I am a junior in high school trying to decide which colleges I will apply to next year. My ultimate goal is a PhD in Engineering so I can work in R & D for robotics.
Somebody told me that I should major in Math or Physics (instead of engineering) as an undergrad so I have a solid foundation in these fields. Is this true?
Also, I would like to minimize any debts or loans as much as possible. So, as a likely National Merit Finalist, I am considering applying to a NM scholarship college Honor program (U Kentucky, U Oklahoma, UT Dallas, etc.)
However, to have a better chance at admission to great graduate engineering programs, should I look into more competitive colleges - Michigan (in-state), Vanderbilt, etc.?
My current stats:
GPA - 4.0 UW / 4.83 W
PSAT 1500/1520
ACT/SAT - taking in April
All IB classes (Diploma) at a Midwest Suburban Public HS
First you need to choose your undergrad school. Once you are there you will learn a lot more about the grad school process. Secondly- if you want to be an engineer you will major in engineering. Those majors include the math and sciences but the math or physics majors will not include the engineering courses.
Apply to schools where you will be able to pursue the field of engineering that most interests you. Do NOT try to game the system by choosing schools that offer NMS money- you will be in competition with other NMFs and can’t count on the money.
Before you choose schools you need to know which engineering fields appeal to you. You also need to figure out the finances- discuss those with your parents. There are many NMS finalists so do not count on that award. Presuming you are the high caliber student you state you likely will get into some top schools. However, even NMS finalists do not get accepted to all elite schools.
There are many top tier schools for engineering. Remember your home state school(s). Also remember you are a multifaceted individual so check out schools for their overall “fit”- do you like the campus et al.
Wait on thinking about the PhD part. Once you are in college you may decide to change your major. With an engineering major you may decide to work or get a masters. What you do will depend on your work goals. They do not depend on your IQ or gpa (those are not the same- gifted kids often have lesser grades in HS because they are bored and don’t do the work needed for the A). Once you are in college you will learn a lot about the field. You will find out what most interests you and choose that path. You may decide getting a PhD is not your goal because of your work options.
Right now focus on finding affordable schools with good engineering programs. Many of the Midwestern flagships will have good programs- know your majors of interest. Those schools will prepare you for advanced degrees along with having the faculty to guide you and be known to other grad programs.
Again, stick with engineering (realizing you can change your major once in college). The liberal arts math, physics, chemistry et al will be more theoretical and not what seems to interest you most. In fact, math majors can be divided into applied and theoretical at some schools. Nothing engineering about either. Likewise physics can be experimental or theory oriented. In college you need to focus on one or two fields, there is not enough time to take everything useful or of interest.
To get a Ph.D. in engineering I’m pretty positive that the undergrad degree should also be engineering. You could do a search here, it’s been discussed before.
Michigan is a top engineering school and tops in graduate engineering also. It would be a great choice. You could go for NM at another school if you want.
I can’t emphasis enough how important it is to progress as far as you can in mathematics for most engineering disciplines. You will likely also need serious CS skills as well for robotics. Michigan does not offer much in terms of merit scholarships, but has good FA for in-state students. Private schools such as Rice and Vanderbilt offer excellent FA, and Vanderbilt also gives a $5000 NMF (each year) scholarship over and above any FA awards. You will have to carefully research the NMF schools (add Alabama to your list) to see their grad school results too.
Michigan is a superb engineering school with a huge array of student projects and very supportive of its students. With in-state tuition it is very reasonably priced, easy to get to, and offers opportunities and recruiting far above the NMF schools. The research taking place on north campus is cutting edge and readily available through the UROP program. Perhaps the best part is that you do not need to choose based on quality, all of the engineering disciplines are in the top 10-12. Research is going to help a lot with your grad school recommendations.
I would carefully look at your family finances and see if it makes sense to consider the NMF alternatives. I would definitely examine private options. Note that ACT/SAT scores for engineering colleges are usually substantially higher than the general university range.
You should think about which aspect of R&D in robotics you want to do in the future. You probably need to explore more in college to find out. It is also common to cross/change discipline in grad school. You should not overplan it for now. UMich would be a great school for you, not only for the strength in all engineering fields but also an in state school that you have the advantages financially and academically. The in state CoA is $28-$30k at UMich and they meet the need of in state student. It may still be cheaper than other OOS schools after NMS scholarships. My D did not even apply to any schools that give NMS. If your actual score is higher than the NMS cut off (Michigan is not that high anyway), you may get merit aids from other schools as well. The Scholarship of Honors at CoE is $8000/yr for in state students. You should check out the NPC to estimate your cost too.
You could get into Engineering grad school with a degree in math or physics, but there would most likely be some engineering pre-requisite courses you would need to take before you could be admitted. You may or may not be able to take them as part of your undergrad - majors typically have priority getting into courses so you could be shut out of some engineering courses if you are in a different major.
Not to say it can’t be done - S was looking at a similar path - but do be aware it might require some additional coursework after you complete your undergrad.
It would be a lot easier to be an engineering major and take additional math, physics and computer science courses as electives than to try to get the minimum required engineering courses for grad school purposes. Many courses are cross listed as well. Plus- a lot of the needed advanced (beyond the calculus sequence) math will be included in the engineering courses. So, instead of learning theory that is irrelevant to your major you get the needed math and physics principles. Different focus for pure sciences and engineering- you need to decide which one.
Just reread and noticed you’re from Michigan. Check on all three main Michigan schools for engineering- Michigan, Michigan State and Michigan Tech. Find out what grads do with their undergrad degree- eg do most stop at a BS and work or do enough go on to at least a masters. You want to have a peer group with similar aspirations for going beyond the BS. Look at what is offered in various majors. Figure out which campus you like best (not everyone wants the UP). Compare these programs to other states where you MIGHT get merit money.
No it is not true. Major in electrical or mechanical engineering depending on which you prefer. Robotics is some combination of the two. You will have plenty of math and physics. Secondly, I you want a PhD, I would worry less about avoiding debt and more about going to a good competitive school where you can engage in research. If you’re from Michigan, this is an absolute no brainer. Michigan has a great program for undergraduate research.
No, robotics is very loosely linked to Physics or Math. If you want to build robots, learn to build robots in undergrads. It’s that simple. Don’t do math and physics in some vague hope that knowing quantum mechanics will give you skills to build (quantum?) robots :D.
Usually, robotics is a combination of many fields, experts from many fields combine their knowledge to build it. You want to be an expert for one of those, and more if you are a beast.
computer vision (some math & CS & signal processing involved).
Mechanical stuff (under-actuated control system, general mechE stuff).
Planning & decision (Optimization & algorithms & math helps)
Signal Processing (EE's do this a lot)
Software (someone has to code up all the thinking of the robot)
So there you go, many fields from MechE, EE, applied math, CS are used in robotics, you just have to pick courses you like and be good at them.
My feel is that software & things that involve only math (algorithm/signal processing) etc… are more versatile because it is somewhat technology independent: doesn’t depend on what the current hardware looks like, all those ideas are transferable.
Concentrate on getting into a solid undergraduate program (most ABET programs are solid). Graduate school will take care of itself. By the way, you don’t select the grad school; they select you.
In addition to your home states, apply to a private or out-of-state school that you can afford. In addition to U Kentucky and U of Oklahoma, consider the U of Alabama-Tuscaloosa. Also, the South Dakota School of Mines & Technology is a very rigorous university that is very affordable and has a great national reputation among professional engineers.
I am aware of Michigan’s value and I will definitely be applying. However, as an ORM male, I doubt I will receive any merit scholarships from Michigan Engineering - which means I’ll be full-pay in-state.
I had been checking the NPC for what other very selective OOS private colleges (Rice, Vanderbilt, Emory’s Dual Degree Program, USC, etc.) and they might cost a lot less than Michigan IF I get admitted. I may consider these options as well…
Also, are the honors engineering programs at NMS scholarship schools (full-ride/full-tuition at U of Alabama, OU, etc.) worth considering? My understanding is that these schools will award NMF scholarships automatically.
some undergraduate engineering programs have strong robotics - Northeastern for example - plus they are very generous with NMS money (though not tuition). Engineering is usually pretty hard to squeeze in extra minors etc. but I agree with getting in as much advanced math as you can.
Seems like you may want to major in ME, EE, or CS and supplement with relevant electives in the subjects outside your major (including, if necessary, math and/or physics as well as whatever of ME, EE, or CS is not your major).
Yes, at least if you need to start your list with a low cost safety. Be sure to check their offerings in the relevant departments to make sure that they are suitable.
Certainly get a financial safety, but if you can swing the in-state cost of Michigan, I think the chance to excel in a competitive school and do research for one or more rock star faculty members definitely swings in favor of Michigan.
PhD admissions are made by the faculty themselves. When you apply to grad schools, you have to write a statement of purpose and discuss the research of several professors in the departments with an eye to what you might do. The most important factor is your letters of recommendations. Professors don’t want a lot of risk and the ones in the top schools don’t have to take a lot of risk. Getting recommendations from people who themselves are highly respected carries a lot of weight.
It’s not unheard of for graduates of schools like Alabama to get into top programs, but doing well at Alabama and doing well at Michigan don’t send the same message that you’re a rising rock star yourself.
Keep in mind that faculty members at many schools (particularly at “top” schools") are averse to admitting applicants from their own undergraduate departments into their university’s graduate engineering program. They prefer to diversify the gene pool, so to speak. Students who get their science or engineering MS or PhD from their undergraduate alma mater are relatively uncommon. Not unheard of but uncommon.
^ That really depends on the school and the professor. Nevertheless, people do post-doc in the same institute that granted the PhD is not a good sign for future career. I do know at least a few students who got accepted into the PhD program of UMich after finishing undergrad degree there within the past year. One choose to go to Princeton instead though.
, billcsho, the top student in my son’s grad program, is doing postdoc at same U. He is on a very good path. This may not be the norm, but this kid is outstanding.
If you are a junior in high school, you have time to decide whether path includes a PhD. Look for a college that has a variety engineering programs and ability to transfer easily from one to another. After you learn more of your preferences, you campus adviser should be able offer good guidance.