Best path to take?

Student Lounge International Students
1

Hello everyone! I made a post a while ago asking for guidance regarding my future, but didn’t get some stuff clear and some things have changed in my life.

So I would like to study in an american college. I am fully aware of how competitive this is. I have a 3.8 GPA, will take the ACT in September (with solid hopes of getting a 29-30 score) and have a lot of extracurriculars, many of which I did during an exchange year in the United States the last 2015-2016 school year.

I just got finished with HS over here in Spain with excellent grades. I now need to take the ACT and apply to american universities this fall. However, my mom would hate that I take a year off doing nothing in the meantime. In my post, some people told me that’s the best thing to do. I want to apply as an incoming freshman, because I fully depend on financial aid (my family would be able to afford, at most, around 5000 dollars a year). I wanna get two things clear, because I need to make some decisions this week regarding my near future:

  • With the stats I mentioned before, are there any colleges I can actually get full rides at?
  • During this year, could I start college here in Europe (say in Barcelona) while applying as a freshman? I know the systems are different, so I am wondering if I could just "let go" of my first year of european college, not count it since it was not even finished, and still apply as a freshman. I need to know this because since my family doesn't want me to not "learn anything" for a year, I could just start college here, apply to american universities, then start college the next year there if I get into any with full rides. Should I not get admitted into colleges, I could just keep going with my european education (ugh.

I know it sounds foolish, but this is a dream of mine, and even if my chances are low, I wanna know about it and think around my way of getting to america. There are many personal reasons for this.

Thanks in advance to everyone-

2

If you really want to study in America – and need financial aid – do not start your studies in Spain.

There is practically no financial aid for transfer students – and American schools WILL consider you a transfer student. Lying about it on applications could result in you having your acceptance/admission rescinded.

Here are two lists with schools that award generous/automatic scholarships, many of them also for international students. Please note, that these awards change every year, and this list is at least a couple years old. So you must check on every school’s website to see if/how their scholarships have changed.

http://automaticfulltuition.yolasite.com/
http://competitivefulltuition.yolasite.com/

To increase your chances of getting in with enough financial aid, target lesser-known schools in parts of the country that aren’t as popular with international students – meaning, the American south, central states (usually called the mid-west) and Western states such as Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, Arizona or New Mexico. Feel free to ask about individual school’s reputation here or in the Parents Forum.

3

I agree with @katliamom.

One other possibility: You could go to university in Spain (or Europe), but do a year abroad in the US.

4

Hey there! It takes exceptional stats to get merit scholarships and unfortunately those stats normally don’t go very far for scholarships. You will never see “full rides” mostly full tuition. In many cases room and board will he around 12-14k a year plus travel costs and books. If your family can only afford $5k where is the rest going to come from? I hate to be buzzkill but it may be best to go to school in Spain.

5

Now now – there is no need to be so negative, y’all. You definitely have a shot! I know several people at my school who made it with not-so-great test scores, and they receive substantial financial aid. Yes, it is competitive, but it’s definitely worth a shot. Look into liberal arts colleges that offer financial aid that meet 100% of how much you NEED; they are several, but of course they are very competitive (start with say, Reed, Hamilton, Vassar, Grinnell, Kenyon). If you are female, look at ALL of the women’s colleges as well, and consider applying Early Decision to one of them to maximize your chances.

Don’t spend a year doing nothing; teach, enroll in NON-university coursework, or engage in an internship or volunteering opportunity. You need to tell the adcom what you are up to for the year. You should NOT declare that you have taken classes at any university if you want to apply as a first-year student. It is actually quite common among international students to enroll at a local university and apply to US universities alongside, and quit when they are admitted to a US school.

6

Okay, thanks everyone- so no college in Spain at all. Now, looking through @katliamom ‘s lists, I saw many potential colleges with plenty of aid, but it seems like a 30 in the ACT is in most cases the minimum requirement. Like I said, I hope to get around a 30, maybe 31-32, but I am pretty sure there is no way I can get like a 34, 35, 36. This would be putting me at the bottom of the lists, right?
I will me looking at what @International95 said. I am pretty confident in this.
During this year, since I can’t take college classes, I will probably take an Insurance Brokerage course, which I would need in the future in case my mom (who is an insurance entrepreneur) retires. I have also looked for internships or volunteering opportunity, but I can’t seem to find many things here around the EU. It seems like internships are only for college students or even graduates. Not for high school graduates.
In case I ever consider @DadTwoGirls’ idea, I have another question which might be a bit tricky. My life goal is to eventually get a job and emigrate to the United States, whether it is on a job visa, through the DV Lottery, studying or any other way. Now, I am pretty sure that achieving this goal would be much much easier if I attend college in america from the very beggining. If I don’t, and instead I do a school year abroad (which many colleges offer it), or do my master’s or doctorate in the US with a fullbright scholarship, will I get way way lower chances of moving to America? Will I get any at all?

7

Immigration to the US is a huge issue… studying here as an undergrad may give you some advantage in terms of developing some professional connections through OPT… BUT unless you have a highly sought-after skill (computer science for example) chances are you won’t find an employer willing to sponsor you for a work visa and you will have to leave the U.S. after that.

Most international students get to stay in the U.S. either by going to graduate school or by marrying an American.

It IS easier to be able to stay in the U.S. if you have a graduate degree… but it is still very, very competitive.

Frankly, with the current president, no one knows what the situation will be like for international students, those on work visas, or those wanting to immigrate.

8

everything @International95 said is spot on. You have a shot, take it on! With your level of need, your best hope will be the top tier schools, and though it IS extremely competitive, you should still give it a go and apply. Again, I can’t stress enough on finding colleges that meet 100% of demonstrated need, because those will be your saving graces. The catch is that you would need to raise that ACT to a 34+ to be confident that your score is not holding you back, and also you’d need to make sure your essays are stellar. Your GPA is in range I think, so that’s ok. {[edit] just realized you said a 34 might be unattainable for you. To that I say don’t worry, I describe a 34+ as “safe” (I use safe here very cautiously), but it’s entirely possible to get into these top tier schools with a 30-33, and entirely possible to not get in with a 34+. The process is holistic; it very rarely comes down to who got a 33 vs a 34.
In my country, it is very common for students to enroll at a local university and then just up and quit and leave to start as a freshman at the US college they’re accepted to. I will NOT recommend that though.

9

@katliamom I know immigration is a huge issue, and specially right now. I’ve met some people that with hard work and time got to live in the US. I may or may not be able to stay once I graduate, but attending college is a huge step, and the plan is to keep working towards moving the America.

Now, thanks for all the details, @IntEph2019 . I will work very hard on the ACT then, but as you said, I am guessing my GPA, extracurriculars and potential essays could also be important in the process. I will take that shot then.

Just out of curiosity, what country are you from and why would you not recommend doing that thing you mentioned?

Thanks again to everyone for reaching out and helping me out. I truly appreciate it.

10

Enrolling in a local uni for a year involves staying completely hush hush about that to the 10+ colleges you’ll be applying to. You can certainly pull that off; I’ve heard of it happening many times before. However, it’s also risky and I’m just very cautious about these things.

11

In this modern day of social media, it is increasingly easy for word of previous university enrollment to leak out. Colleges and universities in the US take that kind of thing very seriously as lying about previous enrollment is a clear indicator that the student lacks personal and academic integrity. Students can be expelled, or even have their degrees rescinded years after completion.

12

The world of America is one of promise, and to be honest, attending an expensive liberal arts college that funds the majority of your costs is an incredible blessing. The kind of education you can find at one of these schools is completely unparalleled by most schools in Europe. As my French professor says, good liberal arts colleges in America are basically undergraduate flavors of ENS in France; what’s amazing is that there are so many and they are so ripe with promise and opportunity and offer such a transformative approach to educating you. There are no guarantees afterwards, but there are fringe-benefits: the OPT program, for instance. Finding a job in the US is hard, but having 3 years of work permission as a STEM major is a good bet that you will find experience and money and inventiveness to stay in the US. Often with that much experience, particularly if it is in technology, you may find employers who would sponsor you for a green card. And if you do get a PhD in a STEM subject, your odds are good for applying for the National Interest Waiver and applying for a green card. Or you know, you could fall in love and get married. Anything is possible.

Do not apply to the green card lottery program; the US consular office could use that as a sign that you want to immigrate there. They are responsible for sussing out whether you have the intention of returning to your country or not, and that would be a red flag.

I would say try to get around a 31/32 for the ACT. A 30 is OK, but a 32 is SOLID. After that point, your test scores don’t matter anymore. What matters is how you present yourself in your essays and things like that (including your application; don’t hand-wave away descriptions of the activities you undertook in high school.) Lucky for you there aren’t an awful number of international students from Spain, so it may be slightly easier to get into some schools. I highly recommend applying Early Decision to a decent liberal arts college. From what I know, there are several schools that are keen on admitting international students early (like Reed and Hamilton do, as does Vassar) but there are others that prefer to look at the whole pool (Kenyon). You will have to work hard to look at these patterns and make a strategic decision, factoring in fit. It will be important to note that some schools look at Reading scores with a close eye, while others are more lax about them. In the end, you need to make a case for yourself, show interest in the school (applying Early Decision, asking meaningful questions to admissions officers), and hope for the best.

At the same time, you need to apply to 20 schools. It’s expensive, so I would advise asking for fee waivers, which are easy to get. This is to improve the probability that you will get into at least one school with $$. Also look at merit options; you have a decent GPA and with a decent test score you could make something happen. There aren’t a lot of merit options at LACs, but there are schools in the US that offer hefty merit aid, like the University of New Orleans and the University of Alabama.

This is a hard path you are taking, but it is definitely possible to make it through to the other side. I didn’t have a spectacular high school record, but I made it. Several of my friends made it. And I wouldn’t have it any other way. I mean, it’s not supposed to be easy. I’ve met a lot of young people from Spain who are unemployed; there are so few jobs there. But I don’t feel that way in the US. It’s hard, no doubt, but something will work out if you try hard enough. I don’t plan to stay here after I graduate, but people who want it badly enough often make it happen–mostly through legal means.

Also don’t get too mired in collegeconfidential speak. For international students seeking financial aid, all schools that promise to meet need are a solid reach.

13

Also: if you’d like the American college experience in Europe, I would recommend looking at Bard College Berlin. It is a liberal arts college through and through, and has lots of scholarship opportunities.

14

“will take the ACT in September”

Two words that I have not seen in this thread: Test Preparation.

I am not sure what sort of ACT preparation classes or tutoring is available in Spain, or what it costs. However, it is common here in the US for students to take classes to prepare for the ACT or SAT, to read books, and/or to get a tutor. The tutor is the most expensive of the options. Where we live SAT classes are available at the local community center and are very reasonably priced.

IMHO test preparation only prepares you for the test, and doesn’t do much else. Thus it might be a better world if no one did it. However, preparation does significantly increase the scores that students get on the tests, and therefore is important if you want to be on an even playing field compared to other students. As such, if you can find classes in Spain that are reasonably priced you probably should consider taking one.

15

SLU has a Madrid campus and for some majors, they have a 2+2 program where you transfer to St. Louis after 2 years in Spain, but cost may be an issue.



If you want to try to stay in the US long-term, honestly, getting a graduate degree is the best bet, but that is still difficult.



Thus, it almost doesn’t matter (other than the quality of the education) where you go to undergrad.

16

@DadTwoGirls “I will work very hard on the ACT then” is in my third post. This implies that I will of course take time to thoroughly prepare myself for the test. I will attend classes, most likely given by the SLU Madrid Campus and also use internet resources. It was the plan from the very beginning

Now, what @International95 said is just what I had been thinking for a long time. When I studied my junior year in America, I realized many things that led me to want to study and make a living there sometime in my life. Many people disagree with me, and that’s okay, but I strongly believe that today a college education in America is valued much more around the world than, say, a Spanish degree. The financial crisis is still strong in my country (and even in some other countries), and I know very few people who got a job (any job, whether it is related to what they studied or a minimum wage job) shortly after graduating. In other words, spaniards are wasting 4 years of their life short term.
A year in the United States was enough for me to really appreciate most of the real and important differences between America and Europe, and those are mostly education, living, and work related. It was very frustrating to think that, once I got done with High School back in Spain, I would have to study there four years only to not get a job and struggle to find a living on my own. I know it sounds dramatic, but it is true. And seeing that I had a chance at studying outside home, and more specifically in the States, I decided I wanted to take it.

This sure is a hard path, but it is a good one. Whether in the future I achieve my goals or not, I still have a shot at it, and will never lack perseverance in trying. If I posted this here, it is because I really wanna work hard for it, and I need as much help as I can get from people who know deeply about this. I will take my ACT very seriously and then work hard on my college search, and later on my applications and essays.

It seems like these days I finally convinced my mother to allow me to take a year and try to do this. Any further information or help will be greatly appreciated. Thank you so, so much to everyone out there giving all kinds of info to me, whether it is to support me on this or to advise me against the dangers I might face.

17

As the poet says, “in dreams begins responsibility,” and you’re taking that responsibility seriously. You sound like a mature, focused young person. So I’ll just add: good luck, may it all work out for the best for you.

18

There’s nothing that says you absolutely have to get a job out of undergrad in Spain if you can get in to a fully-funded grad program.





Granted, those are very tough to get in to.



BTW, if you attend classes at SLU-Madrid, you can kiss your dream of undergrad in the US goodbye unless you can afford the SLU US costs.

19

As others have said, do not go to college in Spain or in any other country this year. If you do, you will have to apply as a transfer student.



There are no guaranteed safeties for an international student seeking a full ride or a lot of aid, so you will have to apply to as many schools and scholarships as you possibly can. Apply to schools that are below your score range. Apply to schools that people in your country might not have heard of. And work very hard to prepare for your ACT. (You should consider taking the SAT as well, since you might be more comfortable with one test over the other.) Most schools release average test scores from their accepted students, typically in a 25% ~ 75% range format. Your score will have to be very close to, or exceed, the 75% average to hope for aid.



And pro tip from another international student: do not, I repeat, do NOT tell anyone about your dream to stay and emigrate to America. When you go in for your visa interview, and when you have to answer questions from customs & border patrol officers when you fly into the states, if you even so much as imply that you want to stay in the US after graduation or to eventually become a citizen, you WILL get denied your visa or entry into the US.

20

Got it everyone, thanks again for all the help. I’ll try to reach out in the future if I have any success!