Hi everyone - this is my first post. Sorry to be long.
My son is a junior and we are trying to narrow down his list for next year.
Son is an excellent ‘cellist with straight A’s and decent scores. He doesn’t want to pursue music professionally (relief) and knows he wants a broad liberal arts education. But he wants a place where he will be able to play in a wonderful orchestra, find other musicians for regular chamber music, perform in pit orchestras and operas and composers’ concerts and whatever else comes his way.
I play the viola and was in exactly the same situation. I went to Yale and it was perfect for me: I took some music classes but didn’t major in music and had dozens of opportunities to play with extremely high-quality musicians. He’ll be applying there, but of course he needs other options, as it’s far from a sure thing.
He wants a larger school, as he’s currently in a high school of 3,400 kids and does not want to go to a college smaller than that. And preferably on the East coast — we live in southern California and he does NOT want to stay here.
Right now, if I had to guess, his list would look something like:
Yale
Columbia
Brown
Cornell
Penn
Northwestern
Amherst (maybe)
UC Berkeley
UC Santa Cruz (safety)
Our understanding is that while there are lots of liberal arts schools and broad academic universities with good music programs, at most of them you actually have to be a music major to participate in the higher-level ensembles, thus eliminating places like Oberlin. Northwestern may actually fall into that category too.
Well his desire to NOT stay in S. Cal is blinding him to the fantastic Thorton School of Music at USC.
He does NOT have to be a music major there to participate in any of the numerous music venues- he only has to audition.
The U of Chicago might be another option for him, but it is only a little larger than his HS.
Northwestern is not welcoming to non music majors who want to be able to play along side MM’s.
DS was also interested in being able to continue his music studies in college.
He was not impressed with Brown’s music Dept.
He ended up at USC, and was glad he did, though he was unable to do much with music because of class conflicts with the classes needed in his major.
That happens with a lot of non music majors.
Your DS will have to be a lot more flexible, and add a lot of other colleges, as 8 out of the 9 colleges on that list are extreme reaches for anyone, including legacy’s.
This comes up all the time on the music major forum. There are many threads addressing this with lots of suggestions. What does your son want to study? For the most part he’ll want to avoid schools which have a school of music although if he’s exceptional he might be able to audition into the top orchestras.
I would add Tufts to your list for a northeast large university with a good music program but no school of music. If he’s into science, add MIT. Emory in the south.
Definitely head over to the Music Major forum and browse through the threads starting from the top.
Tufts is kind of unusual in that it has both its own program and a dual degree partnership with a conservatory (NEC). Students not enrolled in the conservatory program can take a few courses at the conservatory - with permission. The general culture of the music department is one of “inclusivity” rather than exclusivity. They say that 3,000 students participate in their programs and classes each year. Tufts’ undergrad population is just over 5,000, so it is on the low side of your range. Tufts is the largest NESCAC school, Wesleyan is next at about 3,000 undergrads. Middlebury has about 2500 and Amherst and Bates are the smallest at about 1800 undergrads.
Do take a look at Saint Olaf (and listen, and ask on the music forum or @rayrick whose child was a bit in your shoes) - not the size and location he wants, but nice college town and FANTASTIC music with no conservatory - strong musicians who want to major in something else can even apply for music scholarships. He’d need to express interest by filling the 'request info ‘asap’.
UPuget Sound, Luther would be absolute safeties if he shows basic interest.
If adventurous, and not afraid of real winters, consider McGill University in Montréal and the University of Toronto. Low international tuition of about C$ 18,000/year.
While it is true that we just went through this process (my S is headed to U. of Puget Sound next fall, with St. Olaf one of his finalists), our focus was on LACs, and it sounds like your son really wants a bigger school. So I’m afraid you’re outside my rather narrow area of expertise.
Wesleyan might be worth looking at. It is about the same size at his high school, but that makes it far larger than Amherst. It is close to NY and New Haven, as well. Strong arts programs–and while not a safety school by any means, it is less of a lottery than the uber-elites.
Wesleyan’s music department has a lot of strengths, but my impression is classical is not their strong suit. That was certainly the case when I was there, many years ago.
In the case of Shepherd, I think that’s an example, like Oberlin, or Rochester/Eastman, where it’s pretty much a separate entity, and if you haven’t been admitted to the conservatory/School of Music, you can’t take lessons with the faculty there or participate in their ensembles. You pretty much have to look at each specific school to figure this out. I usually learned it by going to the music department/school/conservatory web page, clicking on the “ensembles” link that they all seem to have, and then the orchestra, and then reading the description. The inclusive schools will say words like “Auditions are open to all members of the community”.
As far as whether you can study with the elite music faculty, I either called departments or actually emailed professors. The guy at Oberlin told me flatly that he doesn’t teach students who aren’t in the conservatory. The folks at Bard said, well, maybe, but they wouldn’t facilitate that, we’d have to contact the individual professors and see if they’re willing to arrange something privately (basically, they’ll treat you the same as any other Joe off the street who contacted them looking for lessons).
The problem then is, if you want to take private lessons at one of these places, what are typically on offer as instructors are conservatory grad students. Some of those may be great, but we often felt like they would actually be a step down from some of the pros who teach at the more inclusive places. So, for a non-performance major kid, the more elite places ended up being less attractive to us.
Know that at Yale, which does have a School of Music, but only for graduate students, the music teachers for undergrads are generally grad students. It’s an exceptional player who gets to study with professors from the School of Music. Also, while Bard gave @rayrick that info about studying with the Conservatory professors, what might not have been clear is that private lessons are available to the college students, majoring or not in music, from very reputable musicians who are either full time or adjunct faculty in the college. But that’s moot, because Bard is smaller than the OP’s S is looking for. It’s more difficult to find a large university without a school of music - asides from the Ivies and a few others. Tech schools. Liberal arts consortiums such as the Claremont colleges. However, sometimes at a large university with a school of music, the orchestra for the non music majors can also be at a high level, if the pool they’re pulling from is large enough.
“In the case of . . . Rochester/Eastman . . . if you haven’t been admitted to the . . . school of music, you can’t take lessons with the faculty” (#14)
This is from Choosing the Right College:
“Because of the presence of the Eastman School, Rochester offers a level of musical instruction and appreciation that may be unsurpassed at liberal arts colleges (as opposed to conservatories or music schools). Every student of ‘intermediate’ ability is offered free tutoring in his musical area, whether or not he is a student at the Eastman School . . . Both the Eastman School and the River Campus have fine student ensembles and orchestras . . .”
@merc81 Those lessons will probably be with a grad student from Eastman. That’s not to say that’s an entirely bad thing - grad students at elite conservatories are going to be some of the best in their field. How good they’ll be as teachers is an unknown.
@SpiritManager : Your knowledge may supesede that of the referenced guide. However, it further states, “Hence, an economics major with past training in the flute can get further instruction in the instrument from a top music professor.”
@merc81 - from the University of Rochester’s FAQ’s for music lessons:
Who teaches the individual studio lessons for River Campus students?
The majority of instruction is provided by Graduate Teaching Assistants who have been selected for that assignment by the performance departments at Eastman. Each TA is assigned a faculty supervisor who monitors the operations of the lesson program in his/her area. Faculty supervisors organize the audition process for accepting new students and
arrange for the jury exams in the spring semester. Supervisors are assigned to mentor the TAs over the course of the year.
In some exceptional circumstances, a River Campus student may be assigned to individual studio lessons with a faculty member at Eastman. This requires the approval of the Associate Dean of Academic and Student Affairs and would be based on (1) an outstanding audition along with documentation of significant prior study, and (2) available time in a faculty member’s studio teaching load.
