjects, but for the biological sciences: WashU.</p>
<p>And if you believe selectivity is an indication of ‘quality’, then WashU is the most selective of all four.</p>
<p>In addition, if you haven’t heard, Fun goes to die at UC :P</p>
<p>While Michigan is not for everyone, it’s not as bad as hawkette claims here. It is one of best public universities in the country. I highly recommend you apply to Michigan to keep your options open (there are many Illinois residents who attend Michigan).</p>
<p>Although WUSTL is the most selective of the three private universities, Northwestern and UChicago are considered more prestigious in academics.</p>
<p>Thanks for all the helpful comments so far. As for the whole I can only apply to three schools rule, it’s not a money thing at all. My parents think that students in general (and me more particularly) tend to get way to stressed out about the whole college applications thing. Their response is to limit me so that I can only apply to 3 schools. I’ve argued with them about this until I’m blue in the face, but I can’t make them change their minds, so for better or for worse, I’m applying to 3 schools and that’s all. No matter what one of those is going to be Illinois, so that leaves me 2 schools to choose from.</p>
<p>I’m sure Michigan is a great school and all that, but it’s really not for me, and I think that Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, etc. are too far away and too hard to get into to even bother trying. My sister got turned down at Princeton with perfect SATs, #1 class rank (our school has since stopped rankings), and student body Princeton. I also really would like to close to home. The whole “secretly raise the funds and apply to more schools” idea is also ridiculous. What happens if I get in at my secret application school and like it best? What do I tell my parents then?</p>
<p>Oh and as for Notre Dame. I’m kind of a hardcore atheist and I’m just generally uncomfortable with the idea of a religious school.</p>
<p>^^^^^hawkette bashing Michigan? I have had her on ignore for so long, I wouldn’t even know. Then again, that’s why I have her on ignore.</p>
<p>Chetman, the reason why posters believe you need to apply to more than 3 schools is because admissions at the top universities is super-competitive now. Your parents have unrealistic expectations of how the college admissions process works. WUSTL - NU - Chicago have acceptance rates below 30%. That means at least 70% of the students who applied receive rejection letters. What makes you so certain that you will have a guaranteed spot in their incoming classes? You have to apply to more schools to expand your options if you are one of the unlucky people. Remember, many talented students do receive rejections from their top choices.</p>
<p>You guys crack me up. I’m not bashing U Michigan. I just said that, for undergraduate students, it is far more comparable to U Illinois and U Wisconsin than it is to U Chicago, Wash U and Northwestern. There’s plenty of data to support this thought and I’d be happy to oblige if you like. LOL.</p>
<p>Chet,
Got it on Notre Dame and agree that, given your personal views, it would not be the right place for you. Good luck with your college choice and I join others in hoping that your parents relent and let you expand beyond 3 colleges. The selection process can be hyper competitive and expanding your horizon by 1-2 schools could make a world of difference.</p>
<p>
Trot out those numbers, hawkette. Knock yourself out. </p>
<p>Chicago is the best of the three, academic-wise, in core subjects. Northwestern has more breadth and depth. WUSTL likely will throw the most money at you.</p>
<p>ucb,
I deliberately didn’t do that in my first post because I didn’t want to embarass the U Michigan folks as they always accuse me of posting stuff that shows a gap between them and top schools like U Chicago, Wash U, Northwestern and Notre Dame. </p>
<p>Look, don’t get me wrong–I think that U Michigan is a nice school…like its closest Midwestern peers of U Illinois and U Wisconsin–but for undergraduate education, I don’t think it compares that well with the Big 4.</p>
<p>
Michigan is great, but why recommend it to OOS students when a decent in-state bargain can be found at UIUC? Illinois is top 20 in virtually all of the OP’s areas of interests, so it is not exactly weak. I’m not the only one to think so – only about 180 IL residents enroll in A&S at Michigan each year.</p>
<p>It is certainly worth adding if the list can be expanded beyond three schools, but as it stands, it makes sense to aim for a diversity of schools.</p>
<p>
The OP is interested in history, political science, economics, math, and biology.</p>
<p>Of those fields, WUStL matches Chicago in political science and biology. History is a staple major, and any top school will have a strong one. Chicago has a noticeable edge in math and econ, but I doubt this would be significant unless the OP plans to go into econ-related fields.</p>
<p>Those who urge you to visit speak good sense. After all, I should’ve chosen Columbia over my own school if I only looked at graduate rankings, but I would’ve been horrifically unhappy there. Do your own research.</p>
<p>^ Warbler’s right, you gotta visit. We’ve tried to lay out some graduate ranking numbers to help clarify where the academic strengths are (and as a sanity check when somebody says this school for bio or that one for econ). Again, they are all pretty much peers. Going off to explore a new campus is a fun part of the process (especially if you aren’t trying to cram 10 visits into one long weekend.)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yes. If your parents are reasonable people, OP, I’m sure they’ll get over it.</p>
<p>The WUSTL supplement on the Common App has no essays or short answers–it wouldn’t be any more work to apply to Chicago + Northwestern + WUSTL than it would to just the first two. Try telling your parents that?</p>
<p>But yes, visit.</p>